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Everyone should contact Canon to release FEC controls

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Member said:
I don't think you're correct in that contention. Actually all the
hack does is change the exposure setting by a predetermined amount
which is not controllable in the camera. In other words you have
hacked the camera's software in that one specific way. You have
absolutely no control over it other than connecting it back up to a
computer again to hack it again.That doesn't mean that the facility
is built into the camera hardware or software to provide user
controllable FEC. It only means that you have hacked the exposure
with flash. I'm not sure at all that Canon has the capability for
FEC built into the camera, it is just able to be hacked by a clever
soft ware hacker.--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
--
Since we are both guessing, it is tough to be sure one way or the other.

If FEC correction is just a simple hack, why should we pay hundreds of dollars more for it? That's my basic contention.

It is a simple thing that was intentionally omitted. There is no reason for it not to be included except Canon's desire to limit functionality and therefore have us spend more money. If they charged me $50.00 to update my camera I would just pay, but they require more than that.

Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
 
FECSET is proof. It is only a setting and all the camera needs is a way to control it. Something like this would be very unlikely to need different hardware anyhow, it's just an operating parameter. The same goes for focus modes.

Steve
HRM said:
HRM said:
I don't think you're correct in that contention. Actually all the
hack does is change the exposure setting by a predetermined amount
which is not controllable in the camera. In other words you have
hacked the camera's software in that one specific way. You have
absolutely no control over it other than connecting it back up to a
computer again to hack it again.That doesn't mean that the facility
is built into the camera hardware or software to provide user
controllable FEC. It only means that you have hacked the exposure
with flash. I'm not sure at all that Canon has the capability for
FEC built into the camera, it is just able to be hacked by a clever
soft ware hacker.--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
--
Since we are both guessing, it is tough to be sure one way or the
other.

If FEC correction is just a simple hack, why should we pay hundreds
of dollars more for it? That's my basic contention.

It is a simple thing that was intentionally omitted. There is no
reason for it not to be included except Canon's desire to limit
functionality and therefore have us spend more money. If they
charged me $50.00 to update my camera I would just pay, but they
require more than that.

Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
 
With the Canon Speedlite 550EX you have control of FEC.
HRM said:
I wrote the following letter to Canon and encourage everyone else
to do likewise.

This is the Letter:

I read where the Digital rebel has the ability to do FEC
correction, but the feature was not included on purpose by being
omitted in the user controls. I find that very offensive. To dumb
down a products ability is terrible. It has changed my feelings
toward Canon in general and I am considering making the move to
Nikon.

I have been a loyal Canon user for years, but I will no longer
recommend Canon to my friends. I preorderd the Digital Rebel on
Sept 7th and was a big fan participating on many forums and
encouraging people to spend the $1000 for your product. I will no
longer encourage anyone to buy this camera and look forward to the
D70 when it debutes.

Please notify me if and when you decide a firmware update will
correct this issue. I am not impressed at all with your companies
attitude to your loyal users.

Regards,

*********************

The email I used was [email protected]

If enough people voice thier opinion, a simple firmware version can
correct the problem. I think it is work the time it takes and there
is nothing to lose.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
 
I understand your flustration. I too would love to have not just FEC but also the ability to select metering modes and AF modes.

But I understand that Canon did that for their marketing reasons. After all they are a for-profit organization. They have just followed a formula to maximize the profit. They didn't want to create a product that compete against their more expensive models. This is unavoidable when there is no real competition. I'm sure Canon will be force to change that attitude once Nikon, Pentax and Olympus start shipping their DSLR's in the same price range.

If I was the VP of marketing, here is what I would do.

Make the firmware open-source (except for some IP intensive algorithms), and have enthusiast write their own firmware to customize their machine.

That way, their camera will attract more fans because of the potential for complete customization by an army of volunteer Net programers -- much the same way that Palm got so popular. The advantage of this strategy is that any shortcomings with the firmware can be corrected by anyone who is willing to spend their time and energy on it. This will make their product definately better (instead of their small group of software engineers, they can tap into potentially tens of thousands of talented user-programmers). This will also allow them to focus on hardware development.

Their current strategy of crippling available features to protect existing products, IMO, is a backword and short sighted one.

My strategy will make a big hero out of Canon.

Now Canon, hire me!
HRM said:
I wrote the following letter to Canon and encourage everyone else
to do likewise.

This is the Letter:

I read where the Digital rebel has the ability to do FEC
correction, but the feature was not included on purpose by being
omitted in the user controls. I find that very offensive. To dumb
down a products ability is terrible. It has changed my feelings
toward Canon in general and I am considering making the move to
Nikon.

