Reading mode: Light Dark

Help needed with gel on flash

Go to last post
J

Juli Valley

Forum Pro
Messages
54,437
Reaction score
30
Location
US
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota which is mottled shades of gray.

I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

 
Your setup is not exactly clear. Are you are using an ST-E2 to trigger the 550EX and 420EX, and a PC-Cord to trigger the Vivitar 285 vs. a slave trigger? Is the 420EX is in E-TTL Mode rather than Manual? Is the Vivitar 285 is in autoflash mlde or Manual?

The Vivitar 285 seems to hardly have an influence in providing fill. But I think your father came out very well.

The background appears to be primary problem - being blown out. I wonder if this is mainly due to the 420EX firing at full power for some reason (e.g. if it is set to TTL mode rather than E-TTL mode).

Since you are shooting in digital (I presume), could you have done several variations in the background lighting if you previewed the effect of your flash on the camera's LCD right after the shot? This would be similar to taking Polaroids test exposures in Medium Format.
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
 
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
--

Hi Juli,

I think your guess is right. Probably a bit too much from the flash lighting the background, and maybe the main light is hitting it too.

Swing the main light forward a tad, and reduce the light from the background flash to 1/4, or maybe even less. And/or try adding another layer of gel???

I think you could also increase your fill. (The left ear is very black on my screen.) Bring it closer to the camera, which will make it more effective on the shadows, and take it slightly closer to your Dad too.

(Goooood looking chap! But I don't like his hands posed like that. Looks like a big bunch of bananas! He has a fine face -- why don't you go in much tighter on it?).

The reflections in his specs could be removed by tilting his chin down a little, and taking the main up slightly. Tilt it down if necessary when repositioned.

Working without the modelling light facility, that studio flash/strobe lights provide, is never easy. Although it helps enormously to have instant feedback from the digital review, there really is no substitute for modelling lights as a means to view, 'build' and 'tune' your lighting -- the spectacles reflection for instance.

That said, you are doing pretty well, really you are!

Regards,
Baz
 
Yes, I used an ST-E2 on the camera to fire the two Canon flashes. I had a Wein digital slave on the Vivitar flash, but as you said it's difficult to see for sure if it fired. That's why I've ordered another 420EX to be controlled by the ST-E2. The flashes were fired in ETTL mode. I had the power of the Vivitar at 1/4 which may have been too low or it may not have fired. I'm not sure.

Yes, I could have tried several things and should have. I hate dragging Dad away from his TV. LOL.
 
for all of the tips. I have taken shots of the backdrop which were much darker. I will print out your suggestions for study later.
I really do appreciate all of your suggestions.
 
why dont you just make some test with a bg first ..
without model to get the basics right ..

the bg looks like a drape and not a mottled studio bg ..
second .. your bg light does not cover the bg ..
too close and not enough power to cover the lot
bg,main fill ratio is totally off ..

when you want to experiment with gels try it on
a plain wall .. see coverage and even distribution
versus distance of strobe and light modifier ..

with one bg flash you wont get even lighting and with your
canon flashes you waste money and dont get anywhere
a set of studio strobes (low end like Alien bees) look cheaper to me
than what you try to achieve and will give you better results

example...

mid blue bg .. seemless paper .. lit with 2 300WS strobes evenly
bot around 2m away from bg and model about 5m away from bg



now same bg .. YES it is the same
geled with yellow .. both strobes



these are five light setups and space ...

have fun
gmd
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

 
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
Joe Peoples writes:

...like a person who salts his food before tasting it. Dad is a little dark. You should get his lighting right first and then deal with the background. I have no idea what a "brolly" is, but you'd know where the "lightness" came from, if you did an exposure with only the main light. The background should enhance and compliment the subject. You need to adjust the output and shape of the light to realize your vision. Lighting should to be done systematically, in retraceable steps, or you'll never be able to replicate your setup. Start as most pros do, when first learning the ropes, with a diagram book, sketching light positions and meter readings. Making mistakes is useless and frustrating, unless you can learn from them.
 
I did try to shoot the background with the empty chair first. The background is a 10 X 12 foot background which I didn't stretch out. My main problem is working in a tiny space in my living room. I wish I had a larger area like a garage, but I only have a carport.
Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Anglophile that I am, I've picked up using brolly for umbrella. LOL. I suspect the fill light did not fire. I had it set at 1/4 power, but I'll try moving it closer. When my second 420EX comes, I'll be more sure that the lights are all firing. I had a Wein digital slave plugged into the Vivitar fill light, but I suspect it didn't fire or I need to kick up the power.
 
Juli Valley said:
Anglophile that I am, I've picked up using brolly for umbrella.
LOL. I suspect the fill light did not fire. I had it set at 1/4
power, but I'll try moving it closer. When my second 420EX comes,
I'll be more sure that the lights are all firing. I had a Wein
digital slave plugged into the Vivitar fill light, but I suspect it
didn't fire or I need to kick up the power.
Click to expand...
 
LOL. I have a lot of time since I'm a retired widow. I taught school for 38 years, but I've always played with cameras since I was 13.

