Paul Pope, camera aging and replacement question

I actually meeant that the description on the EOS-3 and 1v shutter is the same of the 10D. The 1D is clearlt different.

Alfred
Even tho the despcritpion of shutters is the same (same type), it
does not mean they are the same quality, unfortunately.

Alfred
As I said I don't agree with this statement.

The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon
developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems,
but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet
shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to
protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this
shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures.

There is no mention of this for the 10D: "Electronically-controlled
focal-plane shutter"

Not the same at all AFAIK.
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
 
I actually meeant that the description on the EOS-3 and 1v shutter
is the same of the 10D. The 1D is clearlt different.

Alfred
No, the EOS 3 and 1V have the same shutter as 1D and 1Ds, the EOS 3 has a lesser specced version, but is the same design. It introduced this shutter mechanism and all pro models since use it. So 10D is not the same as even EOS 3/1V.
 
I wonder whether color shift is caused by either the changing of
the sensitiity of the chip, or the changing of the dye in the CFA?
And would CWB overcome it?
The colour shift on the Kodak cameras was easy to overcome because there was only the option to shoot RAW and the excellent software allowed you to correct colours in the acquire process with little fuss. On the Canon EOS1D cameras I have always found RAW too slow so I use a combination of custom tone curves and Kelvin settings to overcome the colour shift because custom white balance doesn't know that the chips are not perfect colours.

Neil.
--
http://www.dg28.com
 
it looks like marketing talk rather than warranty talk. good luck finding what you want.
But I don't see anywhere on that page where they guarantee the
shutter for 150K.

Will look on your link for the 10D.

Alfred
"Shutter Durability
The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon
developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems,
but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet
shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to
protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this
shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures."
Alfred
lasting about 30,000 but no one can come up with where they have
seen this number. The closest Canon has said is it is much less
than the 150,000 cycles of the 1Ds. Do you have any better
information?
BTW, nice site, with subjects like that I could see how the shutter
would be stressed along with the photographer.
don't know about 30,000 clicks for 10D but there are lots of
reports of D30 and D60 with quite a few more than that--and I have
over 30,000 on my D60.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
Canon rate the shutter of EOS 3 @ 100K, EOS 1V, 1D/1Ds @ 150K. Not
made up at all. Look at a manual for these cameras.
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
--
http://www.pbase.com/joeschmoe
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
--
http://www.pbase.com/joeschmoe
 
the 30k or whatever is reached?

Look at it this way, using a shutter at it's max fps to fill buffer etc would take more of a toll than if you used the digital camera like a film camera and took less shots but more "keepers".

I would think that Paul is erring on the side of caution with his figures as he depends on the cameras for a living but for most amateurs I would think that even 30k on a D60 is a little conservative..

PS I'll let you know when my D60 dies but hopefully not for a few years yet.

I have a white lens (thanks to Tippex !)
 
look at this link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_slr/eos3spec.html

EOS-3:

"Shutter: Type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all
speeds electronically-controlled" - which is the same description
as the 10D.

So no, the EOS-3 (and I believe the EOS-1V) does not have the same
shutter as the 1D.

Alfred
So what does this mean:

The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems, but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures.

Come on read the posts at least.
 
look at this link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_slr/eos3spec.html

EOS-3:

"Shutter: Type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all
speeds electronically-controlled" - which is the same description
as the 10D.

So no, the EOS-3 (and I believe the EOS-1V) does not have the same
shutter as the 1D.

Alfred
Rudy Winston from Canon USA says the 1D has a modified EOS 3 shutter.
So what does this mean:

The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon
developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems,
but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet
shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to
protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this
shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures.

Come on read the posts at least.
 
We all know paul already tried the 1d replacement. Maybe the replacement is that good that they rival the 1ds and paul decided to get rid of the 1ds bodies while he can still get a decent price and already ordered the 1d replacement to replace the 1ds.

hmmm....... I can't wait to see the specs of the 1d replacement.
 
