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Please help! g500 vs g400 vs s400 elph...

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joedogma

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I am in the market for a dc and my research continuosly leads me to these three cameras. I have read in a lot of places that low light focusing is an issue especially with the minoltas although I can find reported problems of this in almost all cameras I have researched. I am looking for a point and shoot camera that is portable, durable, and of course, takes great pics :)

I am going on an alaskan cruise this summer with my wife so I need a camera that is competent but not bulky (I HATE carrying around extra bags etc...) I am currently leaning towards the s400 elph but I believe it is a little overpriced and the g500 presents such a great value that I can't dismiss it (btw cnet just gave it a decent review...) The g400 appears to be a perfect compromise between the two, a little smaller, only 4MP, more competitive priceetc..but user feedback for the g400 is very limited on the web (please help!) If anyone has any advice please post...
 
I have a G400, and I've been pleased with it. Yes, low light focus could be improved, but it isn't as bad as some would make you believe. Also, it has several scene modes that for some reason or another, improve the ability of the camera to focus lock. If you shoot a photo without a focus lock, oftentimes, the photo is still in focus anyway (i.e., there appears to be a bug with the focus lock indicator).

I chose the G400 because of its small size, and because it had scene modes and a manual mode. The canon has no scene modes or manual mode (i.e., you can't select a fast shutter speed for action shots). I did not choose the G500 because its movie mode is limited to 30 seconds (The G400 has unlimited moviemode, and the Canon S400 is limited to 3 minutes). Also, the G400 is fast, with minimal shutter lag, fast startup time. The ads say that you can pull out the camera, turn it on, snap an picture, and turn it off in 1.5 seconds, and I believe it.

In theory, the G500 should produce better image quality due to the size of the sensor, but in reality, I usually only print 4X6 photos, so I doubt I would notice much of a difference in quality.

The Canon S400 is a very well respected camera, and I almost bought it. But, on paper, the G400 had better features. I never directly compared the two cameras, so I can't say for certain that the quality of photo is better with one vs the other.

I'm happy with my decision. I've taken over 1000 photos since I've had it (Dec), and printed out probably about 100 or so. I've been happy with the quality of my prints, and my parents love the photos I e-mail them of our kids.

I have posted some photos at http://www.pbase.com/dpv if you are interested.

DPV
joedogma said:
I am in the market for a dc and my research continuosly leads me to
these three cameras. I have read in a lot of places that low light
focusing is an issue especially with the minoltas although I can
find reported problems of this in almost all cameras I have
researched. I am looking for a point and shoot camera that is
portable, durable, and of course, takes great pics :)
I am going on an alaskan cruise this summer with my wife so I need
a camera that is competent but not bulky (I HATE carrying around
extra bags etc...) I am currently leaning towards the s400 elph
but I believe it is a little overpriced and the g500 presents such
a great value that I can't dismiss it (btw cnet just gave it a
decent review...) The g400 appears to be a perfect compromise
between the two, a little smaller, only 4MP, more competitive
priceetc..but user feedback for the g400 is very limited on the web
(please help!) If anyone has any advice please post...
Click to expand...
 
DPV said:
I chose the G400 because of its small size, and because it had
scene modes and a manual mode. The canon has no scene modes or
manual mode (i.e., you can't select a fast shutter speed for action
shots). I did not choose the G500 because its movie mode is
limited to 30 seconds (The G400 has unlimited moviemode, and the
Canon S400 is limited to 3 minutes). Also, the G400 is fast, with
minimal shutter lag, fast startup time. The ads say that you can
pull out the camera, turn it on, snap an picture, and turn it off
in 1.5 seconds, and I believe it.

In theory, the G500 should produce better image quality due to the
size of the sensor, but in reality, I usually only print 4X6
photos, so I doubt I would notice much of a difference in quality.

The Canon S400 is a very well respected camera, and I almost bought
it. But, on paper, the G400 had better features. I never directly
compared the two cameras, so I can't say for certain that the
quality of photo is better with one vs the other.

I'm happy with my decision. I've taken over 1000 photos since I've
had it (Dec), and printed out probably about 100 or so. I've been
happy with the quality of my prints, and my parents love the photos
I e-mail them of our kids.

I have posted some photos at http://www.pbase.com/dpv if you are interested.

