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billtoo
Senior Member
--How about this for close? (about 3ft)
On a serious note, they are not tame, just not scared of humans
(they jumped onto the hood of one of the jeeps and peered throught
the glass!). They pant like dogs. Apparently, the Egyptians
domesticated them as pets.
billtoo
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo
Steve Maller
Leading Member
Despite what some people have said, you clearly spent your money well. Those guys have a great reputation, and I can see in your photos that you were a willing student. You have some beautiful shots there, sir!
Not to blow my own horn, but I LOVED our trips to Botswana in 1999 and 2000. Here's one of my favorites, and she was looking at me. Right at me. And at my wife and at my kids. I remember the chills as I looked at her through my 300/2.8. She was just glorious.
Not to blow my own horn, but I LOVED our trips to Botswana in 1999 and 2000. Here's one of my favorites, and she was looking at me. Right at me. And at my wife and at my kids. I remember the chills as I looked at her through my 300/2.8. She was just glorious.
David,
No inflation. The price of going to East Africa has been falling because they are hungry for tourists. The terrorism has been hurting these poor countries(Kenys and Tanzania) badly. Having been there, I can tell you for sure that the phototrips have been unnecessarily expensive. Some body is cashing in. Once in East Africa, every one would doing well by following the local guides, who know where and when to go to see the aninals. Let's be honest! these local guides live there all their lives and working there 12 months a and they have their networks...They know the animals almost by names.
baruth
No inflation. The price of going to East Africa has been falling because they are hungry for tourists. The terrorism has been hurting these poor countries(Kenys and Tanzania) badly. Having been there, I can tell you for sure that the phototrips have been unnecessarily expensive. Some body is cashing in. Once in East Africa, every one would doing well by following the local guides, who know where and when to go to see the aninals. Let's be honest! these local guides live there all their lives and working there 12 months a and they have their networks...They know the animals almost by names.
--But, it's true that when you bring along somebody like Andy or
Reichmann, you're paying for that. Typically, they're going for
free (perhaps even making some money?), and that's being paid for
by the people on the tour.
Whether it's worth the extra expense or not is another thing entirely.
Personally, I'd love to set something like that up (like you did
it, just the local guide) with a few close friends, and perhaps
take our "significant others" to help hold down all our stuff.
Hehe.
Of course, step one would be to get a passport.
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
baruth
I agree, prices have been fairly steady the last year or so, but you still have lodges charging people $1000 per night and more! So, I guess it depends on where you stay and how you want to stay. Me? I normally stay for much, much less, but I don't mind pitching my own camp and live off beer and canned meat for a while, as long as I can get the shots I want.
I think you should view trips like Andy's like a photographic workshop in Africa. You obviously have no need for it, but many do.
Sure the local guides know their animals, but they are not photographers. Many can spot a leopard sleeping under a bush at a kilometre - and are very happy to go and show you that - but is that really want you want to see as a photographer? Sometimes it is best to go park at an innocuous group of impala showing beautiful interaction and with good light and viewing angle.
I have seen a great many photographers come to southern Africa, chasing nothing but lions in the middle of the day - going home with only the same shots that everybody else has taken a million times. There's always something new out of Africa, but nowadays - you've got to go LOOK for it.
Regards
Thys
http://www.zulpa.co.za/thys
Lecter
Senior Member
flew to South Africa on Points - Free
Rented Land Rover Discoveries - 12500 RAND (15 days)
Park Fees about USD $500 staying in KNP Chalets and the hotels in J Burg, Tzeneen and .... (cannot remember the name.. doh)
Food and Misc, souveniers, flat tyres another $500 odd....
All up a cheap trip....
If you actually add what they spent on the trip $6,500 + $1,600 airfares
it's close to treble what we paid, double if you account for actually paying for air travel (that would be new to me... yuk!!) and you include Reichmann and Co. I think it's worth it.
Having done the opposite, I'd mix a trip up a bit, rough it and do some hard weeks, and then relax and let the rangers do it for you for a relaxing week.
-------------------------------------
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Get a life!
Rented Land Rover Discoveries - 12500 RAND (15 days)
Park Fees about USD $500 staying in KNP Chalets and the hotels in J Burg, Tzeneen and .... (cannot remember the name.. doh)
Food and Misc, souveniers, flat tyres another $500 odd....
All up a cheap trip....
If you actually add what they spent on the trip $6,500 + $1,600 airfares
it's close to treble what we paid, double if you account for actually paying for air travel (that would be new to me... yuk!!) and you include Reichmann and Co. I think it's worth it.
