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1st portrait attempt need some help

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Jack Crevalle

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My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30 and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
 
I only have about 30 seconds so I'll give you the most obvious advice. If you want to eliminate shadows, don't shoot in direct sunlight. Shoot in early morning, late afternoon, or under shade. Direct sunlight causes the subjects to squint and creates too much contrast. The lens is good enough for a full body shot but certainly would not be my first choice as a portrait lens. Try a 50mm or 100mm for head and shoulder shots.
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
--
http://www.PatYuen.com
 
grablife said:
I only have about 30 seconds so I'll give you the most obvious
advice. If you want to eliminate shadows, don't shoot in direct
sunlight. Shoot in early morning, late afternoon, or under shade.
Direct sunlight causes the subjects to squint and creates too much
contrast. The lens is good enough for a full body shot but
certainly would not be my first choice as a portrait lens. Try a
50mm or 100mm for head and shoulder shots.

Thanks for the quick response. I agree with that the timing sucked. Unfortunately they were leaving at noon for a weekend away so I couldn't work around that . It was actually a full body shot but I cropped it to their liking. I am thinking about getting the 50/1.8 for the next time I try this
Click to expand...
Gary
 
I tied to remove the shadows using PSCS's Shadows & Highlights... no luck. However, the image looked a bit washed out and cold ( lol, no wonder consdering the time of year ).
What do you think about this?



This is with the PS adjustment ( Shadows and Highlights )
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

 
Melanie Kipp said:
I tied to remove the shadows using PSCS's Shadows & Highlights...
no luck. However, the image looked a bit washed out and cold (
lol, no wonder consdering the time of year ).
What do you think about this?



This is with the PS adjustment ( Shadows and Highlights )

Melanie,
Click to expand...
I like the colors in yours better. Rebecca is fairly fair skinned but this looks richer. I am trying to figure out how I could of reduced some of the shadows, given the conditions, using the flash. I am now wondering if the 520 wasnt strong enough to overcome the harsh sunlight. I disabled the autoreduction of the fill flash but not sure if it made that much of a difference. Thanks again and happy holidays.

Gary
 
Rules are made to be broken so don't worry too much about pro results. The image you depicted here is fine for informal work.

If you really want to get pro results, particularly outdoors, then you're gonna need to spend some bucks. Pros use large diffusion screens to diffuse the light into a softer form. This means having someone else to hold this diffusion screen as they won't stay put on there own in the windy conditions. You can weigh em down with weights or stake em down.

Best solution is to find a better time of day or a better spot. A small collapsible reflector makes for better fill lighting than a flash in my opinion. Flash, unless held off to the side will completely fill all of the subject(s) face(s) thereby reducing any dimension to the subject(s) face.

Technically, according to the rules, less depth of field would be more appropriate. I don't really see that as a problem here though. The grass looks good so damn the depth of field rule.

You picked a hard portrait area to work on. Portraiture is fairly easy in a studio environment. Outside you are at the mercy of the sun and weather. Other things happen too, like other subjects running into your frame. Clouds'll pass over when least expected. This is why the pros pack screens, scrims, reflectors and lots of stands and/or help to handle these items.
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
 
Rob Patterson said:
Rules are made to be broken so don't worry too much about pro
results. The image you depicted here is fine for informal work.
If you really want to get pro results, particularly outdoors, then
you're gonna need to spend some bucks. Pros use large diffusion
screens to diffuse the light into a softer form. This means having
someone else to hold this diffusion screen as they won't stay put
on there own in the windy conditions. You can weigh em down with
weights or stake em down.
Best solution is to find a better time of day or a better spot. A
small collapsible reflector makes for better fill lighting than a
flash in my opinion. Flash, unless held off to the side will
completely fill all of the subject(s) face(s) thereby reducing any
dimension to the subject(s) face.
Technically, according to the rules, less depth of field would be
more appropriate. I don't really see that as a problem here though.
The grass looks good so damn the depth of field rule.
You picked a hard portrait area to work on. Portraiture is fairly
easy in a studio environment. Outside you are at the mercy of the
sun and weather. Other things happen too, like other subjects
running into your frame. Clouds'll pass over when least expected.
This is why the pros pack screens, scrims, reflectors and lots of
stands and/or help to handle these items.
Click to expand...
Rob,