I sold 2 1D bodies and 1 1Ds body .... I am NOT selling anymore bodies as yet.
The 1Ds replacment is a fair ways off lets not get ahead of ourselves.
We all know paul already tried the 1d replacement. Maybe the
replacement is that good that they rival the 1ds and paul decided
to get rid of the 1ds bodies while he can still get a decent price
and already ordered the 1d replacement to replace the 1ds.

hmmm....... I can't wait to see the specs of the 1d replacement.
--
Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
 
We all know paul already tried the 1d replacement. Maybe the
replacement is that good that they rival the 1ds and paul decided
to get rid of the 1ds bodies while he can still get a decent price
and already ordered the 1d replacement to replace the 1ds.

hmmm....... I can't wait to see the specs of the 1d replacement.
--
Gallery at
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'
I don't expect 1Ds replacement for another year. But I want a 10D replacement and a 3D announcement along with new 1D and an improved 300D to take on D70. D70 specs have been leaked and it is quite impressive. Canon will need to keep on it's toes, so fix the 300D.
 
I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.
BTW, I am selling my film bodies if anyone will still be interested after reading what I have to say...

The EOS 1n film body was "tested to" last 100,000 cycles. This means that this is aopparently when they decided that it may not be able to work properly after that point.... Anyway, On my first EOS 1N, I cataloged my many negatgive books filled with file pages of B&W film that I shot for a local newspaper......+ my many ringed binders full of color film that I have filled with color neg film......and my many boxes of slide film in card holders........ I counted over 6,000 rolls of film that I used my 1n body for nearly entirely for. These were added together by 36 exposures......some rolls I rewound early so I figured perhaps 5,500 rolls. This was before I bought a second EOS 1n film body too... I lost track of which camera shot which film after I bought two of them.....which I['ve owned for 3 years now....and hqave shot an additional 2,400 rolls of film on... so, lets say add another 1,000 to be conservative.. Ok..... 1,000 + 5,500 = 6,500 x 36 = 234,000 shots.

My D30 I added up all the images from my old computer that I used to upload pictures on.....I had some twouble with my D30...the hot shoe was loose in the corner...and didn't fire all the time.....which didn't matter all that much because I shoot mostly with studio lighting hooked up to a radio slave 4i set up...and simply popp[ed in a sinc cord to ity aqnd stuck the other end into the PC socket......until that thing just stopped working one day.....and I had to send it in for a repair........and I bought my 10D. I got it back from the shop and they replaced the shutter as well......apparently, the shitter on the D30 is only "tested to" 50,000 cycles... not the 80,000 that I spent an entire day adding up.....counting up all the images in each and every single file..... I wish I wrote down the exact number.....it was amazing!

So, the moral of the story is "Tested to" is a VERY conservative number! I'd bet you it is AT LEAST 1/2 of what the actual performance number really is!

So, if you have to get the shutter replaced for $300.00..........my goodness!! Big deal! ;-)

Oh, here is whaqt my 1n cameras look like today...

http://www.pbase.com/Greco/1n the one on the second page is the oldest one!

JP

--
Check out my nifty website....

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm?P_ID=6108
 
You obviously have not much clue of what you talk about. First you say Canon guarantees the 150K, later you say you never said that. Then you change what type of shutter cameras have. Truly amazing.

Go get you facts straight and then come back to the forum - you sound to flaky.

Alfred
look at this link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_slr/eos3spec.html

EOS-3:

"Shutter: Type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all
speeds electronically-controlled" - which is the same description
as the 10D.

So no, the EOS-3 (and I believe the EOS-1V) does not have the same
shutter as the 1D.

Alfred
So what does this mean:

The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon
developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems,
but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet
shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to
protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this
shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures.

Come on read the posts at least.
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
 
You're right - it is not the same one.

Alfred
look at this link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_slr/eos3spec.html

EOS-3:

"Shutter: Type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all
speeds electronically-controlled" - which is the same description
as the 10D.