Having done the opposite, I'd mix a trip up a bit, rough it and do some hard weeks, and then relax and let the rangers do it for you for a relaxing week.
--
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
Lecter
Senior Member
wow, you surprise me....
you need to get out of there.......
;-0
--
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
you need to get out of there.......
;-0
--
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
I notice that a lot of animal pics they're isolated. Is it like this throughout Safari, that is the animals are very spread out and by themseleves in small groups?
groups
-Vincent S.
http://www.pbase.com/vincent8
Nikon D100
Nikkor 24-120 VR, 50 f/1.8 Series E, AFD 70-210 f/4-5.6
Nikon Coolpix 4500
groups
--
-Vincent S.
http://www.pbase.com/vincent8
Nikon D100
Nikkor 24-120 VR, 50 f/1.8 Series E, AFD 70-210 f/4-5.6
Nikon Coolpix 4500
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
I ain't in no hurry to leave.
Now, there be lots of people in a hurry to get IN here.
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Now, there be lots of people in a hurry to get IN here.
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Lecter
Senior Member
--I ain't in no hurry to leave.
Now, there be lots of people in a hurry to get IN here.
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
Thys,
You probably didn't have time to read. But here is: We had same identical cars, Hotel, food game drives. The difference: they had 11 days, we had 17 days. we were two in a sUV with aguie/driver and had 100% control. We didn't have two tour "leaders" to pay for. The result: We paid half the price to get 17 days instead of they paying twice to get 11 days.
About instruction on the field. forget about it. these tour operators are busy to take pix themselves. If you don't have the right tools and know how to use them, forget about learning. The animals don't stand there to pose for you.
baruth
You probably didn't have time to read. But here is: We had same identical cars, Hotel, food game drives. The difference: they had 11 days, we had 17 days. we were two in a sUV with aguie/driver and had 100% control. We didn't have two tour "leaders" to pay for. The result: We paid half the price to get 17 days instead of they paying twice to get 11 days.
About instruction on the field. forget about it. these tour operators are busy to take pix themselves. If you don't have the right tools and know how to use them, forget about learning. The animals don't stand there to pose for you.
--
baruth
Michael Friedman
Senior Member
Some of the photos Michael Reichmann shot with the Sony 828 are now up on Luminous Landscape. They look spectacular to me, which goes to show it's more about the photographer than the camera.
-Michael F
-Michael F
Andy Biggs
Senior Member
Baruth-
I am finding your tone and your derrogatory comments a tad annoying. Here is my interjection, whether you want my comments or not.
1) You did not have the same identical Land Rovers, because the ones that we use are custom made especially for our purposes. They are stretched out Land Rover Defender 110's, affectionately known as Defender 130's (not a real product name). Anyway, they have been lengthened by 30 inches, widened by 10 inches and raised by 6 inches. All with the photographer in mind. In case you are wondering, it doubles the cost of a normal Land Rover. For photographic safari WORKSHOPS, having a total of 3 people in such a vehicle both ensures ample room, as well as 2 workshop attendees with an instructor, as opposed to only 1 attendee and 1 instructor in a normal vehicle. If you would like to see a photograph of said vehicle, I will be happy to provide you with one.
2) It is very likely that you have staid in exactly the same lodges. The value on my safari workshops can be found in the personal attention at every step; from photographic instruction to immediate changes in itineraries, due to changing circumstances. I have the ability to make decisions on the fly, based upon what I deem is a benefit to my travelers. For example, if the wildebeest migration is too long of a drive from one lodge, we can call on our offices in Arusha, Tanzania to completely rework the rest of our itinerary while out in the bush, and change lodges at the last minute. I doubt this is something most people can and would do. But I most certainly can/will/do.
3) I get the feeling that you also visited Kenya on your trip. Just reading between the lines on this one, since you spent 17 days. If you did go to Kenya, the cost structure is most definitely less expensive. Tanzania has higher game park fees, and less people in the lodges, thus increasing the overall cost of a safari in Tanzania. In the Masai Mara, there are over 3000 beds for people to rest in each evening. The Masai Mara represents around 7% of the overall land mass of the Masai Mara / Serengeti ecosystem. The Serengeti has roughly 800 beds for the other 93% of the land in the ecosystem. A completely different safari experience can be found in the Serengeti, and have costs associated to that kind of experience.
4) "these tour operators are busy to take pix themselves". Interesting comment. Yes, I do take my own photographs, but my trips are for the benefit of the travelers. If you claim to know what you are speaking about, perhaps you have already been on such a trip? My trips are not 'tours', nor am I a 'tour leader'. If you take the time to notice, you will figure out that I am a photographer, and also an instructor. Please learn the difference.
