Paul Pope, camera aging and replacement question

waterskier · Jan 19, 2004

I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame. The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your company.

Ken Phillips · Jan 19, 2004

... are typically rated for ten thousand insertion/removal cycles ... and as I shoot 50-240 images per card, I'm not gonna hit that before I hit 150K on the shutter!
KP

waterskier said:
I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.

--
I don't believe in fate, but I do believe in f/8!
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm

hans l · Jan 19, 2004

any idea for how many insertions usb or firewire connectors are good for?
thanks,
hans

Paul Pope · Jan 19, 2004

1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k onwards.

Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

waterskier said:
I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.

--
Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

Stefan Klein · Jan 19, 2004

Nikon recently had a F5, that was sent in for inspection with over 1 million shots!

Stefan

Paul Pope said:
waterskier said:

I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.

Click to expand...

--
Gallery at
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

JoeSchmoe · Jan 19, 2004

Or are other hardware wearing down as well, such that replacing the shutters would only be a stop-gap solution?

Paul Pope said:
1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to
have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k
onwards.
Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk
it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

Ron Lebel · Jan 19, 2004

Well, at 70K shots on a $7,000 camera, that is 10 cents/shot. If only one in 50 is a money maker (and I bet Paul does better than that) that is only $5.00. Considering all the other expenses of professional shooting (you think those women are cheap?) I'm sure this is a minor expense. Why worry about it?

JoeSchmoe said:
Paul Pope said:

1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to
have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k
onwards.
Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk
it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

Click to expand...

Graham Snook · Jan 19, 2004

£250 for a new shutter or £5000 for a new camera, gimme a new shutter

The only time I've had to replace my shutter was when I put my thumb through it on a rough day when I was changing film. I've never had any other problems with shutters going and don't know anybody else that has, even when I worked for Allsport none of the snappers had problems with Canon shutters.

If one does go I've always got a second body, but it's not a problem I even consider, I feel I'm more likley to drop a lens/camera over the side of a boat than I am to have a shutter fail on me.

Having said that, the salt water kills my camera before old age can!

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 1.D.s, 35mm and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

JoeSchmoe · Jan 19, 2004

Well, if it's only $5 a shot if you replace the entire camera, it would be substantially cheaper to replace just the shutter. Why shell out another $7000 when $300 may do? However "minor" $7000 may be, surely a rational economic actor would prefer to spend only $300 rather than $7000 (and use the savings for other things, such as hiring more models).

Therefore, I still wonder whether Paul has other reasons for replacing the entire camera rather than only the shutter.

Ron Lebel said:
JoeSchmoe said:

Paul Pope said:

1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to
have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k
onwards.
Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk
it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/joeschmoe

Paul Pope · Jan 19, 2004

its not like film... they are replaced with better technology every 2 years
get rid of em while they are still worth a buck

JoeSchmoe said:
Paul Pope said:

1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to
have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k
onwards.
Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk
it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

Click to expand...

--
Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

Paul Pope · Jan 19, 2004

Because after they are replaced by a new model they are essentialy worthless unlike a film camera ....

I've got 2 1V's that have had several shutters ...still got them ...but digital ... I throw em away when they are still worth something ....

JoeSchmoe said:
Therefore, I still wonder whether Paul has other reasons for
replacing the entire camera rather than only the shutter.

Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73

'Stop it now or you will go blind'

JoeSchmoe · Jan 19, 2004

Thanks for the follow up. Now I understand. It's like replacing an entire computer rather than just a CPU or graphics card after a couple of

years. Except (unfortunately) a computer doesn't have much resale value after two years.

Paul Pope said:
Member said:

Therefore, I still wonder whether Paul has other reasons for
replacing the entire camera rather than only the shutter.

Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73

Click to expand...

'Stop it now or you will go blind'

--
http://www.pbase.com/joeschmoe

Neil Turner · Jan 19, 2004

Paul Pope said:
its not like film... they are replaced with better technology every
2 years
get rid of em while they are still worth a buck

We found with the old Kodak DCS520 bodies that the chips started to degrade after a couple of years and that they shifted their colours quite noticeably at around the 80,000 image mark. I have two EOS1D bodies and the older of the two has shifted towards a red/magenta balance compared to the other one (and compared to the 1DS). The life of the chip rather than the shutter is the issue fom this experience. The shutter on the EOS1D bodies are pretty tough, so I haven't too many worries about them. Of course my employer buys my kit and pays for repairs so my take on this is a bit different from most;-)

Neil.
--
http://www.dg28.com

aevoegels · Jan 19, 2004

I checked your website out - great pics! If I were to be a pro, I would wish to end up with a gallery like yours!

Alfred

Neil Turner said:
Paul Pope said:

its not like film... they are replaced with better technology every
2 years
get rid of em while they are still worth a buck

Click to expand...

