Over and out

Don Van Patten · Jan 17, 2004

I have no dog in this fight. But every forum takes a beating when some new camera is introduced. How may flames were laid at the feet of the 300D for being a plastic body. And by a lot of peeps from the Sony forum?? If you guys want to make this a little peice of heaven than I think your are looking through the world with rose colored glasses. True there has been some really nasty comments here, but some are based on fact. Lke it or not. Is the 828 a great camera yes. But is it without problems?

He wants to leave, but has admited he sent his camera in to get a better one. DoH. As a landscape photographer myself CA is just a horror show with tree branches and the contrast between the sky and the trees. But yet he still says it is great even though the one he has is not too hot. I hope he gets one that is fine, but to not take the heat for an obivious problem that he has admitted to with his is just crazy not to expect people to react the way they do. A sad fact of human nature.

I am not knocking his photography skills. He has a great web site. But if you to play the game you have to have thick skin to stand by your comments. I will miss his comments. Not happy to see him go.

My Thoughts,

Don

Matt in FL said:
tko said:

I don't see any evidence of mass destruction going on. I see a very
natural questioning and exploring of a very eagerly awaited new
camera. Nothing different from any other major camera introduction
(just look at the 10D and 300D, not to mention the 5700). Like it
or not, Sony is one of the big names, has big ambitions, and
invites high expectations. You can expect a lot of strong feedback.
It's a natural progression - expectation, reality, discussion, then
acceptance.

There are worse things can happen to a forum, and that's to turn
them into an excuse venue as to why the shortcomings aren't really
shortcomings, and how they can easily be worked around. Worse,
faults can be completely denied. Look at the Canon forum - there
are still people who believe there are no focusing issues, even
though multiple forum menbers have had multiple bad cameras.

Sure, there are a lot of negative, self serving comments posted
that achieve nothing, but there are a lot of good posts too. If
your upset it's probaby because you taking it too personally, and
identifying too closely with your camera. An attack on the camera
is not an attack on you!

Remember, censorship is far worse than allowing people to say
things that are just plain wrong or hurtful. Censorship is asking
one person to judge what is right and what is wrong.

My advice? If it's too much just back off for a while. Take
pictures, use your equipment, forget about the forum. There's only
one person you have to make happy with your equipment - and that's
you. Things will settle down in time.

Click to expand...

--Well said. You know, a lot of the real negativity is coming from
folks that just wont accept the fact that this camera has either
design or quality control porblems. There are lots of great pics,
there are also lots of really bad pics plus some very lukewarm
reviews of the product.. Dont understand the fanaticaly reluctance
by some to admit the camera may be at fault on some level...Its
just like the 717 and to a lesser degree the V1 and its blueing
problem......Dont think its a bad thing for people to express
displeasure with their purchase, just like its ok for others to
express how much they love the camera.....
MATT in NE FL.

MacAttack201048 · Jan 17, 2004

I totally agree with you

What a bunch of A-Holes

Phil if you read these post please delete my account

Matthew Cromer said:
I've had all I can take.

Every other thread here is someone bashing the 828. Well you've
completely ruined STF and the DP Review forums for me. You win.
I'm out of here. I can't deal with your hateful negativity any
more. It's a camera that has nasty PF in some conditions, and
therefore you decide to destroy a forum and a community over it.
What the h*ll is wrong with you people?

All of you who delight in trashing Sony, the 828, 2/3" sensors, and
anyone who uses an 828, congratulations to you. You beat me.

Phil Askey, if you read this message, the trash needs to be taken out.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Roger1 · Jan 17, 2004

I agree!

Jerry Stevens · Jan 17, 2004

Matthew,

Your action is regretable because your contribution is considerable. However, I think it's also a sign of the times in STF. I disagree with the idea this 828 stuff is simply "more of the same as with any introduction of a new model, like in the days of the 505, 707, etc." Not so. The 828 stuff is clearly more personally vicious with uncharacteristicly high levels of personal bashing. I also do not think "you need to get a thicker skin" is really the appropriate and fair response either. We clearly need to be more civil.

