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8700 and D70 announcements

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Ching-Kuang Shene

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Hi,

Phil just posted the announcement of the 8700 and D70 (as well as other stuffs). Here is the 8700 http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012805nikoncp8700.asp Now AF assistant lamp is available (why not, since SQ started this trend), and flash may still be the not-so-welcome non-TTL metering. It appears to me that this 8700 is a stuffed 5700, very disappointed. On the other hand, the D70 is really impressive. See here http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012806nikond70.asp I really like the 3D color matrix metering that was only available on the high end cams such as the F5. It supports i-TTL. Selling for $1000-, which makes me to think the D70 is more valuable than the 8700.

CK
 
That was my impression also- D70 looks impressive, the 8700 will just be noisier 5700.

Comparing the two cameras points to the future of digital cameras- the days of the 8700s and 828s are numbered, since you can now get the "real thing" for almost the same price. But we could have predicted that from the start by looking at the film camera world. You have nice SLRs, cheap point and shoots, and little in between.

Nick
Ching-Kuang Shene said:
Hi,

Phil just posted the announcement of the 8700 and D70 (as well as
other stuffs). Here is the 8700
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012805nikoncp8700.asp Now AF
assistant lamp is available (why not, since SQ started this trend),
and flash may still be the not-so-welcome non-TTL metering. It
appears to me that this 8700 is a stuffed 5700, very disappointed.
On the other hand, the D70 is really impressive. See here
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012806nikond70.asp I really
like the 3D color matrix metering that was only available on the
high end cams such as the F5. It supports i-TTL. Selling for
$1000-, which makes me to think the D70 is more valuable than the
8700.

CK
Click to expand...
 
Hi CK-
and Still no manual focus ring
on the cp8700.. Oh well, thats what
the D70 was created for :)

But that aside,
they have stuffed the preprogrammed
photo settings the cp4500 has, as you
noted the focus light assist. So
they got it 99%. Hopefully the
sony 828 problems don't appear
with this 8mp digicam....

The D70 looks like a real winner-
i can hear my wife and conscience
now saying ' ...not another camera,
please stop the insanity....' :)

js
Ching-Kuang Shene said:
Hi,

Phil just posted the announcement of the 8700 and D70 (as well as
other stuffs). Here is the 8700
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012805nikoncp8700.asp Now AF
assistant lamp is available (why not, since SQ started this trend),
and flash may still be the not-so-welcome non-TTL metering. It
appears to me that this 8700 is a stuffed 5700, very disappointed.
On the other hand, the D70 is really impressive. See here
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012806nikond70.asp I really
like the 3D color matrix metering that was only available on the
high end cams such as the F5. It supports i-TTL. Selling for
$1000-, which makes me to think the D70 is more valuable than the
8700.

CK
Click to expand...
 
Yobria said:
Comparing the two cameras points to the future of digital cameras-
the days of the 8700s and 828s are numbered, since you can now get
the "real thing" for almost the same price. But we could have
predicted that from the start by looking at the film camera world.
You have nice SLRs, cheap point and shoots, and little in between.
Click to expand...
In fact, I believe the high-end segment of consumer digicams such as the 8700, F828 and Minolta A1 will soon disappear just as you point out. This is very similar to the high end rangefinder cameras. How many are still there? Moreover, the D70 and a D60/65 that may appear in the not so distant future, many SLR users will replace their SLR with DSLR cameras. The 8700/F828/A1 class cameras will be reduced significantly. Perhaps, this is the major reason both Canon and Nikon did not release anything as good as the F828 and A1. Otherwise, these cameras will eat into their ambitious DSLR segment. But, who knows. Nikon may have something similar to the A1 or F828 down the road. After all, they can fix a reasonable focal length lens on a low-end body and sell for an incredibly low price. Well, if those who believe size, weight and convenient are important may force Nikon to continue with some camera like the 5400. On the other hand, I believe the 4500 type camera may still be very strong in the near future.

CK
 
john:
johns165440 said:
The D70 looks like a real winner-
i can hear my wife and conscience
now saying ' ...not another camera,
please stop the insanity....' :)
Click to expand...
I plan to tell my wife the following tomorrow morning: honey, since your N80 is getting old and out-dated and out-classed, why don't you buy a D70 and share my D100 and F5 lenses and I will carry the lenses for you? This may work. He he hehe.

CK
 
The D70 looks more tempting than the EOS but it only has a 12 bit converter where many have 14bit. This seems to be a key to smoother colors and sharper images. I don't know for sure. Phil doesn't have the usual comparison up. I'd love to see it against the EOS AND the D100.

I hear the EOS has some to be desired. But if you only have $1200 (The price of my 5700 new) you can have a nice camera and lens to boot.
The 7800 looks like 8 pounds of poo in a 6lb bag. We'll see won't we.
--
Michael,
SHooT FIRST, Ask questions later.
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Fuji S2Pro w/Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/APO, Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/f4-ASP, Fuji 4900, Olympus E-10 & D-600L.
 
