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Minolta DSLR "Big Surprise" !!

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lcmacedo

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Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation, but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this forum on it!!

Lucas
 
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
Is it April 1st yet?

jeff.
 
Jeff Tokayer said:
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hmmm....... Jeff,

Be nice if they do it, but I read on these forums that Kodak have tied up the use of focal reducer technology with strong Patent Law, as far as SLRs were concerned. Perhaps they have done a deal?

By the way, you DO get something for nothing!

Since lens diameter remains the same, whilst focal length reduces, then the f/stop is indeed lowered --- which is very handy indeed. MUCH wider aperture lenses. Slightly over a stop of extra light, they say. [Nice]

Regards,
Baz
 
[text snipped]
Barrie Davis said:
Since lens diameter remains the same, whilst focal length reduces,
then the f/stop is indeed lowered --- which is very handy indeed.
MUCH wider aperture lenses. Slightly over a stop of extra light,
they say. [Nice]
Click to expand...
Really??? Get out of here :-) Yeah, that would be nice.

Anyway, less than six weeks away before the moment of truth----PMA 2004.

Cheers,

José
Barrie Davis said:
Regards,
Baz
Click to expand...
--
Come and visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56

 
It might keep dust from getting onto the sensor, but it will definitely keep mere mortals from removing it!

I highly suspect this is bogus if they are saying you actually gain f/stops by using this thing. Seems like someone's imagination gone wild. Then again, I'm no optical engineer... just a skeptical forum reader.

I hope this is wrong and that the "big surprise" is anti-shake technology on the sensor, which is made by Fuji.
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
--
JCDoss
 
Here's a post from an Open Forum thread that throws cold water on the anti-shake on the sensor speculation:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=7156055

Radu
JCDoss said:
I highly suspect this is bogus if they are saying you actually gain
f/stops by using this thing. Seems like someone's imagination gone
wild. Then again, I'm no optical engineer... just a skeptical
forum reader.

I hope this is wrong and that the "big surprise" is anti-shake
technology on the sensor, which is made by Fuji.
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
--
JCDoss
Click to expand...
 
AS is no big surprise at all. Every Minolta user is expecting it. Minolta is commiting suincide if not putting AS in at least one of the models.

The focal reducer sounds like a plan. Hope it is in the form of a removable adaptor and the additional elements does not affect picture quality.
Biu
JCDoss said:
I highly suspect this is bogus if they are saying you actually gain
f/stops by using this thing. Seems like someone's imagination gone
wild. Then again, I'm no optical engineer... just a skeptical
forum reader.

I hope this is wrong and that the "big surprise" is anti-shake
technology on the sensor, which is made by Fuji.
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
--
JCDoss
Click to expand...
 
Member said:
I'm not sure I buy it... the
elements in Canon's IS lenses that move must be larger and more
massive than a CCD chip.
Click to expand...
Canon's compensating motion is rotational, not horizontal/vertical as Minolta's system. Canon thus needs lesser motor movement and much lesser force (if the element is balanced correctly) to acheive the same amount of compensation. With the current speculation about in-body optics however, it is possible that they plan to compensate shake with that element; they have a couple of patents on in-camera compensation.
 
any other technological feature is gravy. In addition to the above, I will be pleasantly surprised with any of the following:

1. A springtime delivery date after the PMA announcement
2. Anti-dust ala Oly E1

3. Setting options to choose your favourite film look: a). Velvia 100, b), Astia 100, c) E100G/X, d). E100VS, e). Portra 400VC
4. Fuji sensor
5. Price comparable to 10D but with specs closer to 1D or D2H
6. Weather sealibility ala Maxxum/Dynax 9, albeit at a higher price
7. Option to shoot ISO 6400 and infrared
8. Full-frame

9. A 25-30% discount offered by KM to loyal Maxxum/Dynax users for any SSM lenses including the brand-new 24-70/2.8 SSM by showing evidence they own a Minolta camera, two Minolta lenses and a Minolta flash unit

Let the countdown for the 2004 PMA Show begin!

José

--
Come and visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56

 
Magnus W said:
Canon's compensating motion is rotational, not horizontal/vertical
as Minolta's system. Canon thus needs lesser motor movement and
much lesser force (if the element is balanced correctly) to acheive
the same amount of compensation.
Click to expand...
When rereading this I see that it was very bad wording.

