Invert lenses for macro G5.- FD or EF lens??

lucanor · Jan 11, 2004

Hello everybody. I'm a G5 owner.

2-3 months ago I've read a post from M.Plonksy about invert a 50mm f1.4 lens in a G3. That way increases the macro power.

I've been looking in eBay and others internet stores but I don't know if there is any difference between using a Canon FD or and EF lens in my G5. As far I know, the FD are "more manual" while the EF are "autofocusing lenses". I don't know wich is better to use in reverse position for my G5.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for my bad english.

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

Dr. Eric A. Durant · Jan 11, 2004

I've done macro shots on the G3 + LA-DC58B + 58/52mm macro coupler + EF 50mm f/1.8 II (wide open). I've also used this 50mm lens reversed in other combinations with my 10D, all with excellent results. On the G3 at 28.8mm (maximum telephoto), the image circle doesn't quite fill the frame. Since the reversed lens isn't electrically connected, I'd think an FD lens would work just as well -- the AF capability of the EF lens is of no use here; you'll want to switch the lens to MF. The focus on the reversed lens has little (negligible?) effect IAC -- the focusing is primarily done through the non-reversed lens.

-- Eric

lucanor wrote:
[...]

lucanor said:
2-3 months ago I've read a post from M.Plonksy about invert a 50mm
f1.4 lens in a G3. That way increases the macro power.
I've been looking in eBay and others internet stores but I don't
know if there is any difference between using a Canon FD or and EF
lens in my G5. As far I know, the FD are "more manual" while the EF
are "autofocusing lenses". I don't know wich is better to use in
reverse position for my G5.

[...]

Chris Beney · Jan 11, 2004

lucanor wrote:
As far I know, the FD are "more manual" while the EF

lucanor said:
are "autofocusing lenses". I don't know wich is better to use in
reverse position for my G5.

Go for the one with the biggest aperture, that will give the least vignetting. Focus etc is virtually irrelevant.
Chris Beney

Max@Home · Jan 11, 2004

Evening again, long time no see, Lucanor!

lucanor said:
Hello everybody. I'm a G5 owner.
2-3 months ago I've read a post from M.Plonksy about invert a 50mm
f1.4 lens in a G3. That way increases the macro power.
I've been looking in eBay and others internet stores but I don't
know if there is any difference between using a Canon FD or and EF
lens in my G5. As far I know, the FD are "more manual" while the EF
are "autofocusing lenses". I don't know wich is better to use in
reverse position for my G5.

Seems again our interests meet!

Please see:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=7165316

On the adaption:

The FD lens'es diaphragma is spring-loaded and 'closes' when you take the lens of the camera.

Therefor you need to do the following to open up the diaphragma without a camera attached (since you will be using it reversed)

Take the lens end cap (the protector of the 'bottom' lens that is closest to the camera in normal operation) and open it by removing the 'bottom'.

On the cap, on the three bayonet lips, you will find a small 'nudge', normally the cap only 'screws tight' till this 'nudge'. Take a sharp hobby-knife and carefully cut of the 'nudge'.

After this action you should be able to attach the cap and turn the cap clockwise untill the lens 'clicks tight' as on a camera, and then the diaphragma opens.

Please mind, that in order to remove the cap again you need to press the 'lens release button' on the lensmount.

Hope my (and your) English is sufficient for this explanation ;-))

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

Max@Home · Jan 11, 2004

lucanor said:
Hello everybody. I'm a G5 owner.

...congrats on (the choice of) the G5!

So it finally won your contest between S400/G3/G5/CP5400/V1?

Nice to hear again from you!

again, kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

lucanor · Jan 11, 2004

Yes, Max, I finally bought Canon G5 as birthday self-present, last November, and I very happy with it.
Nice to be another time in this forum and hear from you.
See you,

lucanor

Max@Home said:
lucanor said:

Hello everybody. I'm a G5 owner.

Click to expand...

...congrats on (the choice of) the G5!

So it finally won your contest between S400/G3/G5/CP5400/V1?

Nice to hear again from you!

again, kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

lucanor · Jan 11, 2004

Good night everybody:

Thank yoy for the help. After reading your messages, I realize that an FD lens would be useful in G3-5 digital cameras, and they are cheaper than current EF and others lenses. The autofocus and other issues aren't useful for the reverse position, isn't it?

Ok, then I've read the thread posted by Max@home and I think it's very interesting, because I don't know where in Spain will have an adapter FD-52mm.

Now, my question is: which lense is better, Canon 50mm f1.4 or Canon 50mm f1.8? In eBay there is a 1.8 much cheaper than the 1.4. There are many variation in quality between the two? If not, I'll bought the 1,8.
Thanks in advance.

Max@Home said:
Please see:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=7165316

On the adaption:

The FD lens'es diaphragma is spring-loaded and 'closes' when you
take the lens of the camera.

