Disturbing images - shooting fish in a barrel

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Jared Hunter said:

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

I happened to see the video on the local ABC news outlet. It should have never reached the studio, let alone been released to the public. GC

"Anthony Cordesman, an ABCNEWS defense consultant who also viewed the tape, said the Apache pilots would have had a much clearer picture of the scene than what was recorded on the videotape."

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

I was shocked when I saw this video clip, it most definitely should never have been "released" (slipped?) to any public source.

I find myself having mixed feelings, horror and sadness for the loss of life, but also understanding.
This is not a video game.

Having served in the Army, I understand what is required and asked of a soldier and the military in general. And that we tread a razors edge between becoming those that kill others simply because we're more powerful, and those that use restraint, even when they know full well the cost of that restraint will probably be the loss of many more "innocent" lives and the failure of a given mission.

I wonder what evidence they had that led them to those three men? Are they guilty of the murder of innocents themselves, or were they planning something? Is it different if you don't get a chance to carry out an act of terrorism and murder even though you tried?

If, given the chance, would these three men kill me, me wife and my children with equal disregard for life, and even take joy in the deaths of "the enemy"?

It is said that there have been more people killed in the recorded history of man, in the name of a "god", than all other wars and conflicts combined, but somehow, even in the face of that horrible fact, to kill in the name of some other ideal seems even less acceptable to me. A holy warrior is driven by deep seated beliefs and passion that even if you don't agree with, you can still understand. It makes them much more dangerous.

Where will it all end? Will it ever end?

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

And if you want some good color images, seek out the images of the Kurdish children gased to death by Saddam's henchmen. They are available in full "living" color.

My heart does not bleed for Saddam's soldiers being killed. I did not see any silhouettes of children in this video. These are soldiers being killed by other soldiers. If they weren't killed, then maybe tomorrow they would be planting a roadside bomb that brings another one of our troops (allies perspective) home in a box.

In a war, solidiers on both sides shoot to kill. They do not shoot to "scare"

If you have a problem with this video, then you have a problem with war in general. (Fair enough.) But nothing on this video is out of the ordinary as far as soliders shooting at soldiers is concerned.

Fully agree with you on the points made...

The second and third men had plenty of time to surrender, at which point, this would have been a completely different video (perhaps...depending on the mission at hand, I suppose).

I dunno, to me there is a difference between good tactics (guerilla warfare) and cowardly acts (sending children strapped with 8 pounds of exposive strapped to their chest to their death). I can accept the former, but not the latter as being legit ways to fight a war.

It is sad to see any life lost, but particularly sad to see fellow soldiers(to include all allied forces/branches) lost, especially when they don't even have the oppertunity to defend themselves.
--
Oops, Formatted, forgot my password, but I am still
-Matt Davids
http://www.pbase.com/ph0t0man

Keith Hawkins said:

My heart does not bleed for Saddam's soldiers being killed. I did
not see any silhouettes of children in this video. These are
soldiers being killed by other soldiers. If they weren't killed,
then maybe tomorrow they would be planting a roadside bomb that
brings another one of our troops (allies perspective) home in a
box.

Click to expand...

The iraqi resistance is not all made up of Saddams soldiers.

You are probably right, but resistance is resistance and must be dealth with. Douglas MacArthur said that the soldier hates war more than anyone, but once in it you have to fight it to the end with everything at your disposal. GC

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

They are not reduced to white silhouettes they are enhanced to white silhouettes. If the technology existed to show night scenes in full color we would be using it. The outcome wouldn't change.

--
John

Right after the first killing, the second target appears to be frantically waving something almost like a surrender flag before he too is mowed down by 30mm cannon fire.

I'm not sure I'd agree the rest had time to surrender. After the first killing with such extreme firepower, shock and confusion would set in. Also, it's clear from the dialogue that the shooters weren't taking prisoners...they were basically after whatever moved. Basically snipers in the sky.

ph0t0man said:

Fully agree with you on the points made...
The second and third men had plenty of time to surrender, at which
point, this would have been a completely different video
(perhaps...depending on the mission at hand, I suppose).

Click to expand...

You want a helicopter to land at night in hostile territory to see if they want to surrender? Never been in a war have you.

Jared Hunter said:

I'm not sure I'd agree the rest had time to surrender. After the
first killing with such extreme firepower, shock and confusion
would set in. Also, it's clear from the dialogue that the shooters
weren't taking prisoners...they were basically after whatever
moved. Basically snipers in the sky.

ph0t0man said:

Fully agree with you on the points made...
The second and third men had plenty of time to surrender, at which
point, this would have been a completely different video
(perhaps...depending on the mission at hand, I suppose).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
John

John Burns said:

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

They are not reduced to white silhouettes they are enhanced to
white silhouettes. If the technology existed to show night scenes
in full color we would be using it. The outcome wouldn't change.

Click to expand...

That was meant to be figurative. Perhaps, it'd be more difficult to kill if the shooters had a full color view with a 400mm closeups of the targets so they could see the flying limbs and red mist.