I have been a loyal Canon user for years, but I will no longer
recommend Canon to my friends. I preorderd the Digital Rebel on
Sept 7th and was a big fan participating on many forums and
encouraging people to spend the $1000 for your product. I will no
longer encourage anyone to buy this camera and look forward to the
D70 when it debutes.

Please notify me if and when you decide a firmware update will
correct this issue. I am not impressed at all with your companies
attitude to your loyal users.

Regards,

*********************

The email I used was [email protected]

If enough people voice thier opinion, a simple firmware version can
correct the problem. I think it is work the time it takes and there
is nothing to lose.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
 
Tom Tanaka said:
I understand your flustration. I too would love to have not just
FEC but also the ability to select metering modes and AF modes.

But I understand that Canon did that for their marketing reasons.
After all they are a for-profit organization. They have just
followed a formula to maximize the profit. They didn't want to
create a product that compete against their more expensive models.
This is unavoidable when there is no real competition. I'm sure
Canon will be force to change that attitude once Nikon, Pentax and
Olympus start shipping their DSLR's in the same price range.

If I was the VP of marketing, here is what I would do.
Make the firmware open-source (except for some IP intensive
algorithms), and have enthusiast write their own firmware to
customize their machine.

That way, their camera will attract more fans because of the
potential for complete customization by an army of volunteer Net
programers -- much the same way that Palm got so popular. The
advantage of this strategy is that any shortcomings with the
firmware can be corrected by anyone who is willing to spend their
time and energy on it. This will make their product definately
better (instead of their small group of software engineers, they
can tap into potentially tens of thousands of talented
user-programmers). This will also allow them to focus on hardware
development.

Their current strategy of crippling available features to protect
existing products, IMO, is a backword and short sighted one.

My strategy will make a big hero out of Canon.

Now Canon, hire me!
Click to expand...
I understand why they did it, it's just that I don't have to like it. I think it is short sighted and hopefully they will correct it. That is a positive and creative thought. Thanks.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
 
No one forced you to buy the 300D. You knew the feature was not there when you bought it.
ToddAP said:
You knew the feature wasn't there when you bought it, if you didn't
then it isn't Canon's fault. Buy a 10D if you need features the
rebel doesn't have.
Click to expand...
 
I feel like I'm quoting myself, but... excellently put!.

I don't want Canon to come
Member said:
with an FEC fix for my camera. Sure I would be glad to have full
FEC capability, but Canon just isn't going to do that. That is not
part of the camera's software setup and never will be. To keep
asking for it is just farting in the wind.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
 
HRM said:
If FEC correction is just a simple hack, why should we pay hundreds
of dollars more for it? That's my basic contention.

It is a simple thing that was intentionally omitted. There is no
reason for it not to be included except Canon's desire to limit
functionality and therefore have us spend more money. If they
charged me $50.00 to update my camera I would just pay, but they
require more than that.

Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
That's a valid point, HRM. The trouble is I have the 10D and it has FEC and I honestly haven't used it because it does just fine pretty much all the time just like the Rebel D has for me. I think some folks just have cameras that apparently underexpose when others don't. When the camera works fine like mine does you just don't have much regard for those whose don't, I guess. From all the complaints about it, I imagine the next model will do something about it along with more selectability for Al Servo. Those are the two primary complaints about the Rebel D, it seems. Neither has impacted me at all so I don't really look forward to changes.
--
Dave Lewis
 
Steve Farley said:
FECSET is proof. It is only a setting and all the camera needs is a
way to control it. Something like this would be very unlikely to
need different hardware anyhow, it's just an operating parameter.
The same goes for focus modes.
Click to expand...
It would need a way to turn it off and on and a way to change its parameters. Of course there is a facility to change its settings already built in with the front wheel and the rear buttons, but there isn't a button to turn it on and off. I forget how the 10D does it. I ought to go down stairs and get the 10D and check, but it's cold down there and I don't want to leave my nice heater, here. (G)
--
Dave Lewis
 
Member said:
It would need a way to turn it off and on and a way to change its
parameters. Of course there is a facility to change its settings
already built in with the front wheel and the rear buttons, but
there isn't a button to turn it on and off. I forget how the 10D
does it. I ought to go down stairs and get the 10D and check, but
it's cold down there and I don't want to leave my nice heater,
here. (G)
Click to expand...
I can't remember the thread, but I once saw a nice Photoshop work of the 4-way controller with the AF and FEC taking up the two empty buttons. Currently, there are only ISO and WB.