Therefor you need to do the following to open up the diaphragma
without a camera attached (since you will be using it reversed)

Take the lens end cap (the protector of the 'bottom' lens that is
closest to the camera in normal operation) and open it by removing
the 'bottom'.

On the cap, on the three bayonet lips, you will find a small
'nudge', normally the cap only 'screws tight' till this 'nudge'.
Take a sharp hobby-knife and carefully cut of the 'nudge'.

After this action you should be able to attach the cap and turn the
cap clockwise untill the lens 'clicks tight' as on a camera, and
then the diaphragma opens.

Please mind, that in order to remove the cap again you need to
press the 'lens release button' on the lensmount.

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

Max@Home · Jan 11, 2004

Good night Lucanor,

lucanor said:
Good night everybody:
Thank yoy for the help. After reading your messages, I realize that
an FD lens would be useful in G3-5 digital cameras, and they are
cheaper than current EF and others lenses. The autofocus and other
issues aren't useful for the reverse position, isn't it?

Correct!

lucanor said:
Ok, then I've read the thread posted by Max@home and I think it's
very interesting, because I don't know where in Spain will have an
adapter FD-52mm.
Now, my question is: which lense is better, Canon 50mm f1.4 or
Canon 50mm f1.8? In eBay there is a 1.8 much cheaper than the 1.4.
There are many variation in quality between the two? If not, I'll
bought the 1,8.

The 1.4 is better suited for this job, as it has a larger 'opening' it gives less vignetting. I have the 1.4 and it does vignet a little, you have to crop approx 95~98% to get it vignet-less. As the 1.8 has a smaller 'opening', it will vignet slightly more.

lucanor said:
Thanks in advance.

You're welcome

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

Orio · Jan 11, 2004

I've got a G5 and two reverse lenses, a Canon 50/1.4 and a Pentax 50/1.4.

The Canon gives dark corners at full zoom, whereas the Pentax doesn't. The Pentax is a considerably shorter lens which gives you a larger angle of view, enough to get rid of the dark corners.

Examples at: http://www.pbase.com/orio/macros

ralph m · Jan 11, 2004

I use a Minolta 50mm 1.4 MD lens.. and it work fine. Shop for any "manual" lens... Pentax, Minolta, Canon, Nikon.. it doesn't matter. The only difference may be size of the threads to couple to the adapter. I use a 58 to 55 macro coupler that costs about $8. The lens I am using goes for about $40 - $45 dollars on Ebay and there are always some to choose from. The Canon FD will probably be about the same. Nikon will cost you more... because it is more sought after. But try to get the 1.4 vs the 1.8 as it won't be that much more and the results will be better. Good luck.

lucanor said:
Hello everybody. I'm a G5 owner.
2-3 months ago I've read a post from M.Plonksy about invert a 50mm
f1.4 lens in a G3. That way increases the macro power.
I've been looking in eBay and others internet stores but I don't
know if there is any difference between using a Canon FD or and EF
lens in my G5. As far I know, the FD are "more manual" while the EF
are "autofocusing lenses". I don't know wich is better to use in
reverse position for my G5.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for my bad english.

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

--
REM

Max@Home · Jan 11, 2004

Evening, Orio,

First of all, Congrats on the beautiful gallery at PBase, have added you to my favourite artists list immediately! ;-))

Orio wrote:
(cropped by M@H)

Orio said:
The Canon gives dark corners at full zoom, whereas the Pentax
doesn't. The Pentax is a considerably shorter lens which gives you
a larger angle of view, enough to get rid of the dark corners.

Second, Could you please elaborate on the Pentax 50-1.4?
What is the exact type, and what is the filter-thread?

The info would be highly appreciated!

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

Orio · Jan 11, 2004

Max, thanks for you kind comments! It's afternoon here in Australia btw.

My Pentax is the

SMC Pentax-M 1:1.4 50 mm, 49mm front thread.

The front thread is smaller than on the Canon (55mm if I'm not mistaken), yet it still has a larger angle of view.

The colours from the Canon are better (as you might expect), but adjusting the white balance of the Pentax pictures afterwards makes up for it.

My Canon 50-1.4 is sitting on a shelf and doesn't get out much.

Max@Home said:
Evening, Orio,

First of all, Congrats on the beautiful gallery at PBase, have
added you to my favourite artists list immediately! ;-))

Orio wrote:

(cropped by M@H)

Max@Home said:
Max@Home said:

The Canon gives dark corners at full zoom, whereas the Pentax
doesn't. The Pentax is a considerably shorter lens which gives you
a larger angle of view, enough to get rid of the dark corners.

Click to expand...

Second, Could you please elaborate on the Pentax 50-1.4?
What is the exact type, and what is the filter-thread?

The info would be highly appreciated!

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

Chris Beney · Jan 12, 2004

ralph m said:
I use a Minolta 50mm 1.4 MD lens.. and it work fine. Shop for any
"manual" lens... Pentax, Minolta, Canon, Nikon.. it doesn't
matter.

