Reading mode: Light Dark

Point $ Shoot Pirates

Go to last post
B

BCC

Leading Member
Messages
970
Reaction score
0
Location
Central, TX, US
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
 
... then there isn't much you can do! I think that I would 'bump' into them a time or two ... make them feel as if they are in the way ... if that didn't work, I'd beat them senseless with a lightstand.
Ken
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
--
I don't believe in fate, but I do believe in f/8!
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
 
We always welcome guests and others to photograph alongside us at weddings and other events. Yes they get in the way but they are potential future customers and we make a point of getting along with everyone when we are working. You would be surprisesd at the number of times our good attitude is specifically mentioned when someone is referred to us by a previous customer or sees us working at a job then hires us for their job. YOU need to learn to cope. It is not to your advantage to be adversarial to those around you when working. I frequently feel that the guests photos make us shine when the bride sees our photos after seeing some from the guests. This justifies their decision to spend the money on a professional.

Regards,
W Fenn
http://www.fennfoto.com
 
W Fenn said:
We always welcome guests and others to photograph alongside us at
weddings and other events. Yes they get in the way but they are
potential future customers and we make a point of getting along
with everyone when we are working. You would be surprisesd at the
number of times our good attitude is specifically mentioned when
someone is referred to us by a previous customer or sees us working
at a job then hires us for their job. YOU need to learn to cope. It
is not to your advantage to be adversarial to those around you when
working. I frequently feel that the guests photos make us shine
when the bride sees our photos after seeing some from the guests.
This justifies their decision to spend the money on a professional.

Regards,
W Fenn
http://www.fennfoto.com
Click to expand...
Fenn's Right!

What I try to do is work WITH these other shooters. I get the group where I need them to be and then invite these "Pirates" to shoot close in . Then I set up the composition of the photo how I like it to be and take my shots. It's amazing how well this works. Most guests don't have too much film to shoot so they are happy with their original shots. Using pro lights and radio slaves helps to make your photos unique too. Don.
 
If you are cool to those those ameteur photogs, they will likely refer others to you because they aren't pros, but you are.

--
Jason
 
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
The problem really doesn't exist unless: 1. they are in your way preventing your shots; 2. their flash triggers your strobes. (in which case their shots are worthless because of preflash.)

Talk nicely with them. Usually they aren't fighting you, they just want a shot for themselves. Help them a lijttle and the good PR travels. in the latter case, use a synch cord or IR or radio remote triggers.
--
Growing older is mandatory; growing up is optional!
Joe
 
Love the title of this thread :)

But seriously, I don't view these so-called pirates as much of an issue. I usually politely ask them to wait until I get my shot (so their flashes don't wash it out) and I'll give them a second to get theirs. A good compromise that leaves everyone happy. I don't want any confrontations interfering with my bride and groom's smiles.

I also set up centered causing the budding amateurs to take their pictures from various angles. Not too much worry of them getting a better picture, they will also have issues of people looking at different cameras in the one second I give them to get their own shots.

Stay professional and remember every event, especially weddings contain potential new clients. Don't alienate them.
 
I agree with these other guys that they most likely won't get many if any better shots than the pro and you're going to always have them. I plan to try to learn to be a pro and think if doing a shoot by myself, I might even ask the bride or groom to pick someone to use a simple point and shoot digital camera that I furnish just to give them some extra snapshots. I figure that I couldn't be everywhere or get them all myself. Having them mingle and get shots they know would be of interest and knowing the entire family and the friends could be a big help. You could then give them a CD or DVD of them and maybe even several copies for the family. Have any of you pros ever tried this? Seems like it would be a great little bonus to give them and all it costs you is a few blank discs.

--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
 
Hi Smoke,

I wish you well in your pro endeavor. I wouldn't recommend giving a point and shoot to someone in the crowd. Their guests will already have plenty of point and shoots and will probably give the bride and groom copies anyway.

You should only use good quality equipment when doing events (giving out a point and shoot cheapens the perceived value of what you are charging them for). Have a second shooter attend if you want more candid shots but that shooter should also be using good quality equipment and an eye for the events you are photographing.