I'm hanging around. Always have. I even thought about posting a neat pic recently I got with my 717, but then thought better of it getting buried under the current furor. Right now, pics are not the thing. Specs and results are the thing. So it must be inevitably, I guess.

Still, I'm hanging around. I have been immensely helped by your and other posts over the years. However, at the same time, I have not stuck my neck out with an 828 opinion only to get destroyed, so my emotional state is not tied to my posting. I am sorry to see you go. I hope you will return later. I also hope STF will find its balance soon so as not to damage others as well.

Phil--I think we need some adminstrative involvement. I really do.

Jerry
--
Gerald L. Stevens

Roger1 · Jan 17, 2004

If I come to this forum to find info on a camera, I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I don't want people sugar coating the problem to justify their $1000 purchase. Lets call a spade a spade.
-Roger

Backdoctor · Jan 17, 2004

ignore them. For pete's sake, its just a camera, and this is just photography. For most of us its a hobby and supposed to be fun.

Instead of continually defending the camera, go out and shoot the quality photos you do, and show what the camera is capable of. Ignore all else.

Do you really care what some ssh*le says about your camera? Is it going to change your opinion on it (we know that answer)? So, lighten up and focus on photos and not gear.

Hey, you and I dont really see eye to eye on much, but I believe you could get better results with a pin hole camera than the trolls with whatever get with all their high tech gear. I am sincere on that.

You are a vital helpful part of the forum here, dont let the trolls get to you. Dont read the bs posts, period.

Harris
Cp5700, N6006, D100
Nikon 70-300D ED, Sigma 70-210, Quantaray 28-80, Nikon 50mm f1.8

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

Backdoctor · Jan 17, 2004

Roger1 said:
I agree!

--
Harris
Cp5700, N6006, D100
Nikon 70-300D ED, Sigma 70-210, Quantaray 28-80, Nikon 50mm f1.8

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

Wirraway · Jan 17, 2004

Matthew

You need a break from STF, just seen on your profile that you have
made 611 posts in the past 14 days and 368 in the last 7, to become
this obsessive has obviously got to you, as many have pointed out it
is just another camera, and not worth the stress that you have got
yourself into.

Wirraway

johnd1 · Jan 17, 2004

.....purchased this camera I'd learn to work around it's faults and quit trying to respond to each and every negative post on the forums. There'simply no need to defend the camera if it does the job for you.

You guys allowed the pre production hype to overcome your good senses and when reality set in so did the dissapointment that followed.

I think you spent more time defending this camera than anyone else in forum history.

I liked the Sony's too but at some point you just gotta check the grass on the other side of the fence.
John

Matthew Cromer said:
I've had all I can take.

Every other thread here is someone bashing the 828. Well you've
completely ruined STF and the DP Review forums for me. You win.
I'm out of here. I can't deal with your hateful negativity any
more. It's a camera that has nasty PF in some conditions, and
therefore you decide to destroy a forum and a community over it.
What the h*ll is wrong with you people?

All of you who delight in trashing Sony, the 828, 2/3" sensors, and
anyone who uses an 828, congratulations to you. You beat me.

Phil Askey, if you read this message, the trash needs to be taken out.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

GeorgeL · Jan 17, 2004

I am sure gonna miss Matthew a heck of alot more than the 8.
The majority understand how you feel.
geo

Mack Cooper · Jan 17, 2004

Matthew Cromer said:
I've had all I can take.

Every other thread here is someone bashing the 828. Well you've
completely ruined STF and the DP Review forums for me. You win.
I'm out of here. I can't deal with your hateful negativity any
more. It's a camera that has nasty PF in some conditions, and
therefore you decide to destroy a forum and a community over it.
What the h*ll is wrong with you people?

All of you who delight in trashing Sony, the 828, 2/3" sensors, and
anyone who uses an 828, congratulations to you. You beat me.

Phil Askey, if you read this message, the trash needs to be taken out.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Matthew, I have always enjoyed your posts. You have been tremendously helpful, to many of us. I enjoy your post processing tips.

Please reconsider. STF will miss you. Thank you for everything.