We found with the old Kodak DCS520 bodies that the chips started to
degrade after a couple of years and that they shifted their colours
quite noticeably at around the 80,000 image mark. I have two EOS1D
bodies and the older of the two has shifted towards a red/magenta
balance compared to the other one (and compared to the 1DS). The
life of the chip rather than the shutter is the issue fom this
experience. The shutter on the EOS1D bodies are pretty tough, so I
haven't too many worries about them. Of course my employer buys my
kit and pays for repairs so my take on this is a bit different from
most;-)

Neil.
--
http://www.dg28.com

--
http://www.pbase.com/aevoegels/2004__day_by_day

Pbestwk · Jan 19, 2004

Paul Pope said:
Member said:

Therefore, I still wonder whether Paul has other reasons for
replacing the entire camera rather than only the shutter.

Gallery at http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73

Click to expand...

'Stop it now or you will go blind'

--with regard to getting rid of them while they still have worth - having used pro cameras for a number of years & therfore having a bit of an understanding of the purpose of a particular unit as a tool to accomplish a task. I would think that my 1Ds will have value as a tool for a number of years beyond 100k shutter releases. After it has passed the date of being the main strike weapon in my bag it will make an excellent backup.
Paul B
http://www.studio58.com.au

Mr Majestyk · Jan 19, 2004

Paul Pope said:
JoeSchmoe said:

Paul Pope said:

1D / 1Ds shutters start dying at about 100k .... I cannot afford to
have one die on location so I get rid of them from about 70k
onwards.
Do the same with film camera's too .....just can't afford to risk
it I've killed 2 already.
WARNING : D60 10D go at 30k onwards ......

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Gallery at
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

Not sure I would want to buy one of Paul's digital cameras. : )

Geez I had read although the shutters on 1D/1Ds are guaranteed for 150K they have been able to get 300K+ out of them?

And 10D only good for 30K clicks, yikes; how much are they to replace?

John Meara · Jan 19, 2004

Paul Pope said:
Because after they are replaced by a new model they are essentialy
worthless unlike a film camera ....

Exactly, Just like the 10D w/ BG-ed3 that I have on EBay and have alreday been offered $1525 for. That will go a long way on the 1D replacement and I,m number one on the list for that at my local shop.

I bet if I waited until the new cameras come out,( I expect a 10D replacement as well), I'd have a hard time getting a $1000USD for it.

Remember the D60 value after the 10D arrived.

Regards,

John Meara

aevoegels · Jan 19, 2004

Who guarantees 1D/1Ds shutters for 150K?

Mr Majestyk said:
Not sure I would want to buy one of Paul's digital cameras. : )
Geez I had read although the shutters on 1D/1Ds are guaranteed for
150K they have been able to get 300K+ out of them?

And 10D only good for 30K clicks, yikes; how much are they to replace?

Daniel Clune · Jan 19, 2004

I watched on ebay after the 10D was announced last March and the D60 was still getting $1300 to 1600 on ebay for almost an entire month after 10D annoucment. I dont think alot of people either new about the 10D right away or just didnt want to wait for a 10D even though i got one by March 20. Or just suckers born every minute on ebay. Iam hoping for same thing to happen "if" a 10D replacement comes out. Hopefuly 1D replacement is around 3k or less.

John Meara said:
Paul Pope said:

Because after they are replaced by a new model they are essentialy
worthless unlike a film camera ....

Click to expand...

Exactly, Just like the 10D w/ BG-ed3 that I have on EBay and have
alreday been offered $1525 for. That will go a long way on the 1D
replacement and I,m number one on the list for that at my local
shop.

I bet if I waited until the new cameras come out,( I expect a 10D
replacement as well), I'd have a hard time getting a $1000USD for
it.

Remember the D60 value after the 10D arrived.

Regards,

John Meara

--
http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm

Ben Strasser · Jan 19, 2004

lasting about 30,000 but no one can come up with where they have seen this number. The closest Canon has said is it is much less than the 150,000 cycles of the 1Ds. Do you have any better information?

BTW, nice site, with subjects like that I could see how the shutter would be stressed along with the photographer.

Paul Pope said:
waterskier said:

I was curious about your comment that you sell cameras at the 100K
shots fired point. It also sounds like you use a LOT of cameras.

I've heard the 1D shutter is good for 150K shots and that it is
replacable for about $300. Do they also have a tune up? Say
replacing flash card contact surfaces, environmental seals etc...

From all your experience I was curious what kinds of failures you
have seen and why you settled on 100K shots as the time to dump a
camera.

I've seen what has happened with my P&S digicam. I have to pop the
flash up a few times before it flashes. It occassionally gets into
a bad mode where I have to drop the battery out of it. At 2.5K
shots the sensor develeoped a hot pixel dead center of the frame.
The coloring has worn off in a number of places. The diopter knob
broke off.

As someone who expects to average 5K-10K photos a year, I can't
expect to ever wear one of these out, but I was curious what you
have seen from the cumulative manyears of camera use at your
company.

Click to expand...

--
Gallery at
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=73
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

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