DPV
joedogma said:
I am in the market for a dc and my research continuosly leads me to
these three cameras. I have read in a lot of places that low light
focusing is an issue especially with the minoltas although I can
find reported problems of this in almost all cameras I have
researched. I am looking for a point and shoot camera that is
portable, durable, and of course, takes great pics :)
I am going on an alaskan cruise this summer with my wife so I need
a camera that is competent but not bulky (I HATE carrying around
extra bags etc...) I am currently leaning towards the s400 elph
but I believe it is a little overpriced and the g500 presents such
a great value that I can't dismiss it (btw cnet just gave it a
decent review...) The g400 appears to be a perfect compromise
between the two, a little smaller, only 4MP, more competitive
priceetc..but user feedback for the g400 is very limited on the web
(please help!) If anyone has any advice please post...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not to muddy up the waters here...but if you can wait until just before the summer,you may have more choices to make re: different models to choose from.

That said, I would go for the G500, but you will have to be careful as some have focus issues. Good low-light performer though.

If you are going on a cruise,I would get something with more zoom.
(Pentax 550,...or 555 ,... [5x zoom]....Sony V1, ...[good low light....4x zoom.]
or if money is no object,... Minolta A1 ...or....Sony 717.

However if you're into just simple snapshots and want to save a bundle...,
get a Minolta XT,takes nice snaps and is good value for the money.

Hope this helps. or not?
--
Bill W.

'What happens if you get scared half to death,twice?'
 
joedogma said:
I am in the market for a dc and my research continuosly leads me to
these three cameras. I have read in a lot of places that low light
focusing is an issue especially with the minoltas although I can
find reported problems of this in almost all cameras I have
researched. I am looking for a point and shoot camera that is
portable, durable, and of course, takes great pics :)
I am going on an alaskan cruise this summer with my wife so I need
a camera that is competent but not bulky (I HATE carrying around
extra bags etc...) I am currently leaning towards the s400 elph
but I believe it is a little overpriced and the g500 presents such
a great value that I can't dismiss it (btw cnet just gave it a
decent review...) The g400 appears to be a perfect compromise
between the two, a little smaller, only 4MP, more competitive
priceetc..but user feedback for the g400 is very limited on the web
(please help!) If anyone has any advice please post...
Click to expand...
PS,.....I should add while the g400 and the s400 are respectable cameras,I

think you will be dissapointed with either.(for various minor reasons).. No offense to any owners of these cams.
--
Bill W.

'What happens if you get scared half to death,twice?'
 
I know of two dpreview.com posters that have owned both the Canon S400 and the Konica KD-510z/Minolta G500 (as well as other cameras -- they are both experienced digicam users).

They both prefer the Konica KD-510z/Minolta G500:

One is Nyugen -- here's what he had to say:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1001&message=5820154

Another is Adam -- here's what he had to say:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6277866

BTW, I have seen some problems from some users cameras (unable to focus in moderate room light when using zoom, flash not throttling down correctly), so there do seem to be some QC issues.

My theory is that this is being caused by a variance between the signal strength from the Sony CCD (but this is only a theory). Dpreview.com forum poster Larro is one user who's camera didn't work properly (his replacement camera is working great though).

In any event, I'd make sure to purchase it from a vendor with a no restocking fee policy (for example: http://www.jandr.com ), just in case you get one that doesn't perform as expected. Of course, the same thing would apply to ANY camera you choose.

Also, make SURE not to buy Sandisk standard 256mb Secure Digital Cards in sizes over 128mb. Only Panasonic and Toshiba SD is considered compatible in 256mb size. Only Panasonic is considered compatible in 512mb size. If you use incompatible memory, you're asking for problems (slow startup times, file corruption, etc.).

I have seen users that have had no problems with Lexar's "High Speed 32x SD), or Simpltech SD in 256mb size (even though these are not officially supported by Konica-Minolta) . I've read that these guys are using "rebranded" Panasonic components, but I have no way to verify it for sure.

The "big 3" manufacturers of SD are Panasonic, Toshiba, and Sandisk. So, if you buy a different brand (even from a manufacturer that makes their own cards in other types), you're probably getting components from one of these guys (and I'd avoid Sandisk standard media -- as Panasonic media in larger sizes is about 5 times as fast).

