Minolta DSLR "Big Surprise" !!

Minolta had already filed a patent to incorporate a second contact bank to their Maxxum line of lenses. This will enable those lenses to be mounted on both a phase detection AF system and a contrast detection system. There will for sure be a new line of range finder type of digital body coming out after some DSLRs. I think we will start to see some new lenses with this mount this spring.
A digital rangefinder with interchangeable lenses and some
intelligent incorporation of EVF or LCD preview (like a large
screen, flip/swivel LCD design that Canon uses with the G-series)
would be pretty slick. Of course, you'd have to use a new,
unproven line of lenses, but with no mirror in the way, those
lenses would be significantly reduced in size.

That said, all I really care about is in-camera AS. If that's not
there, I'm staying with Canon!

--
JCDoss
 
Not at all. It was collaborative with Fujifilm and sold under Nikon's name (and I think Fuji sold it under a different name). May have been the first DSLR and was a whopping 1.2 Mp. Not a very good camera but it was an early entry.

Sam
Sam
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
--
Sam Anderson
--
Mark K
http://www.pbase.com/mark_k
--
Sam Anderson
 
To introduce a DSLR with EVF, Minolta would have to use CMOS-type sensor, not CCD. Besides, if the camera uses EVF it is not a (D)SLR anymore, Minolta calls such cameras "SLR type".

I hope, Minolta will introduce a TRUE DSLR (optical viewfinder), not a SLR-type. If they won't, i will probably switch to Nikon/Fuji, maybe even Oly.

Why not EVF?
  • low image quality compared to optical viewfinder (low resolution, unreliable colour reproduction - needs to be calibrated)
  • consumes power
With optical viewfinder you see what the sensor sees, with EVF you see what the LCD shows you.

The benefits EVF offers (tiltable, on-picture info... anything else?) are great for low-end cameras.
Maybe an interchangeable lens camera wich accepts Maxxum lenses but
with a high resolution ( 500K pixels ? ) EVF, APS size CCD and AS !!

Lucas
Something like that.
I mean, how many of you out there using the A1 would like to get
a SLR viewfinder instead of a tiltable EVF and a tiltable LCD display?

--
Cheers
Erland
 
To introduce a DSLR with EVF, Minolta would have to use CMOS-type
sensor, not CCD.
Consumer cameras use CCD sensors, all the way up to 828, and all have LCD/EVF.
Besides, if the camera uses EVF it is not a (D)SLR
anymore, Minolta calls such cameras "SLR type".
Americans (at least Minolta) also call true SLR cameras "SLR type." Look at the Maxxum 5, being advertised on KM Camera home page in USA: "Maxxum 5: an SLR-type camera."
I hope, Minolta will introduce a TRUE DSLR (optical viewfinder),
not a SLR-type.
They will. There's no point in making an SLR-like. This segment is very neatly covered by 7/A series.
[snip]

Why not EVF?
  • low image quality compared to optical viewfinder (low resolution,
unreliable colour reproduction - needs to be calibrated)
True, and true.
  • consumes power
True.
With optical viewfinder you see what the sensor sees, with EVF you
see what the LCD shows you.
Not true. With optical viewfinder, you see the image that is projected on the matte screen. In the case of Minolta, this is a true matte image, not a mix of matte and ariel to give a bright image (this is achieved in a different way), but true matte image. But Minolta uses a 'microraster' acute spherical matte, which blows out bokeh, which you can't really see until you have the final picture.

An EVF shows the image as the sensor sees it, but it is resized, and shown on a (usually) poor quality LCD.
The benefits EVF offers (tiltable, on-picture info... anything
else?)
Yes - black and white preview, IR preview, image highlight, possibility to see blown-out areas, histogram, precise exposure information.
are great for low-end cameras.
And high end, like Minolta A1. Mind you, I wouldn't like a hybrid, but I can see advantages where there are ones.
 
The benefits EVF offers (tiltable, on-picture info... anything
else?)
Yes - black and white preview, IR preview, image highlight,
possibility to see blown-out areas, histogram, precise exposure
information.
are great for low-end cameras.
And high end, like Minolta A1. Mind you, I wouldn't like a hybrid,
but I can see advantages where there are ones.
--

I can also cite another advantage of the EVF system which is not mentioned often enough.

The EVF veiw is 100% accurate for framing. MUCH more accurate than most SLR cameras, or dSLR cameras.

[Only top end SLRs (Nikon F5, maybe the best Canons, and Hasselblad) were really accurate.]