Dell sometimes has these online coupons that bring a total price down anywhere from 5% to 30% off the MSRP.

I bought my CP5700 this way...

Many people purchased their Digital Rebels from dell for about $800.00 (WITH lens!) that way.

--
Proud new owner of a Coolpix 5700!

Please visit my gallery @ http://imageevent.com/aceattorney
 
Ching-Kuang Shene said:
On the other hand, I believe the 4500 type
camera may still be very strong in the near future.
Click to expand...
Well, the 4500 is effectively discontinued (very few places still carry it) and there have been no successors for the swivel-body series announced so far. It's been over a year and a half since the 4500's debut... it's a shame that Nikon hasn't been keeping this series updated.

DaShiv
 
CK,

I read these annoucements the same way you do: the 8700 is a somewhat marginal improvement over the 5700, similar to what the 5400 was to the 5000 (some users argue that the 5000 was better). The same new features that found their way into the 5400 are now in the 8700: AE-BSS, video 640x480, scene modes, bigger buffer, etc... Of course, the AF-assist lamp that everyone was begging for is there too. However, still no manual zoom or manual focus rings... that probably would have been too much of a redesign of the lens assembly, which seems to be unchanged from the 5700, and why not, it's a great lens.

On the D70 front, I am actually delighted to see what Nikon has done here and is right in line with what I was thinking in early December: the D100 has essentially become irrelevant. Sure, anyone with one has no reason to get rid of it for a D70, but for a new DSLR user, would you still get a D100? Not me. See my earlier thoughts here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=6878705

Finally, that Coolwalker image databank sure looks nice, and a much better solution (on paper at least, let's see the reviews) than an iPod with the Belkin card reader, which I thought was a great application for an iPod, but somewhat poorly executed... If Nikon got this right, I sure want a Coolwalker, so I don't need the laptop as much! :-)
--
Philippe
http://proger.home.netcom.com
 
2.5 inches still seems pretty small to me. And with a 30GB hard drive in it, I'm guessing it will run at about $400.00 - $500.00.

I'd much rather buy a nice PDA that plays MP3's, has a bigger screen, and does a heck of a lot more, for about the same price. Sure, no hard drive, but that's what our flash cards are for anyway, right?

--
Proud new owner of a Coolpix 5700!

Please visit my gallery @ http://imageevent.com/aceattorney
 
If Nikon did serious work on speeding up the 8700 it should be very nice. It would have been great if they had gone to a 1" sensor along with the move to 8 MP to keep the noise low. Oh well, even if they don't sell like as much as an 828 they should do well on the margin using the existing body.
 
What you say makes sense but. People don't make sense. Look at the people that just bought the 5700. Others will take advantage of sales of lower priced 5700 (If the price drops from this release). The Fuji S602Pro actually went UP in price as people shyed away from 5700 when scared by reports of focus problems and other rumors. I paid $550 for a Fuji S602Pro and sold it for $600, 6 months later. I paid $1200 for a 5700 and sold it for $550, 8 months later. Apples to oranges, right?

Too many people don't know that a huge 8MP sensor and lots more pixels won't fix things like processing, Slow lenses and low light image noise. It simply hakes an 8MP poor image.

I'm not saying the D70 OR the 8700 will be bad cameras. It's just that many people thing more pixels fix anything. They do not.

Ching-Kuang Shene --
Michael,
SHooT FIRST, Ask questions later.
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
†
Click to expand...
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Fuji S2Pro w/Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/APO, Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/f4-ASP, Fuji 4900, Olympus E-10 & D-600L.
 
Hi,

In fact, it is pretty much the even that the CP5700 but the 8 Mpixels and some improvements, therefore nothing of very new.
Ching-Kuang Shene said:
Hi,

Phil just posted the announcement of the 8700 and D70 (as well as
other stuffs). Here is the 8700
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012805nikoncp8700.asp Now AF
assistant lamp is available (why not, since SQ started this trend),
and flash may still be the not-so-welcome non-TTL metering. It
appears to me that this 8700 is a stuffed 5700, very disappointed.
On the other hand, the D70 is really impressive. See here
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012806nikond70.asp I really
like the 3D color matrix metering that was only available on the
high end cams such as the F5. It supports i-TTL. Selling for
$1000-, which makes me to think the D70 is more valuable than the
8700.

CK
Click to expand...
--
Maxime
CP5700
near to Montpellier,
France
 
Michael,
Austin_316 said:
Too many people don't know that a huge 8MP sensor and lots more
pixels won't fix things like processing, Slow lenses and low light
image noise. It simply hakes an 8MP poor image.
I'm not saying the D70 OR the 8700 will be bad cameras. It's just
that many people thing more pixels fix anything. They do not.
Click to expand...
On Steve's site, the street price for a 8700 is $999.95 and the D70 would also be selling, without a lens, at the same price. For those who do care about image quality, once they see the images from a D70, they perhaps would buy it. However, those whose major concerns are size, weight and convenient, especially new buyers, may choice with the 8700. I think this is perhaps part of the Nikon's equation. From 5000, 5700, 5400 and this 8700, it is likely Nikon will not be developing the high end consumer digicam further. Canon seems to follow the same trend. Hmmm, Minolta may sell more A1.