Jared Hunter said:

John Burns said:

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

They are not reduced to white silhouettes they are enhanced to
white silhouettes. If the technology existed to show night scenes
in full color we would be using it. The outcome wouldn't change.

Click to expand...

That was meant to be figurative. Perhaps, it'd be more difficult to
kill if the shooters had a full color view with a 400mm closeups of
the targets so they could see the flying limbs and red mist.

Click to expand...

It's their job. Easy doesn't enter into it. I've seen the red mist through a scope. All your thinking is, "that's one that won't kill me". If you have a problem I strongly suggest you criticize the governmental policies and not the soldiers.

--
John

been in a war.

But...It wouldn't be the first time people surrendered to things that can't even take prisoners. Have you heard anything about the swaths of people who surrendered to UAV's? Pretty tough to bring back hostages on something without a person to begin with...didn't stop them.

I don't really feel like watching it again, and I guess I could be wrong about the time thing. I know there is a huge confusion in times like these, for the people getting shot at, but w/e.

No matter your reaction to the footage, you might agree; It is quite disturbing that this got into the public.
--
Oops, Formatted, forgot my password, but I am still
-Matt Davids
http://www.pbase.com/ph0t0man

John Burns said:

Jared Hunter said:

John Burns said:

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

They are not reduced to white silhouettes they are enhanced to
white silhouettes. If the technology existed to show night scenes
in full color we would be using it. The outcome wouldn't change.

Click to expand...

That was meant to be figurative. Perhaps, it'd be more difficult to
kill if the shooters had a full color view with a 400mm closeups of
the targets so they could see the flying limbs and red mist.

Click to expand...

It's their job. Easy doesn't enter into it. I've seen the red
mist through a scope. All your thinking is, "that's one that won't
kill me". If you have a problem I strongly suggest you criticize
the governmental policies and not the soldiers.

Click to expand...

No one is criticising the soldiers. Keeping this purely at the clinical level, there's no doubt killing is easier if you can dehumanize and abstract your target instead of thinking of them as someone's son or a child's parent.

"That's one that won't kill me" applies less and less as technology enables killing by remote control or at distances which would reduce risk to virtually nil.

ph0t0man said:

No matter your reaction to the footage, you might agree; It is
quite disturbing that this got into the public.

Click to expand...

..... we wait for aggression and we spring out when released.

I bet Sadam or Bin Laden have home movies as good as this, but I suspect they are jumping up and down and praising Allah, and wishing we were all in those gun sights.

We may lose because we have and can have compassion for our enemy.

We might even starve because we won’t kill another animal, that’s why milk and beef comes from the supermarket instead.

Why do the sounds of the first shots not produce any bullets? I know they said that they were out of range but it is weird 1. that the poeple do not hear the sound of the bullets and 2. they do not seem to move any closer to the men when they fire the second time.

Questions and the truth of war. I don't think there is any truth in war.

--
http://www.pbase.com/relate2

Sifodyas said:

Keith Hawkins said:

My heart does not bleed for Saddam's soldiers being killed. I did
not see any silhouettes of children in this video. These are
soldiers being killed by other soldiers. If they weren't killed,
then maybe tomorrow they would be planting a roadside bomb that
brings another one of our troops (allies perspective) home in a
box.

Click to expand...

The iraqi resistance is not all made up of Saddams soldiers.

Click to expand...

then they are misguided.they must think they will inherit iraq as a given.

just like the idiot shiites think they
will be allowed to rule because there
are more of them.

make no mistake, this has nothing more to do with Saddam Hussein.
the history of iraq and islam is littered

with deadly conflicts over the assumption of power(temporal and religious) after some ruler/ruling
clique has been deposed. they never
needed americans around to guide
them in their murderous ways.

Because they are very far away!!! They are in absolutely no danger, from the individuals they are shooting at!! At least, not at that time.

To answer an earlier comment......... Color night vision does exist, but, I can't see what effect that would have. The job would still be the same.

I can't find any reason at all to shoot the injured man! They probably wasted a perfectly good source of intelligence (in more ways than one).
As for john burns earlier comment.... We can land anywhere we want to!

Thats why they have people fly cover. Wide open battlefield, easy to negotiate, nowhere to hide- especially when you are reading the heat, from their bodies.
With all of this other mess (blah,blah,blah... Sadam killed children)!

We kill children too... And women, old people, dogs, cats, camels, whatever... ie... the term "colllateral damage".
I find the idea that it should'nt have made it to the public, silly and naive.
All war should be live, 24 hours a day, un-cut, un-edited.

Why should the "good" people at home be exempt from the actions of their "representative" government.
That just allows people to pretend that war is something that it is not!!!!

Mark Hayes

Isn't that vehicle on the left a tractor with some harvesting equipment? (Plow?)

Can anybody explain to me why these farmers need to be shot down with exploding bullets?

Jared Hunter said:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story795.shtml

This is a case where black and white is of lesser impact than
color. Being in monochrome through IR, it probably makes it a
little easier to pull the trigger as well, with the target people
reduced to nothing more than white silhouettes...

Click to expand...

--
http://jonr.beecee.org/