Otherwise they all have "safety factors" built in to the veiwfinders, which is a euphamistic way of saying "not very accurate" -- yielding more in the image than appears in the veiwfinder.

With digital that excess area is WASTED pixels. Given the price of those pixels, I would rather not have to crop any off, thanks very much! The EVF means I don't have to.

Regards,
Baz
 
The benefits EVF offers (tiltable, on-picture info... anything
else?)
Yes - black and white preview, IR preview, image highlight,
possibility to see blown-out areas, histogram, precise exposure
information.
are great for low-end cameras.
And high end, like Minolta A1. Mind you, I wouldn't like a hybrid,
but I can see advantages where there are ones.
--
I can also cite another advantage of the EVF system which is not
mentioned often enough.

The EVF veiw is 100% accurate for framing. MUCH more accurate than
most SLR cameras, or dSLR cameras.

[Only top end SLRs (Nikon F5, maybe the best Canons, and
Hasselblad) were really accurate.]
All Minoltas as well. In the latest line, I'm sure that EVERY body has accurate (not 100% FOV, though) framing. Dynax 9 has 100% accuracy, complete FOV coverage and absolutely no parallax errors.
Otherwise they all have "safety factors" built in to the
veiwfinders, which is a euphamistic way of saying "not very
accurate" -- yielding more in the image than appears in the
veiwfinder.

With digital that excess area is WASTED pixels. Given the price of
those pixels, I would rather not have to crop any off, thanks very
much! The EVF means I don't have to.
What wasted pixels??? What are you talking about? You can always frame more tightly if you want to use them. Anyway, a picture does not look pleasing if your subject seems like it wants to jump out of the picture instead of staying on it.

As for advantages of optical viewfinders vs. disadvantages - there are more of the former than of the latter, and it's clear what dSLRs should have. In the future, though - perhaps? But I'm sure it would require a very fast refresh rate of the EVF, at least one-quarter sensor resolution (for precise focusing without having to magnify the image), and some clever way for passive AF to work without a mirror. I listed oxymorons.
Regards,
Baz
--

'Nuclear powered vacuum cleaners will probably be ready within 10 years,' Alex Lewyt, of the Lewyt Corporation, a vacuum maker, predicted in The New York Times on June 10, 1955.
--- A warning to all technophiles
 
I think we mostly overstate the effect of AS. It will give you one or two stops more, but the low noise of the large sensores actually gives you much more. Just shoot at ISO800. On my Z1 (also an SLR according to Minolta) I have to use ISO50 or ISO100 if I do not want noise in my pictures. I can shoot good pictures at 10x zoom with ISO400, but noise start to become irritating.
A digital rangefinder with interchangeable lenses and some
intelligent incorporation of EVF or LCD preview (like a large
screen, flip/swivel LCD design that Canon uses with the G-series)
would be pretty slick. Of course, you'd have to use a new,
unproven line of lenses, but with no mirror in the way, those
lenses would be significantly reduced in size.

That said, all I really care about is in-camera AS. If that's not
there, I'm staying with Canon!

--
JCDoss
 
[Only top end SLRs (Nikon F5, maybe the best Canons, and
Hasselblad) were really accurate.]
All Minoltas as well. In the latest line, I'm sure that EVERY body
has accurate (not 100% FOV, though) framing. Dynax 9 has 100%
accuracy, complete FOV coverage and absolutely no parallax errors.
And with the Angle Finder VN, I can view from above, left or right, and when I click over to "2X", I actually see more detail instead of bigger pixels. For critical focusing w/macro & long tele stuff. The concept of having an EVF that can boost brightness for DOF at f/22 is nice, if only the EVF provided enough detail to actually determine what's in focus.
Otherwise they all have "safety factors" built in to the
veiwfinders, which is a euphamistic way of saying "not very
accurate" -- yielding more in the image than appears in the
veiwfinder.
Well, not very complete ... not sure about accurate. Then you've got the old xi lenses that could actually zoom wide to show you more of the image to help with framing (like predicting when a subject would enter the frame) prior to shooting.