Thanks for the advice and I can see where the equiptment you listed would be necessary to get the most out of this type of shot. I had never tried this before and I have to admit it was fun. I think I am going to try it again but pick the time of day and weather more to my liking. I may even see about a small reflector to give some softer light. I agree with you on the DOF for the grass. I think next time I may try to do it at sunset since I live on the west coast of Florida. Thanks again

Gary
 
I hope you don't mind that I had a go at it.

This is how I would have processed it. As always, none of the renditions of this image are wrong or right. It's just a matter of personal preference. I just prefer less bright, more color and contrast.

Yours -



Mine -



I will take your pic off of my server within a week. Unless you prefer that I take it down immediately.

Thanks for sharing your story and results.

Jack
 
First of all, your photo is fine for a snapshot. However, it's not professional work. While you may have to get some equipment to do "pro" shots, I've sold quite a few photos, and I don't even have a flash.

On a day with harsh sunlight like this, look for something like a porch. I have a side porch on my house that almost always has terrific light whether it's raining or shining. It's my backup spot. Here's a shot I took on a sunny day. 10D with 50 1.4. No flash, no reflectors.



A bigger problem to me is the pose and their expressions. They're not comfortable. Usually, except with good pro models, if the subject isn't comfortable, they won't look good.

You've got a good start. I'd strongly suggest, though, finding places close to your home that you can use as "environmental studios." Also, think about the personality of the person you're photographing. What do they like? What type of image would capture their personality?

BTW, I hate most studio portraits. They take people who have personality and make them look anonymous.
--
http://homepage.mac.com/stephenacook
 
That's not my porch. This is a photo I took at a friend's house with his grandson. He's 83, the grandson is under 2. I was just using it as an example of dealing with light on a sunny day.
Stephen Cook said:
First of all, your photo is fine for a snapshot. However, it's not
professional work. While you may have to get some equipment to do
"pro" shots, I've sold quite a few photos, and I don't even have a
flash.
On a day with harsh sunlight like this, look for something like a
porch. I have a side porch on my house that almost always has
terrific light whether it's raining or shining. It's my backup
spot. Here's a shot I took on a sunny day. 10D with 50 1.4. No
flash, no reflectors.



A bigger problem to me is the pose and their expressions. They're
not comfortable. Usually, except with good pro models, if the
subject isn't comfortable, they won't look good.
You've got a good start. I'd strongly suggest, though, finding
places close to your home that you can use as "environmental
studios." Also, think about the personality of the person you're
photographing. What do they like? What type of image would
capture their personality?

BTW, I hate most studio portraits. They take people who have
personality and make them look anonymous.
--
http://homepage.mac.com/stephenacook
Click to expand...
--
http://homepage.mac.com/stephenacook
 
Jack,

I do a lot of outdoor portraits and think that if you are going to do a lot more of this type photography you should invest in a set of reflectors. One other poster has already mentioned these but it sounded, from his post, like he was talking about a lot of money.
Actually, a decent set of reflectors will run less than $100.00.

You will need someone to hold them unless you want to spend extra money on stands. Even with stands there are times when you'd want them handheld.

Reflectors are some of the best and cheapest outdoor lighting a person can own and you are correct, you can't always dictate what time of day or where you have to take a photograph.
 
A good start, and I'm sure you are going to have a lot of fun developing this skill! It's getting late, so this will be brief, but some thoughts that came to mind (from a purely technical point of view):

-Need to watch the shadows, especially those on her forehead. Sometimes it is useful to look at the shot upside down, or squint your eyes so that you disassociate the face from the "bright" regions and any "subject mergers". Besides choosing a different location / direction / time of day / weather, look into a reflector (such as a 5-in-1) that can work as a white scrim. Outside, you will get beautiful soft light through the scrim without the hard, short shadow transfer. Also, with the lighting, note that if all areas are in focus, the eye will often be drawn the the brighter region, which might be her arms in this case (which are brighter than her face).