Giving out CD's is essentially the same as giving away your negatives, although many people have varying opinions on this. I myself only offer the CD in my biggest packages or for a fee. Remember, relinquishing your negatives not only reduces any chance of you getting reprint orders, it increases the chances of your clients getting their own reprints at Target, Walmart or places similar to that. The reason you don't want that to happen is because those reprints won't look as good as being done at a pro lab and they ultimately reflect your work.
Smoke24 said:
I agree with these other guys that they most likely won't get many
if any better shots than the pro and you're going to always have
them. I plan to try to learn to be a pro and think if doing a shoot
by myself, I might even ask the bride or groom to pick someone to
use a simple point and shoot digital camera that I furnish just to
give them some extra snapshots. I figure that I couldn't be
everywhere or get them all myself. Having them mingle and get shots
they know would be of interest and knowing the entire family and
the friends could be a big help. You could then give them a CD or
DVD of them and maybe even several copies for the family. Have any
of you pros ever tried this? Seems like it would be a great little
bonus to give them and all it costs you is a few blank discs.

--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
Click to expand...
 
W Fenn said:
We always welcome guests and others to photograph alongside us at
weddings and other events. Yes they get in the way but they are
potential future customers and we make a point of getting along
with everyone when we are working. You would be surprisesd at the
number of times our good attitude is specifically mentioned when
someone is referred to us by a previous customer or sees us working
at a job then hires us for their job. YOU need to learn to cope. It
is not to your advantage to be adversarial to those around you when
working. I frequently feel that the guests photos make us shine
when the bride sees our photos after seeing some from the guests.
This justifies their decision to spend the money on a professional.

Regards,
W Fenn
http://www.fennfoto.com
Click to expand...
Joe Peoples writes:

No one gets a good shot, if it turns into a press conference, with many cameras flashing away. I usually ask the other photographers to let me get my shot first (if I've set it up), then I redirect the group, by pointing to the guest's camera who is next in line to take his picture and often coax the group into smiles and laughter. If it's a candid shot in question, it's every man for himself.
 
This is a fine line -- you need to get the pictures you are paid to get, but at the same time, "pushy" pro photographers aren't doing our industry any favors.

When I used to shoot weddings, my rule was to let anybody with a camera shoot right alongside me -- PROVIDED they don't interfere. The moment they started interfering with my work -- by talking to the subjects, or getting in my way, I would politely but firmly ask them to hold off until I was done with my work. This usually worked.

I think we all need to remember that a wedding or sports event is not a photo shoot, and we have to remember not to let our "professionalism" detract from the joy of the event that the invited guests are participating in. In other words, we need to have the skill to get the pictures without becoming prima donnas demanding that everything go our way. Sure, we have an obligation to get good pictures for the bride, groom, family, and friends, but we need to balance that against not ruining the event for the invited guests by being too demanding.

Other than that, shoot formals with studio strobes, soft boxes or umbrellas, and a radio slave, and your pictures will be noticably better than what the others are getting with their point and shoot direct flash. If people can't see the difference between the results you get and the point and shoot shot that uncle Joe took with his Digital Rebel and 420EX flash, you probably don't want them for a customer anyway.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
 
Some good advice, and some excelent perspective, Thanks,
BCC
pgrupp said:
When I used to shoot weddings, my rule was to let anybody with a
camera shoot right alongside me -- PROVIDED they don't interfere.
The moment they started interfering with my work -- by talking to
the subjects, or getting in my way, I would politely but firmly ask
them to hold off until I was done with my work. This usually worked.

I think we all need to remember that a wedding or sports event is
not a photo shoot, and we have to remember not to let our
"professionalism" detract from the joy of the event that the
invited guests are participating in. In other words, we need to
have the skill to get the pictures without becoming prima donnas
demanding that everything go our way. Sure, we have an obligation
to get good pictures for the bride, groom, family, and friends, but
we need to balance that against not ruining the event for the
invited guests by being too demanding.

Other than that, shoot formals with studio strobes, soft boxes or
umbrellas, and a radio slave, and your pictures will be noticably
better than what the others are getting with their point and shoot
direct flash. If people can't see the difference between the
results you get and the point and shoot shot that uncle Joe took
with his Digital Rebel and 420EX flash, you probably don't want
them for a customer anyway.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
 
I gave up using extra photo-slaved flashes in victory lane because of the P&S crowd and now just shoot with one offset flash. I could have banned them from the winner's circle, but now give them business cards instead and have top quality prints and enlargements available for sale/order every week.

Race car winners who bring their own photographers to avoid the cost of buying my photos might never ever see their photos in print because I just might not send those to the media!

I have (rarely) set up shots with my winner's circle sign, checkered flags and trophy girl and let the pushy P$S Pirates shoot and then walked away.

I mostly hold my temper, try to keep smiling, and if anyone gets really obnoxious, beat them with my monopod.