In conclusion, safari photo workshops are much different than what you can do on your own. This is completely true. There are different products and services for those who know the difference, and I am glad to help educate you on the differences. For those who have never been on safari, do your research to figure out what you want out of your experience, as it will go a long way into making you a satisfied traveler.
This is my last comment on the matter, as I really don't feel like explaining to Baruth the entire costing scenario of running a photographic safari workshop. But I would like to see some photos from the first day of his safari, and then see the quality of improvement in the photos near the end of his safari. They might be wonderful, but my point is that we all learn in different ways, and my trips are just one of the ways in which to accomplish better photographic techniques. There are many small tidbits of information that enhance photographs while on safari, but one of those small things has to do with knowledge of the subject, which I know more than most.
Cheers
--
Andy Biggs
http://www.safariphototours.com
http://www.andybiggs.com
Africa Photo Workshops ~ Photo Safaris ~ Fine Art Prints
I am finding your tone and your derrogatory comments a tad annoying. Here is my interjection, whether you want my comments or not.
1) You did not have the same identical Land Rovers, because the ones that we use are custom made especially for our purposes. They are stretched out Land Rover Defender 110's, affectionately known as Defender 130's (not a real product name). Anyway, they have been lengthened by 30 inches, widened by 10 inches and raised by 6 inches. All with the photographer in mind. In case you are wondering, it doubles the cost of a normal Land Rover. For photographic safari WORKSHOPS, having a total of 3 people in such a vehicle both ensures ample room, as well as 2 workshop attendees with an instructor, as opposed to only 1 attendee and 1 instructor in a normal vehicle. If you would like to see a photograph of said vehicle, I will be happy to provide you with one.
2) It is very likely that you have staid in exactly the same lodges. The value on my safari workshops can be found in the personal attention at every step; from photographic instruction to immediate changes in itineraries, due to changing circumstances. I have the ability to make decisions on the fly, based upon what I deem is a benefit to my travelers. For example, if the wildebeest migration is too long of a drive from one lodge, we can call on our offices in Arusha, Tanzania to completely rework the rest of our itinerary while out in the bush, and change lodges at the last minute. I doubt this is something most people can and would do. But I most certainly can/will/do.
3) I get the feeling that you also visited Kenya on your trip. Just reading between the lines on this one, since you spent 17 days. If you did go to Kenya, the cost structure is most definitely less expensive. Tanzania has higher game park fees, and less people in the lodges, thus increasing the overall cost of a safari in Tanzania. In the Masai Mara, there are over 3000 beds for people to rest in each evening. The Masai Mara represents around 7% of the overall land mass of the Masai Mara / Serengeti ecosystem. The Serengeti has roughly 800 beds for the other 93% of the land in the ecosystem. A completely different safari experience can be found in the Serengeti, and have costs associated to that kind of experience.
4) "these tour operators are busy to take pix themselves". Interesting comment. Yes, I do take my own photographs, but my trips are for the benefit of the travelers. If you claim to know what you are speaking about, perhaps you have already been on such a trip? My trips are not 'tours', nor am I a 'tour leader'. If you take the time to notice, you will figure out that I am a photographer, and also an instructor. Please learn the difference.
In conclusion, safari photo workshops are much different than what you can do on your own. This is completely true. There are different products and services for those who know the difference, and I am glad to help educate you on the differences. For those who have never been on safari, do your research to figure out what you want out of your experience, as it will go a long way into making you a satisfied traveler.
This is my last comment on the matter, as I really don't feel like explaining to Baruth the entire costing scenario of running a photographic safari workshop. But I would like to see some photos from the first day of his safari, and then see the quality of improvement in the photos near the end of his safari. They might be wonderful, but my point is that we all learn in different ways, and my trips are just one of the ways in which to accomplish better photographic techniques. There are many small tidbits of information that enhance photographs while on safari, but one of those small things has to do with knowledge of the subject, which I know more than most.
Cheers
--
Andy Biggs
http://www.safariphototours.com
http://www.andybiggs.com
Africa Photo Workshops ~ Photo Safaris ~ Fine Art Prints
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
But if that's the case, why review the camera at all?
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
I did read that, but I never saw a list of hotels, food and car types from him, so I assumed you meant 'similar' and not 'same'.
Like I said: you obviously have no need for a photographic workshop, but others do.
The amount of days does not matter so much as the quality of those days ito photographic opportunities.
If that is the case - I will fully agree with you. They SHOULD be primarily there to service the paying customers.