This digital madness started about five years ago with producing a church newsletter. I was a yearbook and newspaper sponsor at various times. Here's a page of photos from a trip to the inner-city playing Santa yesterday. These were made with on-camera flash only.

 
gmd/wing88,

just a clarification about the photo you posted - you say the background lights are 2m (6ft) away from background and the model is 5m (15ft) from background? Is this correct?

just wanted to clarify - that is a nice size studio if your model is 15ft off your background - you must be another 4-8ft from the model - that makes the room you are shooting in something like 25ish feet. Nice to have that kind of space :-)
wing88 said:
the bg looks like a drape and not a mottled studio bg ..
second .. your bg light does not cover the bg ..
too close and not enough power to cover the lot
bg,main fill ratio is totally off ..

when you want to experiment with gels try it on
a plain wall .. see coverage and even distribution
versus distance of strobe and light modifier ..

with one bg flash you wont get even lighting and with your
canon flashes you waste money and dont get anywhere
a set of studio strobes (low end like Alien bees) look cheaper to me
than what you try to achieve and will give you better results

example...

mid blue bg .. seemless paper .. lit with 2 300WS strobes evenly
bot around 2m away from bg and model about 5m away from bg



now same bg .. YES it is the same
geled with yellow .. both strobes



these are five light setups and space ...

have fun
gmd
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

Click to expand...
 
the lens was a 80-200 AF ED ..
and yes it's nice to have that space ...
bg lights a flagged with black panels
that they don't spill on subject ...

thats my studio



and thats a second larger room which I do
not use regularly as a studio .. it's also on
our property ..



yep .. love it .. second one is not airconditioned
first one is ..

have fun
gmd
Shanda Bhasker said:
just a clarification about the photo you posted - you say the
background lights are 2m (6ft) away from background and the model
is 5m (15ft) from background? Is this correct?

just wanted to clarify - that is a nice size studio if your model
is 15ft off your background - you must be another 4-8ft from the
model - that makes the room you are shooting in something like
25ish feet. Nice to have that kind of space :-)
wing88 said:
the bg looks like a drape and not a mottled studio bg ..
second .. your bg light does not cover the bg ..
too close and not enough power to cover the lot
bg,main fill ratio is totally off ..

when you want to experiment with gels try it on
a plain wall .. see coverage and even distribution
versus distance of strobe and light modifier ..

with one bg flash you wont get even lighting and with your
canon flashes you waste money and dont get anywhere
a set of studio strobes (low end like Alien bees) look cheaper to me
than what you try to achieve and will give you better results

example...

mid blue bg .. seemless paper .. lit with 2 300WS strobes evenly
bot around 2m away from bg and model about 5m away from bg



now same bg .. YES it is the same
geled with yellow .. both strobes



these are five light setups and space ...

have fun
gmd
Juli Valley said:
I took this impromptu shot this afternoon. With my 88 year old dad
you don't make him go change clothes to do test photos. Excuse the
fleece jacket and colors. The background is a Lastolite Dakota
which is mottled shades of gray.
I wish the backlight was a little less blownout or bright. I used
a 550EX flash into a silver brolly as key off left not far from
Dad, a Vivitar 285 on 1/4 power into a white brolly off to the
right for fill about as far away as the camera and the background
light was a 420EX covered with a pretty dark Rosco blue gel fired
at 1/2 power just below his shoulders and about 4 feet from the
background. I don't know if the lightness is due to the
positioning of the backlight or spill over from the brollies. Any
suggestions would be appreciated. I have another 420EX on the way
that should be easier to control. I could shoot through a white
brolly as a substitute for a softbox. A softbox will have to come a
little later, but I've decided that gels will keep me from spending
a lot on backgrounds. This is purely hobby shooting; I have no
intention of opening a portrait shop.
--

Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

 
than with studio shots ... lol .. sorry no offense intended ..
stick with what you are good at ...
nice page ... well done ..

have fun
gmd

PS: I know .. it's the challenge .. wanna learn ...
Juli Valley said:
LOL. I have a lot of time since I'm a retired widow. I taught
school for 38 years, but I've always played with cameras since I
was 13.
This digital madness started about five years ago with producing a
church newsletter. I was a yearbook and newspaper sponsor at
various times. Here's a page of photos from a trip to the
inner-city playing Santa yesterday. These were made with on-camera
flash only.

Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

 
Just out of curiosity, did you do your website yourself?
wing88 said:
have fun
gmd

PS: I know .. it's the challenge .. wanna learn ...
Juli Valley said:
LOL. I have a lot of time since I'm a retired widow. I taught
school for 38 years, but I've always played with cameras since I
was 13.
This digital madness started about five years ago with producing a
church newsletter. I was a yearbook and newspaper sponsor at
various times. Here's a page of photos from a trip to the
inner-city playing Santa yesterday. These were made with on-camera
flash only.

Click to expand...
--
More time would make me even happier.

Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
 
I'd say the background was about four feet behind the subject. The problem is that I'm shooting between two large chairs to either side that can't be moved very easily out of the way. It's like shooting down a bowling alley. LOL.
 
I"m certainly more of a journalist than a creative photographer. I'm just having fun experimenting.
 
Juli Valley said:
Juli Valley wrote:

I"m certainly more of a journalist than a creative photographer.
I'm just having fun experimenting.
Click to expand...
Hi Juli,

I think down the road you will think you will out grow the canon strobes. To really take things where you look like you will go. A Sunpak 120j Q flash, lumedyne or norman portables. Will give you a variety of round reflectors/studio accessories and manual control. I'm reading your posts on a few forums here, good threads and posts on all.

John
 
Thanks for the comments. I'm having fun. I really don't intend to get heavily into studio setups. If I had more space, it might be more tempting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top