I used a Pentax, a f1.8 I think as I happened to have one. But I also removed all the redundant focussing rings and ended up with a lens that does much less blocking of the light on very close-up subjects:

Chris Beney

lucanor · Jan 12, 2004

Chris Beney said:
I used a Pentax, a f1.8 I think as I happened to have one. But I
also removed all the redundant focussing rings and ended up with a
lens that does much less blocking of the light on very close-up
subjects:

Thank you, Chris. That seems to be very interesting, because of the less blocking of the light. I never thought in this question. I supose it will be some difficult to removed the pieces, isn't it?
Kindests regards.

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

Chris Beney · Jan 12, 2004

lucanor said:
Thank you, Chris. That seems to be very interesting, because of the
less blocking of the light. I never thought in this question. I
supose it will be some difficult to removed the pieces, isn't it?
Kindests regards.

Depends a bit obviously on mechanical skill. No it wasn't very difficult, but I forget the detail. It would have been remove the rubber focussing ring I expect then take out stop screws and carefully remove things. I remember a lot of grease on the focussing threads you can see in the picture. I also remember the iris diaphragm lever had to have a little spot of glue to keep the iris fully open. Even if you don't remove surplus parts, it might be worth fixing the iris fully open.
Golden rule: don't remove or loosen anything with a glass lens attached.
Chris Beney

mayt444 · Jan 12, 2004

Chris Beney said:
lucanor said:

Thank you, Chris. That seems to be very interesting, because of the
less blocking of the light. I never thought in this question. I
supose it will be some difficult to removed the pieces, isn't it?
Kindests regards.

Click to expand...

Depends a bit obviously on mechanical skill. No it wasn't very
difficult, but I forget the detail. It would have been remove the
rubber focussing ring I expect then take out stop screws and
carefully remove things. I remember a lot of grease on the
focussing threads you can see in the picture. I also remember the
iris diaphragm lever had to have a little spot of glue to keep the
iris fully open. Even if you don't remove surplus parts, it might
be worth fixing the iris fully open.
Golden rule: don't remove or loosen anything with a glass lens
attached.
Chris Beney

Hello Chris

My name is Clayton. I recently purchased a G5 and have always been interested in macro work. I would like to try the reversed lens on my G5. Is that a 52mm Lensmate adapter on your G3? I have the 52mm on my G5.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Clayton

Chris Beney · Jan 12, 2004

mayt444 said:
mayt444 said:

Click to expand...

Hello Chris
My name is Clayton. I recently purchased a G5 and have always been
interested in macro work. I would like to try the reversed lens on
my G5. Is that a 52mm Lensmate adapter on your G3? I have the 52mm
on my G5.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Clayton

Yes, with a 52 to 49 step down adaptor ring and a 49 to 49 male-both- ends ring to connect to the lens. 52 male to 49 male would have held the lens closer to the G3 with probably a little less vignetting.
Chris Beney

lucanor · Jan 13, 2004

Chris Beney said:
Yes, with a 52 to 49 step down adaptor ring and a 49 to 49
male-both- ends ring to connect to the lens. 52 male to 49 male
would have held the lens closer to the G3 with probably a little
less vignetting.

Thank you, Chris. It's very difficult to find "52 male to 49 male"?

About vignetting, which lens is better, 50mm 1.4 or 50mm 1.2? I think is 1.2, but 50mm 1.4 is cheaper, isnt'it?

Another question: if I decided to buy a 50mm lens, it's necessary to buy a flash? In this case, what type of flash is better?
Thanks in advance, and sorry for my multiquestion letter.

--
http://www.iespana.es/tabloide

Chris Beney · Jan 13, 2004

lucanor said:
Thank you, Chris. It's very difficult to find "52 male to 49 male"?

There is a firm in the UK who makes them to order but the combination I use is quite satisfactory.

lucanor said:
About vignetting, which lens is better, 50mm 1.4 or 50mm 1.2? I
think is 1.2, but 50mm 1.4 is cheaper, isnt'it?

I think the bigger the aperture the less vignetting, though doubtless the actual layout of some lenses might affect that.

lucanor said:
Another question: if I decided to buy a 50mm lens, it's necessary
to buy a flash? In this case, what type of flash is better?

Well ideally of course, and especially for moving subjects, a ring flash but that is very expensive. Ring florescent tubes are cheaper. I have not used either. With the cut-away lens arrangement that I had illustrated, ordinary light from the side allows photographs for some purposes, especially where uneven lighting can be tolerated. For example I sometines do greatly enlarged detail of very small areas of old maps or manuscripts in a library where flash is discouraged. But yes, I suppose I do tend to use the 420 or 550 flash units for indoor macros, bouncing them off ceiling, or sometimes off paper sheets held near the camera.
I would think the built-in flash would not be very satisfactory.
Chris Beney

Invert lenses for macro G5.- FD or EF lens??

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