Mack

Paul.R.Lindqvist · Jan 17, 2004

Well i dont blame u. nothing here to see, one photp posted once in a while, other then that its the same nagging over and over again.

if i would ask the same question 3 times in a week, people would start telling me to do a search...

. this obviesly dont apply to "sony should recall f828, ca/noise" topic threads that just keep popping up and repeating them self(usually same old people in it aswell.

so ya u better off taking a break,

Take care

Regards
Paul L.

--
Just ordered a Sony DSC-F828

jonwilly · Jan 17, 2004

Hi Mathew

I've only been scanning the web and this site in particular since dec 03 I needed to get back into the 21st century with my camera.

Narrowing my choice and upping my budget channelled me to the 828, and then i found this forum which in fairness highlighted a common/unique situation under certain conditions and settings with the 828, but i totally agree there are those attention seekers who even own the 828 and choose to duplicate those settings and conditions and then jump on the bandwagon when they end up with the same results ... have i decided yet ?? ... Not quite, years ago i was conned/swindled out of a substantial amount of money so i value greatly what ever my money buys and i feel that if i purchase now and there's a fix fair enough, however if the model is superceded/upgraded in a very short time scale then i would feel cheated/conned even, yes i have erred on the side of caution, i can accept that like all modern electronics a new model is on the drawing board as the current model is being marketed........... Bashing no but constructive critiscism is acceptable and useful..... CA / PF concerns me... slow raw write i'm not overly concerned about along with other minor details...Mathews piccys are an inspiration and credit to him, i dont know the man but have respect for his sentiments.

STF in the VERY short time (weeks) but more hours than my dear Lady would like, in reading threads/responses you get the feeling it is in part an elite club with a limited membership, so rather than suffer an ear bashing i restrain myself from involvement in the forum, wish i'd kept a note of the chaps name who was critical of people who own fixed lens as opposed to body and lens choice cameras, perhaps there should be three sony forums, i am being realistic but no doubt some cretin will suggest 4-5-6 etc.,

1) Sony camera forum to discuss equipment/settings and post results

2) Sony chat for those that just want to have a natter not related to the original concept of the webmasters site... "now were's my b%& y remote" (sorry Andy just making a point i think your broadshouldered enough to take it)

3) Sony Pro for those that feel they are above the other two forums, you may not think you exist but take a step back and listen to yourselves.

Did the same chap critical of the fixed lens cameras have total abhorrence of DIGITAL when it entered the market instead of reservations.

If you knew what my current camera is you would have a field day and be assured it isn't a cannon and it certainly is not represented in any known forum, however when i get either a hosting site or my own web site up and running then please on that score reserve judgement.
The SONY 828 not if i get .... its when i get.

Thanks Mathew i needed a prompt to get that of my chest.

One life.. This is it.. Its not a rehearsal

Jon

Matthew Cromer said:
I've had all I can take.

jonwilly · Jan 17, 2004

jonwilly said:
STF in the VERY short time (weeks) but more hours than my dear Lady
would like, in reading threads/responses you get the feeling it is
in part an elite club with a limited membership, so rather than
suffer an ear bashing i restrain myself from involvement in the
forum, wish i'd kept a note of the chaps name who was critical of
people who own fixed lens as opposed to body and lens choice
cameras, perhaps there should be three sony forums, i am being
realistic but no doubt some cretin will suggest 4-5-6 etc.,

1) Sony camera forum to discuss equipment/settings and post results

2) Sony chat for those that just want to have a natter not related
to the original concept of the webmasters site... "now were's my
b%& y remote" (sorry Andy just making a point i think your
broadshouldered enough to take it)

3) Sony Pro for those that feel they are above the other two
forums, you may not think you exist but take a step back and
listen to yourselves.
Did the same chap critical of the fixed lens cameras have total
abhorrence of DIGITAL when it entered the market instead of
reservations.

If you knew what my current camera is you would have a field day
and be assured it isn't a cannon and it certainly is not
represented in any known forum, however when i get either a hosting
site or my own web site up and running then please on that score
reserve judgement.
The SONY 828 not if i get .... its when i get.

Thanks Mathew i needed a prompt to get that of my chest.