Otherwise, you're "rolling the dice (possible slow startup times, corrupted files, etc.).

BTW, PC World compared 10 popular camera models on December 9th. The new Minolta G500 was compared to the Nikon Coolpix 3100, Canon Powershot A70, Canon Powershot SD100, Kodak DX6440, Pentax Optio 555, Sony Cybershot DSC-P10, Fujifilm Finepix F700, and Minolta DiMAGE XT.

It's image quality was rated as Very Good (the best image quality out of all models tested).

The comparision included comments like "highly impressive images" on the main review page showing the 10 cameras compared; noting "The G500 performed very well in our image-quality tests, earning the best marks overall in this round of point-and-shoot models"

In an explanation of how they tested Image Quality, they said this:

""To gauge picture quality, we take a series of shots, with and without flash, at 640 by 480 resolution and at the camera's highest resolution. We photograph a complex still life and a mannequin to see how well each camera captures details and subtle colorings such as skin tones. A panel of judges reviews the on-screen and printed photos and assigns image-quality scores; we then average those scores. "

You can also see some albums comparing the Konica KD-510z (a.k.a., Minolta G500) to some other models at these links. Note the shadow detail in roof tiles, saturation, metering, etc.

http://galleriet.akamera.no/albuq42

http://galleriet.akamera.no/albuq43

http://galleriet.akamera.no/albuq44

http://galleriet.akamera.no/albuq45

http://galleriet.akamera.no/albuq46

You can see some photos from my Konica KD-510z here, as well as links to my user review:

http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z

--
JimC
 
I think you'll be happy with either. I had the same dilemma, choosing a new compact camera. I went with the G500 over the canon s400, mainly for the better macro. I didn't consider the G400 because of its smaller sensor (the s400 uses the same sensor size as the G500).

For quick snapshots and minimal to no post-processing --> Minolta G500

If you do get the S400, realize that pictures come out looking their best after some sharpening.

If you are in the market for something a little bigger, you'll have many more options (more manual controls, more zoom, etc..) but you'll lose the pocketability.

If I was going on your vacation, I'd bring my UZ (olympus 2100 UZ) - a big camera that takes incredible pictures as well as the G500, which would be in my pocket at the Captain's Ball when I wouldn't want to lug around a bigger camera.

My best advice - whatever you get, give yourself plenty of time to learn all the features and how it operates in all different conditions. You don't want to come back from vacation and realize that you're setting were wrong.

Good luck. Let us know what you pick.
joedogma said:
I am in the market for a dc and my research continuosly leads me to
these three cameras. I have read in a lot of places that low light
focusing is an issue especially with the minoltas although I can
find reported problems of this in almost all cameras I have
researched. I am looking for a point and shoot camera that is
portable, durable, and of course, takes great pics :)
I am going on an alaskan cruise this summer with my wife so I need
a camera that is competent but not bulky (I HATE carrying around
extra bags etc...) I am currently leaning towards the s400 elph
but I believe it is a little overpriced and the g500 presents such
a great value that I can't dismiss it (btw cnet just gave it a
decent review...) The g400 appears to be a perfect compromise
between the two, a little smaller, only 4MP, more competitive
priceetc..but user feedback for the g400 is very limited on the web
(please help!) If anyone has any advice please post...
Click to expand...
 
Bill W. said:
PS,.....I should add while the g400 and the s400 are respectable
cameras,I
think you will be dissapointed with either.(for various minor
reasons).. No offense to any owners of these cams.
--
Bill W.
Click to expand...
Say What???!!! Canon has sold thousands of S400 cameras, and I'm willing to bet you most people are happy with them (word of mouth sells lots of cameras). I don't know what minolta's numbers are, but I'm sure there are plenty of owners of the G500 and G400 who don't post here and are happy with the cameras.

Two of my associates have Canon S400's, and they are both thrilled with the camera.

What reason do you have to think that he would be dissapointed?

My guess is that the average user will be happy with whichever camera he chooses. This is not rocket science, really. You pick up the camera, turn it on, and take a photo. In most cases, you will get your photo.

Now, if you are a professional photographer, working in your studio, trying to create the ultimate in photographic art, then I can see your point. But this guy just wants a small camera to take with him on his cruise.

BTW: I do agree with your assessment to wait if you can. Lots of new cameras will be introduced in the next few months, so that you may have more to choose from (since the vacation isn't until summertime).
 