-Your model's comfort: if it is bright, shield them from the sun as otherwise they'll be squinting and you will get a harder expression. Plus, you might lose the "twinkle" in their eyes, which gives life to your models. A scrim/reflector will solve this.

-Watch for subject mergers and points where joints are "cut off". Hands are a good example of something that one should be careful about (as they can sometimes draw too much attention). Sometimes rotating them away from the plane of the camera, or (in the case of your photo) moving them to a different position (eg. move the guys hand) may help to diminish them.

-Your lens might be a bit short for typical, flattering portraiture. A good starting point would be an effect length of 85-135. Otherwise, you have to be careful about positioning of arms (or other parts) closer than the face, as you can get some unflattering exaggeration/distortion.

I know you're going to enjoy this, so keep at it & good luck!
Cal.
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
 
Melanie Kipp said:


This is with the PS adjustment ( Shadows and Highlights )
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=19579
Canon 1oD, Olympus C-3o4oZ.
Juli

 
midmadn said:
I hope you don't mind that I had a go at it.

This is how I would have processed it. As always, none of the
renditions of this image are wrong or right. It's just a matter of
personal preference. I just prefer less bright, more color and
contrast.

Yours -



Mine -



I will take your pic off of my server within a week. Unless you
prefer that I take it down immediately.

Thanks for sharing your story and results.

Jack
Click to expand...
Midmadn,

Thanks, I like the warmer colors too She prefered the more less warm version so you are right when it is strictly personal preference.

Gary
 
Stephen Cook said:
First of all, your photo is fine for a snapshot. However, it's not
professional work. While you may have to get some equipment to do
"pro" shots, I've sold quite a few photos, and I don't even have a
flash.
On a day with harsh sunlight like this, look for something like a
porch. I have a side porch on my house that almost always has
terrific light whether it's raining or shining. It's my backup
spot. Here's a shot I took on a sunny day. 10D with 50 1.4. No
flash, no reflectors.



A bigger problem to me is the pose and their expressions. They're
not comfortable. Usually, except with good pro models, if the
subject isn't comfortable, they won't look good.
You've got a good start. I'd strongly suggest, though, finding
places close to your home that you can use as "environmental
studios." Also, think about the personality of the person you're
photographing. What do they like? What type of image would
capture their personality?

BTW, I hate most studio portraits. They take people who have
personality and make them look anonymous.
--
http://homepage.mac.com/stephenacook
Click to expand...
Stephen,

Thanks. You are right that it is not professional work. I enjoy what I do for a living way too much to even think about putting in the time and effort to make this anything more than a hobby. It is more of a family thing that I enjoy and this was my first attempt. I agree with you in your dislike for studio work and I am thinking about other areas to try this again in. But it will give me a reason to buy another lens. for pictures of the kids the wife will let me buy anything. Happy Holidays

Gary
 
Ed B said:
Jack,
I do a lot of outdoor portraits and think that if you are going to
do a lot more of this type photography you should invest in a set
of reflectors. One other poster has already mentioned these but it
sounded, from his post, like he was talking about a lot of money.
Actually, a decent set of reflectors will run less than $100.00.
You will need someone to hold them unless you want to spend extra
money on stands. Even with stands there are times when you'd want
them handheld.
Reflectors are some of the best and cheapest outdoor lighting a
person can own and you are correct, you can't always dictate what
time of day or where you have to take a photograph.
Click to expand...
Ed,

Thanks for the info on the cost. I was beginning to see major dollar signs to get the equipment that you and others had suggested. Now if I can talk the wife into just holding them while I shoot.