Canon sees camera shake as a rotational movement. They use a moving lens element to "bend" (or counter-rotate, seen from the side) the light coming through the lens. For this, they need pretty small movements; even a minute adjustment will have a large effect on the film/sensor. Minolta sees the shake as an up/down motion and uses a counter-moving sensor instead, which works perfectly fine for a small chip but is harder to implement with a larger chip. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages.

Canon also uses (mostly in their camcorders, I believe) another solution with two parallell glass plates with a high-refractive liquid between. By varying the space between the plates at different parts of the edge, correction can be applied by bending the light as of above; this is an interesting system that Minolta have researched (and patented!) extensively. In the Minolta version, stacked shape memory alloy is used to vary the distance between the plates in a fast and precise way. The advantage, as I understand it, of such a system is that it can be easily incorporated inside a camera -- especially one with EVF.
 
José
If there is six week to go, it must be the longest six week time in my life.

Plenty of things to go before Minolta's DSLR coming out including another trip, exam...
Anti dust is a must. I am puzzled and annoyed by those collecting on my S1Pro

AS/IS is also a must. I would rather keep the crop factor to 1.5 or above as sport/wild life photography will my next target.

--
Mark K
http://www.pbase.com/mark_k
 
Barrie Davis said:
Be nice if they do it, but I read on these forums that Kodak have
tied up the use of focal reducer technology with strong Patent Law,
as far as SLRs were concerned. Perhaps they have done a deal?
Click to expand...
Minolta has never used the word (D)SLR, just
digital camera with interchangeable lenses.

Cheers
Erland
 
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
check this tah i posted earlier.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6929800

Doesn't the drawing in this patewnt describe exactly that?
The drawings describe inbody lenses.

--
Cheers
Erland
 
[text snipped]
Mark K said:
Anti dust is a must. I am puzzled and annoyed by those collecting
on my S1Pro
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Mark K said:
AS/IS is also a must. I would rather keep the crop factor to 1.5 or
above as sport/wild life photography will my next target.
Click to expand...
Anything goes for me here between 1.3-1.7x. Of course, I might need another wide-angle lens for the DSLR but most likely will use my Maxxum SLRs for landscape photography.

Yes, six-weeks will feel very long. Getting the actual product will take longer so I wonder how many slide films I have to use when that day finally arrives :-)

Cheers,

José
Mark K said:
--
Mark K
http://www.pbase.com/mark_k
Click to expand...
--
Come and visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56

 
Eleson said:
lcmacedo said:
Steve Perz posted this comment on the News Discussion Forum :

"Minolta will be the first to put a focal reducer in the camera
body. With the focal reducer all lenses will have the same FOV as
on film. Of course you don't get something for nothing, since focal
length has been reduced and lens diameter remains the same the
f/stop is reduced and the camera body is thinner. Since the image
that covered the full 35mm format has been shrunk to fit the
smaller CCD sensor, resolution is increased by the same factor. The
focal reducer needs to be placed behind the lens and in front of
the mirror; it will keep dust from getting to the sensor. Wow, I
can hardly wait."

I don't know where he got that information, maybe just speculation,
but I thought it would be interesting to hear the comments of this
forum on it!!

Lucas
Click to expand...
check this tah i posted earlier.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6929800

Doesn't the drawing in this patewnt describe exactly that?
The drawings describe inbody lenses.

--
Cheers
Erland
Click to expand...
I followed this link when you posted it, Erland, but I didn't manage to see the drawing. How do you get it ? When I click on the "Images" button, there is a page displayed with the title "Publication Number: 06345154 Section: Front Page 1 of 11 pages" but the image doesn't show.

--
Philippe Boite
http://philippe.boite.free.fr
 
Philippe Boite said:
I followed this link when you posted it, Erland, but I didn't
manage to see the drawing. How do you get it ? When I click on the
"Images" button, there is a page displayed with the title
"Publication Number: 06345154 Section: Front Page 1 of 11 pages"
but the image doesn't show.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I just found by myself (yes, simply by using the "Help" page on the patents site) that I needed to install a TIFF viewer plugin. Now I can see it.
--
Philippe Boite
http://philippe.boite.free.fr
 
.
José B said:
Yes, six-weeks will feel very long. Getting the actual product will
take longer so I wonder how many slide films I have to use when
that day finally arrives
Click to expand...
I have to count my stock. Big camera shops here has reduced suppy of long RVP (one large roll can give me about 25 rolls of 36 exposures).

Mark K
http://www.pbase.com/mark_k
 
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