DPV said:
Bill W. said:
PS,.....I should add while the g400 and the s400 are respectable
cameras,I
think you will be dissapointed with either.(for various minor
reasons).. No offense to any owners of these cams.
--
Bill W.
Click to expand...
Say What???!!! Canon has sold thousands of S400 cameras, and I'm
willing to bet you most people are happy with them (word of mouth
sells lots of cameras). I don't know what minolta's numbers are,
but I'm sure there are plenty of owners of the G500 and G400 who
don't post here and are happy with the cameras.

Two of my associates have Canon S400's, and they are both thrilled
with the camera.

What reason do you have to think that he would be dissapointed?

My guess is that the average user will be happy with whichever
camera he chooses. This is not rocket science, really. You pick
up the camera, turn it on, and take a photo. In most cases, you
will get your photo.

Now, if you are a professional photographer, working in your
studio, trying to create the ultimate in photographic art, then I
can see your point. But this guy just wants a small camera to take
with him on his cruise.

BTW: I do agree with your assessment to wait if you can. Lots of
new cameras will be introduced in the next few months, so that you
may have more to choose from (since the vacation isn't until
summertime).
Click to expand...
Well,I still stand by my post/suggestions.

Sure the S400 is a nice camera.

But I have seen alot of s400 indoor shots that have MORE yellow cast then some other sub-compacts. And this is fact. All S400 camera owners say they are happy with their cameras (or are they?...) but they won't tell you about the yellowish indoor shots. Again,my 2 cents.

I still don't think he'll be happy with s400 indoor pics, roaming the halls of the cruise liner. The g400 I don't have much to go on except complaints about low-light indoor issues. .... Sorry.
--
Bill W.

'What happens if you get scared half to death,twice?'
 
Thanks for all the great advice. Looks like the minolta models compare nicely to the elph. I see the g500 has lots of pleased owners. I am still interested to hear more about the g400 however. DPV took some really nice point and shoot shots with the g400...thanks again!
 
Outside in good light, the G400 is a joy. It's small, very fast and takes good pictures. In less than good light, it's a complete pain to me. It will not lock focus in anything other than good lighting. Sure, you can shoot through without focus lock, and your photos might come out ok - but there's no guarantee it'll happen. Every other small digicam I've used (S400, Optio S4, P10, P8) has consistently locked focus and produced consistently better focused shots in lower light conditions than the G400.

I'm not talking about taking pictures in the dark here, either. I can set in a room with 4 40w bulbs burning overhead, focus on a high contrast subject 6' away with the camera at wde angle, and more often than not the camera will fail to lock focus - and pictures with focus lock are consistently sharper than than ones without.

If Minolta would address the low light issue, they'd have a real competitor to the S400 and some of the other top ultra compact cameras. The poor low light focus is a big limiter if you plan to use the camera anywhere other than outdoors, though.
 
With all this noise for G500 about the low light focus problems that result in out of focus pictures and the erratic flash behavior which sometimes is ok next moment is dark, and you still want to buy this camera! Well it's your money. I have waisted mine on it.

Wait for new models from Canon or get the S400. I am pretty sure that they will come out plenty of new Canons or other brands in March right after the PMA show in late February. You will still have time to choose, buy and learn any camera.
See what I mean, and I get many times this flash output problem.



 
Just wanted to add that this isn't normal, for anyone just now tuning into the forums for G500. Matt obviously has a bad camera and his problem is that he can't take it back (bought overseas).

General advice for any camera you buy, make sure there is a good return policy, for defective products as well as if you don't like it. A lot of the cheapest prices on the net gauge you with 15-20% re-stocking fees for returns, some even for defective returns. Buyer beware.
Matt12 said:
With all this noise for G500 about the low light focus problems
that result in out of focus pictures and the erratic flash behavior
which sometimes is ok next moment is dark, and you still want to
buy this camera! Well it's your money. I have waisted mine on it.
Wait for new models from Canon or get the S400. I am pretty sure
that they will come out plenty of new Canons or other brands in
March right after the PMA show in late February. You will still
have time to choose, buy and learn any camera.
See what I mean, and I get many times this flash output problem.



Click to expand...
 