Know what would be nice ? A remote EVF. I've taken some nice bluebird photos from 25' away courtesy of a cable release and prefocusing. But it would be awfully nice to sit 25 feet away with that same cable release and an EVF :)
With digital that excess area is WASTED pixels. Given the price of
those pixels, I would rather not have to crop any off, thanks very
much! The EVF means I don't have to.
No big deal - something you get used to very quickly, same as with film. Heck, with half the shots I see posted, those extra pixels are useful for leveling the horizon after the fact ;)
As for advantages of optical viewfinders vs. disadvantages - there
are more of the former than of the latter, and it's clear what
dSLRs should have.
Agreed, at least for now. I can see the advantages of an EVF for some types of shooting, but for my primary SLR use (nature photography), where I typically shoot from a tripod in manual focus mode, I wouldn't use a DSLR that wasn't truly an SLR ... I wouldn't mind an interchangeable lens; larger sensor digicam (i.e. a DSLR but with an EVF) if it were $1000 or less, just for "casual" shooting (candids and the like).
  • Dennis
 
How about a large detached LCD screen with the camera transferring the images to the screen (dreaming ??)

Or a true optical screen on the body

Or ability to wireless email your images immediatelly from camera...
or ....
 
I understand all the pros and cons today, but I really think that EVF's may replace OVF's on DSLR's sometime in the future, maybe within 4-5 years, when they may get to around 1.5 MP resolution and much higher refresh rates.

Lucas
 
With digital that excess area is WASTED pixels. Given the price of
those pixels, I would rather not have to crop any off, thanks very
much! The EVF means I don't have to.
No big deal - something you get used to very quickly, same as with
film. Heck, with half the shots I see posted, those extra pixels
are useful for leveling the horizon after the fact ;)
I don't WANT to "get used to" an innacurate veiwfinder. Basically I am already used to Nikon F and Hasselblad which are accurate, as are the Sheet Film cameras I still use occasionally. Finding 'stuff' in the frame that I thought I was specifically keeping OUT really upsets me!!
As for advantages of optical viewfinders vs. disadvantages - there
are more of the former than of the latter, and it's clear what
dSLRs should have.
The quality of the viewfinder image -- and how good or bad the current EVFs are -- is very much a matter of what you are used to.

I can honestly say that the EVF on the D7 is VERY much easier to view, AND to focus, than my 5x4" screen, especially when that 5x4" is equiped with a 65mm f/8 W/A lens. The 5x4 image is upside down, it is very dim indeed, particularly in the corners, it can't be seen at all without a black cloth over your head, ----- AND it doesn't exactly "snap" into focus either!

EVF? Huh! I'd blooming KILL for an EVF!!

Single lens reflex cameras with high grade optical viewfinding systems are NOT the only kind of cameras there have ever been. Neither are they the only kind still in use. For this reason the whole EVF versus optical issue lacks the wider perspective which would make the arguments more objective.

In my opinion EVFs are currently quite good enough to use, and getting better all the time. Please, stop moaning about them.

Regards,
Baz
 
Based on the form factor of 7 series, A1 and Z1, I think that the new DSLR will share the form factor. Finally - you'll be rid of having your nose obstruct your composing.

Simply put - although the new dSLR will be built upon Minolta's experience in making SLR cameras, as well as especially their experience in good ergonomics, it will not be directly based on any current body, at least as a whole. Lens barrel (mount+mirror+pentaprism+shutter+its entire casing) may very well be based on the 7, but few things besides that.
This will make it the second dSLR to have that look after E-1.

Controls layout. Digital controls will be based on A1 - with extra dial for ISO/WB/Quality, and camera controls based on the 7. I think we can all be sure of that. Perhaps they will also include my idea about the trackball+scrollwheel combo (in addition to standard arrow keys) for easy menu operation and effortless magnification/scrolling around in the instant review mode.
Further features include:

1. 1/12000th (and what was that - 1/300th? X-sync) shutter - same as in Dynax 7, but having 33% less way to travel, the camera controls will take that into account and allow faster top shutter speed.

2. New AF system with two more star sensors, and all the other - cross sensors, maybe not full "+," but "T," or "L" shaped.

What will that 'big surprise' be?

Here are the possibilities - I won't name the feature - it will be a surprise to me as well...
1. AS - contrary to what Joe thinks, I believe it is possible.
2. Included wide converter accessory.

3. Movie mode with passive AF with dual mirror mode (as described in another patent) for either having a movie record with passive AF+manual, or recording a movie with contrast-based AF+manual, but having a working optical viewfinder.

What else is possible???