--
Have Camera Will Travel
Kodak Brownie, Speed Graphic, +

'...let us run with patience and perseverance the race that is set before us.' -- Hebrews 12:1
 
excuse moi, when did you come up with this idea? could you please even come up a definition of it clearly?

sorry, I can't help it.
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
--
photobug
 
At my own wedding our photographer was awesome. She would set up the picture and after she had taken her shots she let our family and guests take a few snaps. Then she would go on to her next shot. After awhile the guests get tired and die down anyways.

Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there day not yours.

Justin
photobug said:
sorry, I can't help it.
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
--
photobug
Click to expand...
 
They don’t bother me at all. I often invite them to shoot next to me. I usually just tell them, let me get the shot first and then they can shoot away. All my work is from referrals from previous clients and very good referrals at that. No price checking clients just show me what packages you have and who do I make the check out to? I have a philosophy that, the customer is always right.

Just remember you are not just selling your photography skills, you are selling yourself as a professional.
BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC
Click to expand...
 
jkeitch said:
At my own wedding our photographer was awesome. She would set up
the picture and after she had taken her shots she let our family
and guests take a few snaps. Then she would go on to her next shot.
After awhile the guests get tired and die down anyways.

Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think
you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These
are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there
day not yours.
Click to expand...
Sure Justin.

What I (as a pro) would NOT do is accomodate cheeky amateurs to the camera settings I'm using, etc.

Example: at a wedding recently, the "uncle harry" of the day had an identical high end DSLR to mine. I was shooting with studio lights, witha 1m softbox, barndoors, the whole hog.

He asked if he may take a picture. As I always do, I smiled & said "of course", while switching OFF my studio lights.

The guy almost went beserk.... but in a very soft & astute manner. He asked me why i had switched off the lights, what aperture I was using.

What would you have done?

I pretended to look the other way, looking for the head waiter; when he repeated his request in a more insisting fashion.

Again: Forget your client perspective, imagine you were a pro for a moment.......What would you do?

Remember; I have taken the trouble & time (years) to learn my skills & develop my art; i had taken the trouble to bring & set up MY lights....

......anyway: when I again pretended I was looking the other way, this guy went up to my lights & tried to switch them on. My gosh, what cheek.

"please don't touch my lights", I said. I gently but FIRMLY held his arm, for my request fell on deaf ears.

I proceeded to tear down my setup, explaining to the bride that we were continuing the session in another room. Which I did.

Needless to say, the guy followed. I did the professional thing. I took the matter to the bride. I explained that I found no objection to people shooting pictures, but only after we were ready & NOT with my equipment.

thank goodness the bride put the guy in place with a mildly sarcastic jibe ("Please let me enjoy my wedding, Uncle Harry")

NOW comes the important part of my post. many pros will stop there. WRONG!

After the session i found Uncle Harry, started up a conversation on equipment.....then dropped the bomb.

These "uncle Harry"s don't realise that they are harassing the bride more than anything else. I diplomatically explained that this is THEIR day, & that "I" (ie "he") did not want to ruin it by taking a long time, or ranting over photo technique in front of the couple.

I made sure I said all this in front of other guests; looking at them while speaking to get their consensus. I turned it into a fake "apology" on my part, so that he accepted my words.

Before he could delve iagain into what settings I used, etc.; I excused myself 'cos I was "needed" elsewhere.

the guy did not hassle the couple (or me) anymore, not even during the cake.

Hope this helps.

--
JF
 
Nicely done, well handled Joe. I haven't come across a situation that extreme but I'll definitely remember how you handled this one. Keeping in mind that every wedding contains other potential clients.
Joe Farrugia said:
jkeitch said:
At my own wedding our photographer was awesome. She would set up
the picture and after she had taken her shots she let our family
and guests take a few snaps. Then she would go on to her next shot.
After awhile the guests get tired and die down anyways.

Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think
you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These
are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there
day not yours.
Click to expand...
Sure Justin.

What I (as a pro) would NOT do is accomodate cheeky amateurs to the
camera settings I'm using, etc.

Example: at a wedding recently, the "uncle harry" of the day had an
identical high end DSLR to mine. I was shooting with studio lights,
witha 1m softbox, barndoors, the whole hog.

He asked if he may take a picture. As I always do, I smiled & said
"of course", while switching OFF my studio lights.

The guy almost went beserk.... but in a very soft & astute manner.
He asked me why i had switched off the lights, what aperture I was
using.

What would you have done?

I pretended to look the other way, looking for the head waiter;
when he repeated his request in a more insisting fashion.

Again: Forget your client perspective, imagine you were a pro for a
moment.......What would you do?

Remember; I have taken the trouble & time (years) to learn my
skills & develop my art; i had taken the trouble to bring & set up
MY lights....