Check out my G400 picture gallery also:
http://www.klettke.org/photos/g400.html

I really enjoy my G400, but I have a friend who has the Canon S400 and he loves it. I don't think you can go wrong if you stick to one of the "trusted" brands.

Scott
joedogma said:
Thanks for all the great advice. Looks like the minolta models
compare nicely to the elph. I see the g500 has lots of pleased
owners. I am still interested to hear more about the g400 however.
DPV took some really nice point and shoot shots with the
g400...thanks again!
Click to expand...
 
Just something you might want to consider: if you take pictures of your family indoors or any other group photos where everyone stands fairly close to the camera (within a couple of meters), the maximum wide angle might be a concern.

G400: 34mm wide angle
G500: 39mm wide angle

A world of difference.
 
Glen Tang said:
Just something you might want to consider: if you take pictures of
your family indoors or any other group photos where everyone stands
fairly close to the camera (within a couple of meters), the maximum
wide angle might be a concern.

G400: 34mm wide angle
G500: 39mm wide angle

A world of difference.
Click to expand...
Also consider flash range. Both the G400 and G500 appear to have better range than their stated specs. However, the G500 is rated significantly better in this area by Konica-Minolta.

I looked closely at flash range before deciding on a my latest camera (Konica KD-510z/Minolta G500) , since I like to take lots of indoor photos at family gatherings, parties, etc.

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z
 
Matt12 said:
See what I mean, and I get many times this flash output problem.>

http://image.pbase.com/u36/kiriakos/medium/24515509.PICT0185.jpg:

http://image.pbase.com/u36/kiriakos/medium/24515550.PICT0187.jpg:
Click to expand...
The other evening, I was outside and tried to shoot a picture of my car. Thre or four pictures in a row came back underexposed. The flash refused to do much more than blink. Then I realized that the only thing coming out in my images was the side reflector on the vehicle. I changed my camera angle slightly and the flash fired away at higher intensity. Still a lousy picture, but better exposed.

Perhaps your above results. matt12, is a similar behavior? An xmas bulb might have reflected enough light back into the flash to throttle it down?
 
baxters said:
Matt12 said:
See what I mean, and I get many times this flash output problem.>

http://image.pbase.com/u36/kiriakos/medium/24515509.PICT0185.jpg:

http://image.pbase.com/u36/kiriakos/medium/24515550.PICT0187.jpg:
Click to expand...
The other evening, I was outside and tried to shoot a picture of my
car. Thre or four pictures in a row came back underexposed. The
flash refused to do much more than blink. Then I realized that the
only thing coming out in my images was the side reflector on the
vehicle. I changed my camera angle slightly and the flash fired
away at higher intensity. Still a lousy picture, but better exposed.

Perhaps your above results. matt12, is a similar behavior? An xmas
bulb might have reflected enough light back into the flash to
throttle it down?
Click to expand...
 
Unda Covalava said:
I didn't consider the G400 because of its smaller sensor
Click to expand...
after you wrote that i cheked it out
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Minolta/
and saw the g400 uses a 1/2.5 as opposed to a 1/1.8 on the g500

a bit more investigation
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0210/02100402sensorsizes.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/ (bottom)

and a quick calculation puts the pixel pitch on the g400 at 2.4 micrometers and on the g500 at 3.1 micrometers.

Gosh this could be one case when the 5MP version has less noise than the 4MP of the same camera.

thanks for pointing that one out.

darren
 
I've got your back, darrenb.

Here's some more info on the effect of pixel size to image quality: http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF7.html
darrenb said:
Unda Covalava said:
I didn't consider the G400 because of its smaller sensor
Click to expand...
after you wrote that i cheked it out
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Minolta/
and saw the g400 uses a 1/2.5 as opposed to a 1/1.8 on the g500

a bit more investigation
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0210/02100402sensorsizes.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/ (bottom)
and a quick calculation puts the pixel pitch on the g400 at 2.4
micrometers and on the g500 at 3.1 micrometers.

Gosh this could be one case when the 5MP version has less noise
than the 4MP of the same camera.

thanks for pointing that one out.

darren
Click to expand...
 
G400 seems to be the perfect one
Comparing to g500 it is much more smaller, lighter, faster
comparing to S400 it is more versatile and has manual fucntion
--
Mark K
http://www.pbase.com/mark_k
 
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