One life.. This is it.. Its not a rehearsal

Jon

Matthew Cromer said:

I've had all I can take.

Click to expand...

slapshot66 · Jan 17, 2004

I think it is more than the troll posts.

Without getting into details of brands, every user at dpreview could bash ANY of my cameras and I would laugh at them. I know what I have. I know what they are capable of...and I have never been happier with or without the approval of others.

On the other hand if I wasn't happy with my purchase for whatever reason, I would have very thin skin when it comes to other people bashing my purchase.

I guess the bottom line is that if you were truly ecstatic over your purchase you would just sit back with a smug look on your face and chuckle at some of the ignorance on these boards. I know that is what I am doing...

--
'Image is everything'

jonwilly · Jan 17, 2004

jonwilly said:
jonwilly said:

STF in the VERY short time (weeks) but more hours than my dear Lady
would like, in reading threads/responses you get the feeling it is
in part an elite club with a limited membership, so rather than
suffer an ear bashing i restrain myself from involvement in the
forum, wish i'd kept a note of the chaps name who was critical of
people who own fixed lens as opposed to body and lens choice
cameras, perhaps there should be three sony forums, i am being
realistic but no doubt some cretin will suggest 4-5-6 etc.,

1) Sony camera forum to discuss equipment/settings and post results

2) Sony chat for those that just want to have a natter not related
to the original concept of the webmasters site... "now were's my
b%& y remote" (sorry Andy just making a point i think your
broadshouldered enough to take it)

3) Sony Pro for those that feel they are above the other two
forums, you may not think you exist but take a step back and
listen to yourselves.
Did the same chap critical of the fixed lens cameras have total
abhorrence of DIGITAL when it entered the market instead of
reservations.

If you knew what my current camera is you would have a field day
and be assured it isn't a cannon and it certainly is not
represented in any known forum, however when i get either a hosting
site or my own web site up and running then please on that score
reserve judgement.
The SONY 828 not if i get .... its when i get.

Thanks Mathew i needed a prompt to get that of my chest.

One life.. This is it.. Its not a rehearsal

Jon

Matthew Cromer said:

I've had all I can take.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

absence of a response says a hang of a lot

Greg Gebhardt · Jan 17, 2004

Matthew Cromer said:
I've had all I can take.

Every other thread here is someone bashing the 828. Well you've
completely ruined STF and the DP Review forums for me. You win.
I'm out of here. I can't deal with your hateful negativity any
more. It's a camera that has nasty PF in some conditions, and
therefore you decide to destroy a forum and a community over it.
What the h*ll is wrong with you people?

All of you who delight in trashing Sony, the 828, 2/3" sensors, and
anyone who uses an 828, congratulations to you. You beat me.

Phil Askey, if you read this message, the trash needs to be taken out.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

--

I, too, have considered the same action but decided to hang in here and wait till thing calm down. They will but it will be some time. I agree with you that "some" people seem to just sit and wait for the opportunity to bash the 828 over and over.

It's ashame.

Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

bauerman · Jan 17, 2004

And that seems to be the position that Matthew has taken. It's wrong in my opinion....
--
Bauerman
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

Greg Gebhardt · Jan 17, 2004

Todd Meyers said:
I really don't think you can say that the STF isn't an appropriate
forum for discussing criticisms or complaints about the 828, or
that it's not constructive. As has been stated elsewhere, Sony is
aware in a general sense of what goes on here at DPReview. I think
it's perfectly valid for people to collect their experiences here
in the hope that Sony is listening.

-Todd

Harry Behret said:

Unhappy 828 users should return their 828s after writing a letter
to Sony letting them know their feelings. Folks who were going to
buy the 828 but aren't now should write to Sony to let them know
why they have lost a sale. 828 owners who are keeping their 828s
but want some of the issues addressed should also contact Sony.
Thats constructive.

Click to expand...

--

You never miss the oportunity to bash the 828, over and over again like beating a dead horse.

Why don't you look for another camera if the 828 makes you so unhappy.

Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

Greg Gebhardt · Jan 17, 2004

bauerman said:
And that seems to be the position that Matthew has taken. It's
wrong in my opinion....
--
Bauerman
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

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