FZ cameras not "indoor cameras?" - NOT!!

John,

Very well done. I share your enthusiasm for this camera, but I can't match your ability to to take lovely pics like this. I only hope that the guys and gals saw these pics before they were put off by what subsequently happened to this thread. Keep it coming!

Bryan.

John_Reed said:

It bums me to keep seeing all the posts about how these cameras
just can't hack it indoors, "good for outside, but..." I've had
lots of fun with my FZ1 (now an FZ2 convert) in available light,
indoors, in lots of different situations. Just to exemplify this
experience, I assembled the 11 shots I've posted so far in my
Usefilm portfolio, in the order they were taken and posted. The
last two were taken by my FZ2, the others before conversion.
Shooting conditions are listed with each photo in the portfolio, if
you're interested in looking. I think there are plenty of low-light
but useable situations indoors - if you look at the "Santa" shot,
he was snapped at 1/5 of a second; is that low enough light? Here's
the list of URLs:

http://www.usefilm.com/image/153774.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/158606.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/182224.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/188356.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/203746.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/228932.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/234595.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/252113.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/256471.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/273003.html - "Santa" shot
http://www.usefilm.com/image/276078.html - panning shot inside a
carousel

I can't believe that people with FZ10s couldn't do equally well or
better than these shots, considering the greater range of control
flexibility they have!
--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

Click to expand...

Thanks Bryan! In the post prior to yours, I set forth my real reason for launching this thread in the first place, but no one seemed to notice. Basically, it wasn't to launch an A1 comparison again, God knows we've beaten that subject to death! It was just to demonstrate that, within the visible light spectrum, i.e., where there's enough illumination to make a subject interesting enough to photograph, the Panasonic FZs RULE, since they can shoot handheld photos at way lower shutter speeds, and thus much lower light levels, than can, for example, an Oly C-750.

Erasmus41 said:

Very well done. I share your enthusiasm for this camera, but I
can't match your ability to to take lovely pics like this. I only
hope that the guys and gals saw these pics before they were put off
by what subsequently happened to this thread. Keep it coming!

Bryan.

John_Reed said:

It bums me to keep seeing all the posts about how these cameras
just can't hack it indoors, "good for outside, but..." I've had
lots of fun with my FZ1 (now an FZ2 convert) in available light,
indoors, in lots of different situations. Just to exemplify this
experience, I assembled the 11 shots I've posted so far in my
Usefilm portfolio, in the order they were taken and posted. The
last two were taken by my FZ2, the others before conversion.
Shooting conditions are listed with each photo in the portfolio, if
you're interested in looking. I think there are plenty of low-light
but useable situations indoors - if you look at the "Santa" shot,
he was snapped at 1/5 of a second; is that low enough light? Here's
the list of URLs:

http://www.usefilm.com/image/153774.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/158606.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/182224.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/188356.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/203746.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/228932.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/234595.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/252113.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/256471.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/273003.html - "Santa" shot
http://www.usefilm.com/image/276078.html - panning shot inside a
carousel

I can't believe that people with FZ10s couldn't do equally well or
better than these shots, considering the greater range of control
flexibility they have!
--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

Apparently none of you found anything of interest in Tim's explanations, but I personally learned a lot about a subject that I am very curious about.

If you want to walk around with blinders on - that's fine with me. Many of you seem to take everything as though one were criticising your own children. For my $1,150.CDN investment I have the right to expect a camera that works as it should - in every important respect. That doesn't mean I expect a perfect camera - I haven't had one of those yet.

I think this is indicative of the low level of interest in using this forum as a learning tool, not just about Panasonic cameras, but about digital cameras in general, and photography in paricular. Unfortunately that has exemplified much discussion (or lack of it) since the day this forum began. It was the reason (with the agreement of some others - most of whom no longer seem to participate here anymore) that I invited GordonBGood, who somewhat reluctantly agreed to participate in certain discussions on this forum, in an attempt to generate some interesting discussion - something that was seriously lacking. I was embarrassed at the minimal response his postings drew. Very few people took advantage of his participation because it appears not many were really interested in using the forum as a place to learn something that is not always solely related to their FZ10 camera.

And yes Maureen, that quote about Sony 7X7 cameras was made by me. Nice of you to have gone to the trouble to check. I've owned 2 of them - so I spoke from some personal experience. What's wrong with that? Do I have to keep my mouth shut when there are negatives about a camera - especially those that I have owned and know well?

But have you ever seen me make a negative comment about the FZ10 on any other forum when that camera was mentioned there? NEVER!

Once again, let me make it clear that my FZ10 was returned because it was defective, and that was the ONLY reason it was returned. I did so very reluctantly, upon the advice of a few people on this forum whose opinions I respect, and who felt it was defective, and not because I wanted to get rid of it. I happen to like the camera very much. Enough to have plunked my money down for it long before most of you did.

No, I don't have another one yet because my camera dealer has not received any from Panasonic since that first group came in. In the meantime, I have 2 other cameras, so I have no problems waiting while for another one.