--

'Nuclear powered vacuum cleaners will probably be ready within 10 years,' Alex Lewyt, of the Lewyt Corporation, a vacuum maker, predicted in The New York Times on June 10, 1955.
--- A warning to all technophiles
 
Even 2 stops is very important. Yes, low noise iso800 is important as well but high iso could also be used together with AS. Imagine what you could picture with AS engaged iso800 and a f1.4/1.7 lens.
Biu
Hey Steven,

one or two stops is a very pessimistic appraisal. I´ve taken sharp
shots with 200mm and a exposure time of 1/10sec. Normaly I can´t
hold 1/125...
Have you ever tried without AS? I think no-mirror-slap is an
equally important feature.

Marko
 
Even 2 stops is very important. Yes, low noise iso800 is important
as well but high iso could also be used together with AS. Imagine
what you could picture with AS engaged iso800 and a f1.4/1.7 lens.
Biu
I am just imaging the possibilities:

1. Shooting w/ 100/2.8 Macro (D) with IS, especially with a digital 7 and crop factor of 1.6x.
2. Any subject with the 300/4 G.
3. Ditto with Sigma 70-200/2.8 and two TCs.
4. Outdoor and indoor architecture photography w/ 20/2.8.
5. Etc. Etc. when the use of tripod is impractical and prohibited.

Cheers,

J
Hey Steven,

one or two stops is a very pessimistic appraisal. I´ve taken sharp
shots with 200mm and a exposure time of 1/10sec. Normaly I can´t
hold 1/125...
Have you ever tried without AS? I think no-mirror-slap is an
equally important feature.

Marko
--
Come and visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56

 
The quality of the viewfinder image -- and how good or bad the
current EVFs are -- is very much a matter of what you are used to.

I can honestly say that the EVF on the D7 is VERY much easier to
view, AND to focus, than my 5x4" screen, especially when that 5x4"
is equiped with a 65mm f/8 W/A lens. The 5x4 image is upside down,
it is very dim indeed, particularly in the corners, it can't be
seen at all without a black cloth over your head, ----- AND it
doesn't exactly "snap" into focus either!
Could be your focusing screen. I just replaced the 40+ year old screen on my Rolleiflex TLR with a new screen from Bill Maxwell and the results are amazing !!!
EVF? Huh! I'd blooming KILL for an EVF!!

Single lens reflex cameras with high grade optical viewfinding
systems are NOT the only kind of cameras there have ever been.
Maybe not, but we're talking about DSLRs, not digital 4x5s, and current Minolta SLRs have some of the best optical viewfinders on the market. On photo.net, Mike Johnston raves about the viewfinder in the Maxxum 7. EVFs may be better than some systems, but they can't compete with recent film SLRs that we're talking about replacing with digital SLRs.
Neither are they the only kind still in use. For this reason the
whole EVF versus optical issue lacks the wider perspective which
would make the arguments more objective.

In my opinion EVFs are currently quite good enough to use, and
getting better all the time. Please, stop moaning about them.
They're getting slowly better, and IMO, they suck for anything other than point & shoot use where you're relying on AF. Sorry, you can like them all you want ... I see the benefits, too. I enjoy using my digicam for certain things. But I can't even guess as to how long it will take before EVFs are good enough for me to consider using one in place of an SLR for nature & macro photography. I mentioned the Angle Finder VN & how useful it is to magnify the image (rather than magnifying pixels) ... the Minolta Angle Finder VN is an attractive enough accessory that while Kirk Enterprises doesn't make Arca-Swiss adapters for many Minolta cameras & lenses ("nobody uses Minolta") they do make adapters to allow other camera brands to use the Angle Finder VN.

I have no doubt that an interchangeable lens, large sensor camera with an EVF (as opposed to an SLR) would sell. But it wouldn't be good enough for everyone (yet). And there are some people who don't want a DSLR because they don't want to give up their EVF. Different strokes ...

(We all get our 2 cents here, right ?)
  • Dennis
 
Don't forget that AS doesen't just allow you to shot in darker situations - it gives you the ability to shoot handheld with longer exposures. Higher iso setting won't help you much when you want to capture motion-blur effect.

marko
I think we mostly overstate the effect of AS. It will give you one
or two stops more, but the low noise of the large sensores actually
gives you much more. Just shoot at ISO800. On my Z1 (also an SLR
according to Minolta) I have to use ISO50 or ISO100 if I do not
want noise in my pictures. I can shoot good pictures at 10x zoom
with ISO400, but noise start to become irritating.
 
I hope you're right, but I've got a feeling that Minolta will come up with a "under $1000.00" camera to compete with the Rebel 300D and Nikon d70. There's where major DSLR's sales are. A more Pro camera ( Maxxum 7 based, or ... ) may only be available sometime after.

Lucas
 

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