......anyway: when I again pretended I was looking the other way,
this guy went up to my lights & tried to switch them on. My gosh,
what cheek.

"please don't touch my lights", I said. I gently but FIRMLY held
his arm, for my request fell on deaf ears.

I proceeded to tear down my setup, explaining to the bride that we
were continuing the session in another room. Which I did.

Needless to say, the guy followed. I did the professional thing. I
took the matter to the bride. I explained that I found no objection
to people shooting pictures, but only after we were ready & NOT
with my equipment.

thank goodness the bride put the guy in place with a mildly
sarcastic jibe ("Please let me enjoy my wedding, Uncle Harry")

NOW comes the important part of my post. many pros will stop there.
WRONG!

After the session i found Uncle Harry, started up a conversation on
equipment.....then dropped the bomb.

These "uncle Harry"s don't realise that they are harassing the
bride more than anything else. I diplomatically explained that this
is THEIR day, & that "I" (ie "he") did not want to ruin it by
taking a long time, or ranting over photo technique in front of the
couple.

I made sure I said all this in front of other guests; looking at
them while speaking to get their consensus. I turned it into a fake
"apology" on my part, so that he accepted my words.

Before he could delve iagain into what settings I used, etc.; I
excused myself 'cos I was "needed" elsewhere.

the guy did not hassle the couple (or me) anymore, not even during
the cake.

Hope this helps.

--
JF
Click to expand...
 
Joe,

amazing story, and you did great: you did handle the situation with class and good diplomacy. I'll learn from your experience.
Thanks for sharing it

what happens to me is more like p&S shooters blocking my shot or standing in front of me, coming over all of the sudden. I believe that fenn's advice is the best: unfortunally it is part of the job and I have to deal with it (better if it will be with a smile of course)

but I keep repeating to myself something like "Im being paid for this, a pro always delivers no matter what".. but sometimes is very difficult to remain calm.
 
This is why I don’t use continues lighting. For formals I use three sunpack 120J with pockets wizards. I highly doubt Uncle Joe will have a pocket wizard in his pocket. This way no one can ride my coat tales with lighting.
Joe Farrugia said:
jkeitch said:
At my own wedding our photographer was awesome. She would set up
the picture and after she had taken her shots she let our family
and guests take a few snaps. Then she would go on to her next shot.
After awhile the guests get tired and die down anyways.

Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think
you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These
are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there
day not yours.
Click to expand...
Sure Justin.

What I (as a pro) would NOT do is accomodate cheeky amateurs to the
camera settings I'm using, etc.

Example: at a wedding recently, the "uncle harry" of the day had an
identical high end DSLR to mine. I was shooting with studio lights,
witha 1m softbox, barndoors, the whole hog.

He asked if he may take a picture. As I always do, I smiled & said
"of course", while switching OFF my studio lights.

The guy almost went beserk.... but in a very soft & astute manner.
He asked me why i had switched off the lights, what aperture I was
using.

What would you have done?

I pretended to look the other way, looking for the head waiter;
when he repeated his request in a more insisting fashion.

Again: Forget your client perspective, imagine you were a pro for a
moment.......What would you do?

Remember; I have taken the trouble & time (years) to learn my
skills & develop my art; i had taken the trouble to bring & set up
MY lights....

......anyway: when I again pretended I was looking the other way,
this guy went up to my lights & tried to switch them on. My gosh,
what cheek.

"please don't touch my lights", I said. I gently but FIRMLY held
his arm, for my request fell on deaf ears.

I proceeded to tear down my setup, explaining to the bride that we
were continuing the session in another room. Which I did.

Needless to say, the guy followed. I did the professional thing. I
took the matter to the bride. I explained that I found no objection
to people shooting pictures, but only after we were ready & NOT
with my equipment.

thank goodness the bride put the guy in place with a mildly
sarcastic jibe ("Please let me enjoy my wedding, Uncle Harry")

NOW comes the important part of my post. many pros will stop there.
WRONG!

After the session i found Uncle Harry, started up a conversation on
equipment.....then dropped the bomb.

These "uncle Harry"s don't realise that they are harassing the
bride more than anything else. I diplomatically explained that this
is THEIR day, & that "I" (ie "he") did not want to ruin it by
taking a long time, or ranting over photo technique in front of the
couple.

I made sure I said all this in front of other guests; looking at
them while speaking to get their consensus. I turned it into a fake
"apology" on my part, so that he accepted my words.

Before he could delve iagain into what settings I used, etc.; I
excused myself 'cos I was "needed" elsewhere.

the guy did not hassle the couple (or me) anymore, not even during
the cake.

Hope this helps.

--
JF
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top