Heck, if Canon is even care enough about me, a customer,, I am even willing to dive into the menu just to set these guys. That way, the 10D people won't feel I got something for free...

--
Ray Chen

It's not about the equipment, but even the best photographer can't make a white wall interesting with a pinhole camera.

 
DoctorG1 said:
If you need positive FEC , just point the camera at something
darker than you are shooting , do a FEL and then recompose and
shoot , and vice versa.
Click to expand...
The whole point of FEC is to not to use FEL as often...

--
Ray Chen

It's not about the equipment, but even the best photographer can't make a white wall interesting with a pinhole camera.

 
Agent said:
I don't want Canon to come
Agent said:
with an FEC fix for my camera. Sure I would be glad to have full
FEC capability, but Canon just isn't going to do that. That is not
part of the camera's software setup and never will be. To keep
asking for it is just farting in the wind.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
You guys give up easy and underestimate the power of the masses. The world would never change if everyone gave up before trying and thought they had no control over anything.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
 
Dave Lewis said:
Member said:
If FEC correction is just a simple hack, why should we pay hundreds
of dollars more for it? That's my basic contention.

It is a simple thing that was intentionally omitted. There is no
reason for it not to be included except Canon's desire to limit
functionality and therefore have us spend more money. If they
charged me $50.00 to update my camera I would just pay, but they
require more than that.

Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
That's a valid point, HRM. The trouble is I have the 10D and it has
FEC and I honestly haven't used it because it does just fine pretty
much all the time just like the Rebel D has for me. I think some
folks just have cameras that apparently underexpose when others
don't. When the camera works fine like mine does you just don't
have much regard for those whose don't, I guess. From all the
complaints about it, I imagine the next model will do something
about it along with more selectability for Al Servo. Those are the
two primary complaints about the Rebel D, it seems. Neither has
impacted me at all so I don't really look forward to changes.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
I understand Dave, but one day you may find you do need it. I I only took photos in a well lit low white ceiling room, never used flash for fill on a bright day, I might not need it also. The camera usually does a good job. But believe me, the feature would make better photos underr certain conditions. It seems easy enough to compost a letter and with whatever tone one chooses, to let Canon know the feature is wanted.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
 
Simon wrote:

You post seems more stupid than mine, just don't click on the thread if you don't want to read it, or at least take the time to formulate an opinion and write it in your post. Whatever my opinion is, at least I am trying to make it clear and to improve things for everyone.

I think it's like the story "The empereor has no clothes" Some Drebel owners are afraid to think their camera isn't the greatest. OThers think it is a reasonable thing the omit a feature that is just a simple software change and require you spend hundreds to upgrade. At least those people say why they disagree, not a 12 year old's idea of debate "You're stupid"

Did you sit up all night and write that interesting retort? hehehe
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
 
Timmy42 said:
Wild-Mike said:
There is NO PROBLEM TO CORRECT!!!! The camera was designed that way
and included absolutely no FEC.

Get over it, please!
Click to expand...
I agree whole heartedly. For most people this feature is
completely unnecessary. Even for non-amatures like myself, I would
rarely use FEC. (I don't use flash much anyway) It's time people
stop pining over stuff we don't have, and use what we do have.
Because what we do have is a darn good camera.
Click to expand...
 
I have a Honda Civic. I'm mad as hell because it doesn't have the V6 that the Honda Accord has. I'm going to complain to Honda and demand that they install a V6 engine in my Civic, free of charge of course, even though I knew when I bought the car that it didn't have the V6.

Ther are other examples. That's the way it is. Get over it!
Tom Tanaka said:
But I understand that Canon did that for their marketing reasons.
After all they are a for-profit organization. They have just
followed a formula to maximize the profit. They didn't want to
create a product that compete against their more expensive models.
This is unavoidable when there is no real competition. I'm sure
Canon will be force to change that attitude once Nikon, Pentax and
Olympus start shipping their DSLR's in the same price range.

If I was the VP of marketing, here is what I would do.
Make the firmware open-source (except for some IP intensive
algorithms), and have enthusiast write their own firmware to
customize their machine.

That way, their camera will attract more fans because of the
potential for complete customization by an army of volunteer Net
programers -- much the same way that Palm got so popular. The
advantage of this strategy is that any shortcomings with the
firmware can be corrected by anyone who is willing to spend their
time and energy on it. This will make their product definately
better (instead of their small group of software engineers, they
can tap into potentially tens of thousands of talented
user-programmers). This will also allow them to focus on hardware
development.

Their current strategy of crippling available features to protect
existing products, IMO, is a backword and short sighted one.