So no, the EOS-3 (and I believe the EOS-1V) does not have the same
shutter as the 1D.

Alfred
Rudy Winston from Canon USA says the 1D has a modified EOS 3 shutter.
So what does this mean:

The rotary magnet shutter virtually eliminates failure. Canon
developed the rotary magnet shutter not merely to reduce problems,
but to eliminate the problems altogether. A bladed rotary-magnet
shutter, similar to the ones used in EOS-1v and EOS-3, is used to
protect the CCD and provide timing during longer exposures; this
shutter is durability-tested to 150,000 exposures.

Come on read the posts at least.
--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day
 
Forget the shutter - you must need a finger replacement!!!!

I thought Paul mentioned the replacement decision being more of an economical one in a later post.

Trebor
I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.
BTW, I am selling my film bodies if anyone will still be interested
after reading what I have to say...

The EOS 1n film body was "tested to" last 100,000 cycles. This
means that this is aopparently when they decided that it may not be
able to work properly after that point.... Anyway, On my first EOS
1N, I cataloged my many negatgive books filled with file pages of
B&W film that I shot for a local newspaper......+ my many ringed
binders full of color film that I have filled with color neg
film......and my many boxes of slide film in card holders........
I counted over 6,000 rolls of film that I used my 1n body for
nearly entirely for. These were added together by 36
exposures......some rolls I rewound early so I figured perhaps
5,500 rolls. This was before I bought a second EOS 1n film body
too... I lost track of which camera shot which film after I bought
two of them.....which I['ve owned for 3 years now....and hqave shot
an additional 2,400 rolls of film on... so, lets say add another
1,000 to be conservative.. Ok..... 1,000 + 5,500 = 6,500 x 36 =
234,000 shots.

My D30 I added up all the images from my old computer that I used
to upload pictures on.....I had some twouble with my D30...the hot
shoe was loose in the corner...and didn't fire all the
time.....which didn't matter all that much because I shoot mostly
with studio lighting hooked up to a radio slave 4i set up...and
simply popp[ed in a sinc cord to ity aqnd stuck the other end into
the PC socket......until that thing just stopped working one
day.....and I had to send it in for a repair........and I bought my
10D. I got it back from the shop and they replaced the shutter as
well......apparently, the shitter on the D30 is only "tested to"
50,000 cycles... not the 80,000 that I spent an entire day adding
up.....counting up all the images in each and every single
file..... I wish I wrote down the exact number.....it was amazing!

So, the moral of the story is "Tested to" is a VERY conservative
number! I'd bet you it is AT LEAST 1/2 of what the actual
performance number really is!

So, if you have to get the shutter replaced for $300.00..........my
goodness!! Big deal! ;-)

Oh, here is whaqt my 1n cameras look like today...

http://www.pbase.com/Greco/1n the one on the second page is the
oldest one!

JP

--
Check out my nifty website....

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm?P_ID=6108
 
......apparently, the shitter on the D30 is only "tested to"
50,000 cycles...
MAN! That's a LOT of flushes! ;-)

--
Regards,

Rudi
http://www.rudiphoto.net/
................LOL!

I was wondering ......(if this relates in any way) how many "hits" the space bar on your keyboard is rated to?? I know that some ...like me like to pound the keys......? My DELL's space bar lasted only 2 years.... my 2 year old Powermac G4 is slightly louder....but still very smooth...

I would relate this to the shutter mechanics in cameras..... how many is the max?

My 92 Honda Accord has over 256,000 miles on it right now....but I have heard of people driving them to well over 400,000 miles. (sorry but I'll never buy another American car)

My RB67 was 10 years old when I sold it... I had it overhauled after I somehow managed to jam up the mirror....and I managed to use it for another 6 years after that..

I tell you, good cameras and good products are just made to last longer than what they are suppose to......at least these are my findings! :-)

JP

--
Check out my nifty website....

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm?P_ID=6108
 

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