Sony F828

twodogs603 · Jan 19, 2004

I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

ruddyone · Jan 19, 2004

I have the same question, (although I have the F707), thanks for posting it.
Nate

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Nukester · Jan 19, 2004

Set both camera's to ISO 100 and shoot away. Compare pictures...

You can shoot the 828 at ISO64 but you will be a full 1 to 1 1/2 stops slower with shutter speed. Almost kills the purpose of the fast lense.

Try them both at the same settings and you might be suprised what your 1 year old 717 can do

ruddyone said:
twodogs603 said:

I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Peter iNova · Jan 19, 2004

Nukester said:
You can shoot the 828 at ISO64 but you will be a full 1 to 1 1/2
stops slower with shutter speed. Almost kills the purpose of the
fast lense.

Try them both at the same settings and you might be suprised what
your 1 year old 717 can do

ruddyone said:

twodogs603 said:

I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The ISO 64 setting would get you a shot about 3/4 stop slower in shutter speed than ISO 100. ISO 50 would be exactly one stop slower in exposure. The f/2.0 lens, compared to most cameras at f/2.8 or slower, would still get you a bit higher shutter speed than the usual compact digital camera.

Of course, the f/2 lens on the 707/717 gets you a stop over other cameras, too.

-iNova
--
http://www.itssony.com

JohnK · Jan 19, 2004

Nukester said:
Almost kills the purpose of the fast lense.

Agent · Jan 19, 2004

Member said:
The ISO 64 setting would get you a shot about 3/4 stop slower in
shutter speed than ISO 100. ISO 50 would be exactly one stop slower
in exposure.

In theory yes. But the F717 and 828 are not rated the same. ISO100 on the F717 is faster than ISO100 on the F828.

Otto Carroll · Jan 19, 2004

I'm very happy with my 828. The CA I've encountered thus far has not been any worse than what I've seen from my 717. I've seen some PF in a couple of my images, but none that I consider objectionable- meaning that you would really have to look for it to find it. From what I can tell, the degree and the extent of the PF/CA problems with this model varies from camera to camera (at least I haven't seen anything from my camera that comes close to what I've seen from problem cameras posted so far).

I took a risk (gave my 717 away) hoping I would be pleased with the 828, and I have been.

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

--
sputacus

dieselnyc · Jan 19, 2004

I own the 717 and just picked up the 828 yesterday. I am going to do some side by side comparisons for the next week or two.

So far the pics are great from the 828 and the camera is very fast. Of course, the camera feel and build is much nicer. It's wide angle is nice also.
No need to buy a WA lens.

PF is there. Someone else on this thread said they didn't notice much. Obviously, I don't want to bash this camera because I really like it but I will give you my honest opinion. Almost every shot of anything reflective using the built-in flash showed the PF. The same shots take with my 717 only showed slight PF on one pic.

It is pretty quick to remove it with Shay's PS action but would be really annoying if I had to do it often.

I am going to do some more testing. As long as I can take pictures as good and even better than the 717 I will keep the 828. I'll live with PF and correct it later. For me, the features and feel are worth the upgrade. But, I'll probably upgrade to the next Sony camera once it comes out alsoo

My feeling is that if you can afford it why not improve your picture taking experience when possible.

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

dieselnyc · Jan 19, 2004

Peter,

I'm not that technical. I'm trying to learn more. What do you mean in laypersons terms?

How does this affect my pics? Right now I'm comparing my 717 to my 828 and would like to understand more about the differences.

Thanks.

PS. Have you tried the 828. Any comments?

Peter iNova said:
Nukester said:

You can shoot the 828 at ISO64 but you will be a full 1 to 1 1/2
stops slower with shutter speed. Almost kills the purpose of the
fast lense.

Try them both at the same settings and you might be suprised what
your 1 year old 717 can do

ruddyone said:

twodogs603 said:

I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The ISO 64 setting would get you a shot about 3/4 stop slower in
shutter speed than ISO 100. ISO 50 would be exactly one stop slower
in exposure. The f/2.0 lens, compared to most cameras at f/2.8 or
slower, would still get you a bit higher shutter speed than the
usual compact digital camera.

Of course, the f/2 lens on the 707/717 gets you a stop over other
cameras, too.

-iNova
--
http://www.itssony.com

Marotte · Jan 19, 2004

I switch my 717 for the 828 severall days ago.

It's definitely not the same league: the 828 is WAY above the 717.

Yes, maybe picture quality is not 'that' better, but speed, wide angle, manual zoom, IR capabilities, viewfinder, ergonomics, all make taking picture much more pleasant...

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Lin Evans · Jan 19, 2004

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

I don't have my F717 (my wife's using it today) but I do have my F707 and my F828 handy and will take a quick shot with each of the same subject. Tell me how you would like it. I can downsample the f828 to five megapixels or upsample the F707 to eight.

Lin
--
http://208.56.82.71

RAparker · Jan 19, 2004

Lin

I would love to see this comparison as I have a F707 and am considering a F828. Something that shows the CA in both cameras would be nice. From what I have seen from the samples, color is better in the F828, and noise is about the same.

wmcdowell · Jan 19, 2004

lens and lense are both correct (is this what your talking about?). just like color and colour.

i don't see any bashing here either. maybe you have connected your ego to the choice of the cam you purchased. it would be a good idea not to do so.

wm

wmcdowell · Jan 19, 2004

hi,

just a note, upsampling is aking photoshop to fill in the 3mp gap with no new information. so it degrades the quality of detail from the orginal.