Gary
 
chojan said:
A good start, and I'm sure you are going to have a lot of fun
developing this skill! It's getting late, so this will be brief,
but some thoughts that came to mind (from a purely technical point
of view):

-Need to watch the shadows, especially those on her forehead.
Sometimes it is useful to look at the shot upside down, or squint
your eyes so that you disassociate the face from the "bright"
regions and any "subject mergers". Besides choosing a different
location / direction / time of day / weather, look into a reflector
(such as a 5-in-1) that can work as a white scrim. Outside, you
will get beautiful soft light through the scrim without the hard,
short shadow transfer. Also, with the lighting, note that if all
areas are in focus, the eye will often be drawn the the brighter
region, which might be her arms in this case (which are brighter
than her face).

-Your model's comfort: if it is bright, shield them from the sun as
otherwise they'll be squinting and you will get a harder
expression. Plus, you might lose the "twinkle" in their eyes, which
gives life to your models. A scrim/reflector will solve this.

-Watch for subject mergers and points where joints are "cut off".
Hands are a good example of something that one should be careful
about (as they can sometimes draw too much attention). Sometimes
rotating them away from the plane of the camera, or (in the case of
your photo) moving them to a different position (eg. move the guys
hand) may help to diminish them.

-Your lens might be a bit short for typical, flattering
portraiture. A good starting point would be an effect length of
85-135. Otherwise, you have to be careful about positioning of arms
(or other parts) closer than the face, as you can get some
unflattering exaggeration/distortion.

I know you're going to enjoy this, so keep at it & good luck!
Cal.
Click to expand...
Cal,

You raise lots of good points and it gives me something to think about before I try this again. I am going to look at reflectors and see just what is involved . On the rare occasion that I do this though, I imagine it will be just me and person(s) that I am doing this for. I am trying to figure out a better way of using the flash. Maybe a wooded area next time. I think the biggest problem was the time of day and the harshness of the natural light. Thanks again and happy holidays.

Gary
 
I shoot Little leagues for a living and I prefer to shoot in the direct light, so I am familiar with this type of shooting. Your equipment (or lack there of) is not the problem. You have to shoot in manual mode. Set your flash in manual mode. If the results are still unsatisfactory turn up the power of the flash by about a stop and that should take care of the shadows. If your flash does not variable output in manual then I cant help you.
Jack Crevalle said:
My son calls on Friday and informs me that the so called
professional pictures that he and Rebecca had taken for Christmas
here unusable and wants me to take some that day. The conditions
were horrible with 45 degree temp 20 mph wind and very harsh
sunlight with no clouds. I grabbed the 10D with the Sigma 15-30
and 420 EX flash and off to the beach we go. I have never shot
portraiture before and decided to use the flash as fill. As you
can see the shadows are fairly prominent and I was wondering what
advice you could give me as I know this will not be the last time
for this type of pic. Here is the one they liked the best. It is
cropped and sharpened with CSPro level 2



Thanks in advance.
Gary
Click to expand...
 
rainbow said:
I shoot Little leagues for a living and I prefer to shoot in the
direct light, so I am familiar with this type of shooting. Your
equipment (or lack there of) is not the problem. You have to shoot
in manual mode. Set your flash in manual mode. If the results are
still unsatisfactory turn up the power of the flash by about a stop
and that should take care of the shadows. If your flash does not
variable output in manual then I cant help you.
Rainbow,
Click to expand...
I think you are right. I dont think the 420ex was strong enough to overcome the conditions. Maybe this is the excuse I need to justify getting the 550EX thanks

Gary
 
Hi Jack!!

It looks like the sunlight is shining from camera left. I will assume you had your 420 mounted on-camera.

I would have used a large diffusion panel to camera left to soften the ambient light. with the EV levels I see here, I think that would have been all that is necessary.

Of course you can buy these things in various sizes and thus prices, but you can also make them out of a couple plys of heavy sheet plastic and some metal/wood framing. The only problem with the homeade diffusion panels in a portable setup is size. The commercial offerings come in all type of collapsable styles that work with standard lighting stands that allow you to position them accurately and in a repeatable fashion.

I feel your pain!! I've had similar problems, but the above technique does work!! After a few more lenses, my budget will be set on lighting modifiers and strobes.

I learned of this technique in the lighting forum (great wealth of info there!!).

ED
 
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