CK
 
I Forgot to mention all the people that want total performance in the tiny 5700 package (not to mention P&S capabilitys). Chang was saying something about dropping Prosumer digitals like the 5700/8700/ 828/ A1... I don't thing it's anytime soon. Too many people want that tiny camera and 6, 7 or 8x zoom. They don't care about tottal control and endless interchangable lenses.
I think Prosumer Digitals are here to stay for longer than many of us think.
Philippe Roger said:
CK,

I read these annoucements the same way you do: the 8700 is a
somewhat marginal improvement over the 5700, similar to what the
5400 was to the 5000 (some users argue that the 5000 was better).
The same new features that found their way into the 5400 are now in
the 8700: AE-BSS, video 640x480, scene modes, bigger buffer, etc...
Of course, the AF-assist lamp that everyone was begging for is
there too. However, still no manual zoom or manual focus rings...
that probably would have been too much of a redesign of the lens
assembly, which seems to be unchanged from the 5700, and why not,
it's a great lens.

On the D70 front, I am actually delighted to see what Nikon has
done here and is right in line with what I was thinking in early
December: the D100 has essentially become irrelevant. Sure,
anyone with one has no reason to get rid of it for a D70, but for a
new DSLR user, would you still get a D100? Not me. See my earlier
thoughts here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=6878705

Finally, that Coolwalker image databank sure looks nice, and a much
better solution (on paper at least, let's see the reviews) than an
iPod with the Belkin card reader, which I thought was a great
application for an iPod, but somewhat poorly executed... If Nikon
got this right, I sure want a Coolwalker, so I don't need the
laptop as much! :-)
--
Philippe
http://proger.home.netcom.com
Click to expand...
YOU GOT IT Philippe, THere is no substitute for a good card reader.

The LAST thing I want to do with a $2000 DSLR (or $1000 P&S) is hook it directly to my PC. I was given an older 2MP camera that was worn out from this. I explained that a card reader would solve the problem.
They bought a new 3MP camera anyway.
--
Michael,
SHooT FIRST, Ask questions later.
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
Philippe Roger said:
†
Click to expand...
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Fuji S2Pro w/Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/APO, Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected], Sigma [email protected]/f4-ASP, Fuji 4900, Olympus E-10 & D-600L.
 
Maxime Muller said:
In fact, it is pretty much the even that the CP5700 but the 8
Mpixels and some improvements, therefore nothing of very new.
Click to expand...
It is a sad announcement to many of us. Isn't it. Many of us expect a general purpose compact SLR-like digicam.

CK
 
aceattorney said:
2.5 inches still seems pretty small to me. And with a 30GB hard
drive in it, I'm guessing it will run at about $400.00 - $500.00.

I'd much rather buy a nice PDA that plays MP3's, has a bigger
screen, and does a heck of a lot more, for about the same price.
Sure, no hard drive, but that's what our flash cards are for
anyway, right?

--
Proud new owner of a Coolpix 5700!

Please visit my gallery @ http://imageevent.com/aceattorney
Click to expand...
Ace,

The point is not so much the 2.5 inch screen: that's a bonus, IMHO and certainly enough to let you see which image(s) you are dealing with. The iPod does not let you SEE the pictures, just load them from a CF card, manage them and upload them to the computer. A 20 GB iPod is $400 and you'll need to fork an additional $100 for the card reader. I am betting that the Coolwalker is cheaper than that by at least $100, for $350-$400. The real plus, in my view, is the ability to play a slideshow on someone's TV while on the go.

A PDA with a 30GB drive is going to cost you way more, and if you don't have a hard disk, how much does it cost to get just 4GB of flash memory? How about just one 1GB, yes around $300 also... I would be just fine with my 5 year old PDA with just 2MB of memory and the Coolwalker, and I have no need for MP3 (but that's just me).

Cheers,
Philippe
http://proger.home.netcom.com
 
Austin316 said:
I Forgot to mention all the people that want total performance in
the tiny 5700 package (not to mention P&S capabilitys). Chang was
saying something about dropping Prosumer digitals like the
5700/8700/ 828/ A1... I don't thing it's anytime soon. Too many
people want that tiny camera and 6, 7 or 8x zoom. They don't care
about tottal control and endless interchangable lenses.
I think Prosumer Digitals are here to stay for longer than many of
us think.
Click to expand...
Well, maybe it is so soon. But, the hottest high-end consumer digcam may not be a Nikon. Don't you think a Panasonic FZ-10 with a monster Leica 15X zoom is more tempting? Many people do. Some people prefer the ergonomic, fast AF and anti-shake features of the A1. So, if Nikon cannot compete in this segment, they might just withdraw and only present something, just something for this segment. This looks like what they are doing.

CK
 
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