Personally, I am rather insulted that you even think I am trolling. Boy are you people off-base! That couldn't be farther from the truth. If I didn't like the FZ10 enough to own one I would have just returned it in plenty of time to get my money back. But I didn't. Instead I kept the camera until it was already too late to get a refund, and I now have almost $1,150. tied up in a credit note.

It seems to be a sport to attack anyone whose position you disagree with. Look at your messages to Max on his recent thread. Some of them were plain insulting to him. All because he raised some questions that some of you did not agree with. Many people just made fun of him.

The fact that you disagree with me is not an issue for me. It's your perfect right to disagree. I am convinced there is definitely something wrong with the camera though, and that problem won't disappear just because you've all chosen to close your eyes to it and don't want to discuss it openly on the forum.

But, since you are so convinced that I am a troll, and because my postings are obviously annoying many of you, I have decided that from now on I will oblige by spending my time over on the Minolta and Pentax forums instead. At least on those forums, one can give their opinions freely without being pounced upon as though they are some sort of pariah, and where one can find lots of interesting things to learn about and discuss. And that's what I want to do - LEARN from people who really know - not argue!

When I do replace my FZ10 with another one, you'll never know about it anyway, because I won't be around here to tell you about it. If this is the kind of support that any FZ10 owner can expect from this forum then who needs it?

For those of you who have been friendly and open-minded toward me, you have my sincere thanks. I hope you enjoy your FZ10's as I have enjoyed mine, and hope to do again soon.
Barry

Mareda said:

jimagine said:

Mareda said:

Jimagine, are you saying Barry doesn't even OWN a Panasonic - that
he returned his FZ10? I must have missed that, but if that's the
case, this is just trolling. Between novices posting "tips",
pictures being posted that were taken by non-Panasonic camera's
simply for the sake of posting them, and all of this whining, I
feel as though two terrorists have hijacked the Panasonic forum.
And I'm not kidding!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jimagine, according to this post, Barry no longer owns the FZ10 -he
returned it:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=7173823

Interesting that he continues to troll the Panasonic board.

Maureen

Click to expand...

Barry Kernerman said:

Apparently none of you found anything of interest in Tim's
explanations, but I personally learned a lot about a subject that I
am very curious about.
If you want to walk around with blinders on - that's fine with me.
Many of you seem to take everything as though one were criticising
your own children. For my $1,150.CDN investment I have the right
to expect a camera that works as it should - in every important
respect. That doesn't mean I expect a perfect camera - I haven't
had one of those yet.
I think this is indicative of the low level of interest in using
this forum as a learning tool, not just about Panasonic cameras,
but about digital cameras in general, and photography in paricular.
Unfortunately that has exemplified much discussion (or lack of it)
since the day this forum began. It was the reason (with the
agreement of some others - most of whom no longer seem to
participate here anymore) that I invited GordonBGood, who somewhat
reluctantly agreed to participate in certain discussions on this
forum, in an attempt to generate some interesting discussion -
something that was seriously lacking. I was embarrassed at the
minimal response his postings drew. Very few people took advantage
of his participation because it appears not many were really
interested in using the forum as a place to learn something that is
not always solely related to their FZ10 camera.
And yes Maureen, that quote about Sony 7X7 cameras was made by me.
Nice of you to have gone to the trouble to check. I've owned 2 of
them - so I spoke from some personal experience. What's wrong with
that? Do I have to keep my mouth shut when there are negatives
about a camera - especially those that I have owned and know well?
But have you ever seen me make a negative comment about the FZ10 on
any other forum when that camera was mentioned there? NEVER!
Once again, let me make it clear that my FZ10 was returned because
it was defective, and that was the ONLY reason it was returned. I
did so very reluctantly, upon the advice of a few people on this
forum whose opinions I respect, and who felt it was defective, and
not because I wanted to get rid of it. I happen to like the camera
very much. Enough to have plunked my money down for it long before
most of you did.
No, I don't have another one yet because my camera dealer has not
received any from Panasonic since that first group came in. In the
meantime, I have 2 other cameras, so I have no problems waiting
while for another one.

Click to expand...

Barry Kernerman said:

Personally, I am rather insulted that you even think I am trolling.

Click to expand...

Geez, I never get any credit! I thought he was too.

Barry Kernerman said:

Boy are you people off-base! That couldn't be farther from the
truth. If I didn't like the FZ10 enough to own one I would have
just returned it in plenty of time to get my money back. But I
didn't. Instead I kept the camera until it was already too late to
get a refund, and I now have almost $1,150. tied up in a credit
note.
It seems to be a sport to attack anyone whose position you disagree
with. Look at your messages to Max on his recent thread. Some of
them were plain insulting to him. All because he raised some
questions that some of you did not agree with. Many people just
made fun of him.
The fact that you disagree with me is not an issue for me. It's
your perfect right to disagree. I am convinced there is
definitely something wrong with the camera though, and that problem
won't disappear just because you've all chosen to close your eyes
to it and don't want to discuss it openly on the forum.
But, since you are so convinced that I am a troll, and because my
postings are obviously annoying many of you, I have decided that
from now on I will oblige by spending my time over on the Minolta
and Pentax forums instead. At least on those forums, one can give
their opinions freely without being pounced upon as though they are
some sort of pariah, and where one can find lots of interesting
things to learn about and discuss. And that's what I want to do -
LEARN from people who really know - not argue!
When I do replace my FZ10 with another one, you'll never know about
it anyway, because I won't be around here to tell you about it. If
this is the kind of support that any FZ10 owner can expect from
this forum then who needs it?
For those of you who have been friendly and open-minded toward me,
you have my sincere thanks. I hope you enjoy your FZ10's as I have
enjoyed mine, and hope to do again soon.
Barry