My strategy will make a big hero out of Canon.

Now Canon, hire me!
HRM said:
I wrote the following letter to Canon and encourage everyone else
to do likewise.

This is the Letter:

I read where the Digital rebel has the ability to do FEC
correction, but the feature was not included on purpose by being
omitted in the user controls. I find that very offensive. To dumb
down a products ability is terrible. It has changed my feelings
toward Canon in general and I am considering making the move to
Nikon.

I have been a loyal Canon user for years, but I will no longer
recommend Canon to my friends. I preorderd the Digital Rebel on
Sept 7th and was a big fan participating on many forums and
encouraging people to spend the $1000 for your product. I will no
longer encourage anyone to buy this camera and look forward to the
D70 when it debutes.

Please notify me if and when you decide a firmware update will
correct this issue. I am not impressed at all with your companies
attitude to your loyal users.

Regards,

*********************

The email I used was [email protected]

If enough people voice thier opinion, a simple firmware version can
correct the problem. I think it is work the time it takes and there
is nothing to lose.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have a Canon 300D. I'm mad as hell because when I take photos using my recommended 420EX the shots often come out underexposed. As simple as that. I'm not asking for a V6 FEC installation free of charge, all I'm asking for is the ability of taking good quality shots using good quality gear. I thought I paid for that privilege and in all areas except flash photography I have managed. Now it appears that some of you writers don't have that problem which is great for you. That doesn't help me and the many other 300D owners who seem to have similiar under exposure problems.

I knew I wasn't going to get FEC control when I bought the camera, what I didn't know was that I was going to have under exposure problems when using flash. So please give us a break. Either tell us what we are doing wrong or acknowledge that Canon have a reponsbility to rectify an apparent error.

Jack
milehog said:
Ther are other examples. That's the way it is. Get over it!
Tom Tanaka said:
But I understand that Canon did that for their marketing reasons.
After all they are a for-profit organization. They have just
followed a formula to maximize the profit. They didn't want to
create a product that compete against their more expensive models.
This is unavoidable when there is no real competition. I'm sure
Canon will be force to change that attitude once Nikon, Pentax and
Olympus start shipping their DSLR's in the same price range.

If I was the VP of marketing, here is what I would do.
Make the firmware open-source (except for some IP intensive
algorithms), and have enthusiast write their own firmware to
customize their machine.

That way, their camera will attract more fans because of the
potential for complete customization by an army of volunteer Net
programers -- much the same way that Palm got so popular. The
advantage of this strategy is that any shortcomings with the
firmware can be corrected by anyone who is willing to spend their
time and energy on it. This will make their product definately
better (instead of their small group of software engineers, they
can tap into potentially tens of thousands of talented
user-programmers). This will also allow them to focus on hardware
development.

Their current strategy of crippling available features to protect
existing products, IMO, is a backword and short sighted one.

My strategy will make a big hero out of Canon.

Now Canon, hire me!
HRM said:
I wrote the following letter to Canon and encourage everyone else
to do likewise.

This is the Letter:

I read where the Digital rebel has the ability to do FEC
correction, but the feature was not included on purpose by being
omitted in the user controls. I find that very offensive. To dumb
down a products ability is terrible. It has changed my feelings
toward Canon in general and I am considering making the move to
Nikon.

I have been a loyal Canon user for years, but I will no longer
recommend Canon to my friends. I preorderd the Digital Rebel on
Sept 7th and was a big fan participating on many forums and
encouraging people to spend the $1000 for your product. I will no
longer encourage anyone to buy this camera and look forward to the
D70 when it debutes.

Please notify me if and when you decide a firmware update will
correct this issue. I am not impressed at all with your companies
attitude to your loyal users.

Regards,

*********************

The email I used was [email protected]

If enough people voice thier opinion, a simple firmware version can
correct the problem. I think it is work the time it takes and there
is nothing to lose.
--
Things that make you go HHHHMMmmm...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
JMS53 said:
Either tell
us what we are doing wrong or acknowledge that Canon have a
reponsbility to rectify an apparent error.
Click to expand...
This should help a lot, it did for me. It is a very concise article and contails a lot of information about metering, etc.:
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

I highly doubt that canon will ever add FEC to the Rebel so your options are pretty apparent. Either sell the camera and get the 10D or use the 300D with it's limitations.

Also, if you want FEC on the 300D, you would need the 550EX.

Regards,
Mike

--
300D Gallery:
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

Joy in looking and comprehending is nature's most beautiful gift. -- Albert Einstein

 
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