100% crops would be better to see the real diff.

wm

Lin Evans · Jan 19, 2004

twodogs603 said:
I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Below are crops just taken with my F707 and F828 on full auto mode. The F707 chose 1/500th at F6.3, ISO 100 at 48.5mm = 190mm 35mm equiv.

The F828 chose 1.250th at F8, ISO 64 at 51mm = 210mm 35mm equiv.

As you can see, not only does the F828 have a good deal more resolution in this shot, it also has less noise. As said in my earlier post, I would be glad to either reduce the F828 image to 5 megapixels or enlarge the F707 to 8 megapixels for any who are interested. Links to original images below the picture crops.

The F707 is the top image, the F828 the bottom....

Lin

http://www.lin-evans.com/f828/f707.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.com/f828/f828.jpg
--
http://208.56.82.71

RAparker · Jan 19, 2004

Nice Lin, Thanks

But if possible could you do a shot where CA is present. Sorry to ask you to make your camera do this. I would really like to see this comparison. In looking back at the pictures that I have taken with my F707 CA is present in several of them. However I do not think when looking at samples posted here that the F828 has CA that is that much different than the F707.

Nukester · Jan 19, 2004

JohnK said:
Nukester said:

Almost kills the purpose of the fast lense.

Click to expand...

Nukester · Jan 19, 2004

How can you call a camera that needs ISO 64 and 1/250th of a second to equal the exposure quality of a camera at ISO 100 and 1/500th better? That is not by any means a comparison. What a huge sacrifice to deal with shutter speeds that are 1/2 the speed! I'm sorry, but you prove my point on the weakness of the 828.

Now on ability to resolve, the 828 is fantastic. The image is well focused and clear.

Lin Evans said:
twodogs603 said:

I currently have the Sony F717 and like it. However I have fallen
for the new Sony F828. I am reading a lot of negative comments
about this camera, regarding chromatic aberration and noisy
pictures. Those that currently have the camera, whats your opinion
and would you recommend this camera or should I stick with the F717.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Below are crops just taken with my F707 and F828 on full auto mode.
The F707 chose 1/500th at F6.3, ISO 100 at 48.5mm = 190mm 35mm
equiv.

The F828 chose 1.250th at F8, ISO 64 at 51mm = 210mm 35mm equiv.

As you can see, not only does the F828 have a good deal more
resolution in this shot, it also has less noise. As said in my
earlier post, I would be glad to either reduce the F828 image to 5
megapixels or enlarge the F707 to 8 megapixels for any who are
interested. Links to original images below the picture crops.

The F707 is the top image, the F828 the bottom....

Lin

http://www.lin-evans.com/f828/f707.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.com/f828/f828.jpg
--
http://208.56.82.71

Lin Evans · Jan 19, 2004

wmcdowell said:
hi,

just a note, upsampling is aking photoshop to fill in the 3mp gap
with no new information. so it degrades the quality of detail from
the orginal.

100% crops would be better to see the real diff.

wm

Yes, either upsampling or downsampling changes the image. Whether or not there is image degradation when upsampling depends primarily on the actual data captured. When sufficient detail exists to allow interpolation algorithms to do their jobs properly there is little loss when upsampling. in this case, some fine detail would have been sacrificed by upsampling. On the other hand, downsamplilng always throws away pixels and therefore always degrades the information available for print purposes even though a screen shot may "look" nicer when downsampled.

The reason I offered is that no matter how data is presented for critique, someone will be unhappy. Because the focal length on the two images is slightly different (190/210mm) and because it's very difficult to choose an exact focal length, there will be comments that were they of equal focal length image "A" might have been better/worse than image "B".

I don't have the time to set these up in my studio and do tests under controlled conditions - actually Phil has already done that - but this can give those who are considering the F828 a gut level feel for what differences they might expect in actual image resolution. It's not a good day today here in Colorado for outside photography. We have overcast and snowy weather, so this is about as good a comparison as I can quickly make. I can tell everyone that from my experience with the F707/F717 and F828, the actual degree of classic chromatic aberration is very similar between the two. Purple fringing is considerably more likely to happen with the f828 under conditions predisposed to causing it and the photographer must use more care when selecting aperture and in properly exposing. In essence, the f828 is less of a "point and shoot" camera than the F717/F707, but in terms of pure image quality it is markedly better. Noise levels are quite similar at like ISO's in practice, but having ISO 64 as an option means it's possible to get great images with less noise. What many fail to remember is that the "appearance" of noise is almost always more noticeable in larger file sizes. The doesn't mean there is actually more noise there, just that we are acutely aware of its presence. This is why downsampling the F828 images to 5 megapixels actually produces a considerably better image than the native capture from the f707/f717.

Best regards,

Lin
--
http://208.56.82.71

Garrett Adams · Jan 19, 2004

The standard ISO ratings between 50 and 100 are in thirds (64 and 80). So ISO 64 is 2/3rds slower than ISO 100. I won't argue however whether the F828s ISO 64 is a true representation of its' speed.

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