Mareda said:

jimagine said:

Mareda said:

Jimagine, are you saying Barry doesn't even OWN a Panasonic - that
he returned his FZ10? I must have missed that, but if that's the
case, this is just trolling. Between novices posting "tips",
pictures being posted that were taken by non-Panasonic camera's
simply for the sake of posting them, and all of this whining, I
feel as though two terrorists have hijacked the Panasonic forum.
And I'm not kidding!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jimagine, according to this post, Barry no longer owns the FZ10 -he
returned it:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=7173823

Interesting that he continues to troll the Panasonic board.

Maureen

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

John_Reed said:

Thanks Bryan! In the post prior to yours, I set forth my real
reason for launching this thread in the first place, but no one
seemed to notice. Basically, it wasn't to launch an A1 comparison
again, God knows we've beaten that subject to death! It was just to
demonstrate that, within the visible light spectrum, i.e., where
there's enough illumination to make a subject interesting enough to
photograph, the Panasonic FZs RULE, since they can shoot handheld
photos at way lower shutter speeds, and thus much lower light
levels, than can, for example, an Oly C-750.

Click to expand...

John, your post was noticed by more than me, I'm sure. Your valid reasons for starting the post were probably understood by most, but unfortunately the post was hijacked, as so many of them have been here.

Maureen

You're right, Maureen. There's a guy who waltzes into town with a chip on his shoulder, always looking for a controversy. He's tainted a lot of threads, even though he isn't a "native" FZ user. Oh well, it takes all kinds of people. Thanks for your comments.

Mareda said:

John_Reed said:

Thanks Bryan! In the post prior to yours, I set forth my real
reason for launching this thread in the first place, but no one
seemed to notice. Basically, it wasn't to launch an A1 comparison
again, God knows we've beaten that subject to death! It was just to
demonstrate that, within the visible light spectrum, i.e., where
there's enough illumination to make a subject interesting enough to
photograph, the Panasonic FZs RULE, since they can shoot handheld
photos at way lower shutter speeds, and thus much lower light
levels, than can, for example, an Oly C-750.

Click to expand...

John, your post was noticed by more than me, I'm sure. Your valid
reasons for starting the post were probably understood by most, but
unfortunately the post was hijacked, as so many of them have been
here.

Maureen

Click to expand...

--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

John,

your images and reasoning have been spot on and the annoyance and irritations caused suggests there is an olyboy reincarnate about.

jasm

A few observations:

1/ John your photos are brilliant... it inspires me to spend more time with my FZ10. Your demonstration of low light capabilites coincides with what I would typically use in low light. So I am happy (just need to learn to shoot this well!)

2/ Barry you posts are informative and well written - I am sorry you choose no longer to frequent this forum. Perhaps when your camera is replaced you will get the oppurtunity to write about the more positive aspects of this camera. I believe the low light point is made, in fact overly so IMHO. I think should you wish to complain further, Panasonic would be a good place. (Imagine if the low light capability was what you expected.... what would you do with your 550 and A1 ;-)!)

3/ Tim thanks for the information on the firmware upgrades. Even though this is for Minolta, I found it intresting.

I think this has actually proved a valuable thread.... it does however require a good hour or so to read, I now know that I need not bee too concerned about the low light problem, as I dont really find (or read) that it affect my typical situations.

Thanks again.....

Mark

John_Reed said:

It bums me to keep seeing all the posts about how these cameras
just can't hack it indoors, "good for outside, but..." I've had
lots of fun with my FZ1 (now an FZ2 convert) in available light,
indoors, in lots of different situations. Just to exemplify this
experience, I assembled the 11 shots I've posted so far in my
Usefilm portfolio, in the order they were taken and posted. The
last two were taken by my FZ2, the others before conversion.
Shooting conditions are listed with each photo in the portfolio, if
you're interested in looking. I think there are plenty of low-light
but useable situations indoors - if you look at the "Santa" shot,
he was snapped at 1/5 of a second; is that low enough light? Here's
the list of URLs:

http://www.usefilm.com/image/153774.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/158606.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/182224.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/188356.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/203746.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/228932.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/234595.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/252113.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/256471.html
http://www.usefilm.com/image/273003.html - "Santa" shot
http://www.usefilm.com/image/276078.html - panning shot inside a
carousel

I can't believe that people with FZ10s couldn't do equally well or
better than these shots, considering the greater range of control
flexibility they have!
--
John Reed

Nikon CoolPix 4500 Panasonic DMC-FZ1 (w/FZ2 upgrade)

Click to expand...

--
Panasonic FZ10
Olympus 2020Z