I don't quite agree with that. An expert photographer could help you with lots of ideas and things to try in the 'heat of battle' if they want. Even in just reviewing a day's work at the end of a day could already make the photographer think different about the next day's shoot.
I DO have a 'bit' of photographic knowledge on photographing African animals in the bush - so I know something of their habits by now ;-)
Regards
Thys
http://www.zulpa.co.za/thys/
Lecter
Senior Member
Good Answer.
I think there's great value in what you provided.
Each to their own....
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
I think there's great value in what you provided.
Each to their own....
--
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
DGSmithMD
Leading Member
Baruth, So you did it cheaper, who cares. I could have done it cheaper than you by cutting corners. It sounds like it costed about $2,000 more per person than you paid but you have to assume that you are paying for not only Andy and Michaels fare (admittingly, I'm not sure about this), but also their expertise! Why do you ask why Michael was there. Sure, Andy may know the country better, but this is a workshop for photography with 15 people. I can't think of many other better photographers to have along to help with the teaching, photo tips, etc than Michael.
Heck, I can go in my back yard for free and take pics, but I just might be willing to pay $2000 to have them come to my backyard with me for a week to learn more about photography. I definitely would pay the additional money if I was already going to make a big investment in the trip just to make it worthwhile. You might not, but I and obviously others would. So to say they got taken advantage of is rediculous and sounds like jealousy to me. I know I'm jealous that I couldn't go.
My $0.02
--
Dave
'He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose'
Jim Elliot
Andy,
I understand that was your last post, but you may be interested to know that my comments were not directed at you personnally. So please don't take it personnlly. BTW, I spent half time in Kenya, half time in Tanzania.
My whole point is this: the phototours can be organized lot less costly without compromising the quality. For example: you and 15 clients. Why Reichman??? Without Reichman, you could lower the price quite a bit.
baruth
I understand that was your last post, but you may be interested to know that my comments were not directed at you personnally. So please don't take it personnlly. BTW, I spent half time in Kenya, half time in Tanzania.
My whole point is this: the phototours can be organized lot less costly without compromising the quality. For example: you and 15 clients. Why Reichman??? Without Reichman, you could lower the price quite a bit.
--
baruth
Andy Biggs
Senior Member
Just since you have asked so darned many times, I paid for Michael to come along, not my attendees. I took the financial hit. The student to teacher ratio was 11:2 on this trip, much better than any other photo safari on the planet.
Happy?
Andy Biggs
http://www.safariphototours.com
http://www.andybiggs.com
Africa Photo Workshops ~ Photo Safaris ~ Fine Art Prints
Happy?
--
Andy Biggs
http://www.safariphototours.com
http://www.andybiggs.com
Africa Photo Workshops ~ Photo Safaris ~ Fine Art Prints
Mark Antony-Franklin
Forum Enthusiast
Dave
Imho, if you have to pay someone ...anyone ...$2,000 to teach you how to take photographs ...or improve upon your current photographic talents ...then call it quits my friend and try another hobby ...or at the very least follow another passion!
Frankly, such 'workshops' make me laugh my ar$e off!
I must confess I'm not terribly familiar with Mr Bigg's work, and I'm sure he's not going to starve from organising such a difficult trip ...what with all those complicaticated variables and permutations ...plus one mustn't forget the customized Land Rovers made 'especially for photographers'!
As for Mr Reichmann's attendance ...well perhaps Mr Biggs likes his company and delighted in paying for his visitation?
When Reichmann's not talking about how many new lenses and/or cameras he's buying, his website can be informative and of interest ...although the design of the aforementioned website leaves something desperately to be desired, especially for such an apparently creative guru & talent!
Regards
MAF
Imho, if you have to pay someone ...anyone ...$2,000 to teach you how to take photographs ...or improve upon your current photographic talents ...then call it quits my friend and try another hobby ...or at the very least follow another passion!
Frankly, such 'workshops' make me laugh my ar$e off!
I must confess I'm not terribly familiar with Mr Bigg's work, and I'm sure he's not going to starve from organising such a difficult trip ...what with all those complicaticated variables and permutations ...plus one mustn't forget the customized Land Rovers made 'especially for photographers'!
As for Mr Reichmann's attendance ...well perhaps Mr Biggs likes his company and delighted in paying for his visitation?
When Reichmann's not talking about how many new lenses and/or cameras he's buying, his website can be informative and of interest ...although the design of the aforementioned website leaves something desperately to be desired, especially for such an apparently creative guru & talent!
Regards
MAF
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