So tell me about 828 RAW : )

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software? What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

No noise control that I'm aware of.

It's basic. Like Canon's ZoomBrowser, only without the file management tools.

At the same time, you have a finer degree of control with WB, Levels, Exposure/EV tools, and degrees of Sharpening.

The software is capable, yet a real puzzlement. Clearly it has room for growth and interface adjustment.

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

You would think that the RAW image WILL be totally RAW (meaning without any sharpening or NR). I wonder if someone would be so kind to hack into this and..... Hmmmm.. Do you think the RAW file will be complete RAW data, or will have Sony slipped the NR right into the RAW file before you can get to it? Sharpening I'm sure like you said will be refinable.

Brian

Ulysses said:

It's basic. Like Canon's ZoomBrowser, only without the file
management tools.

At the same time, you have a finer degree of control with WB,
Levels, Exposure/EV tools, and degrees of Sharpening.

The software is capable, yet a real puzzlement. Clearly it has room
for growth and interface adjustment.

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

In order to get a little more shutter speed for my basketball games someone recommend I shoot in raw mode a little underexposed and correct using the software. I imagine this is a pretty easy job. Can I also do this with my photoshop elements? If I use the raw mode and if I want to use neat image would I convert the file after I make my exposure adjustments and then use NI? Probably a dumb question but this is getting to be a whole new world for me and even though I have had a digital for three years I am just now wanting to take advantage of the tools available. Thanks in advance for any help.

Ulysses said:

It's basic. Like Canon's ZoomBrowser, only without the file
management tools.

At the same time, you have a finer degree of control with WB,
Levels, Exposure/EV tools, and degrees of Sharpening.

The software is capable, yet a real puzzlement. Clearly it has room
for growth and interface adjustment.

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

I use RAW but not with Sony's software. Photoshop CS is able to read most RAW formats, including Sony's 828. It is totally RAW and I use Dfine (by nik mutlmedia, inc.) to take care of any noise. Between the two of them (Photoshop and Dfine) it works like a charm. Unfortunately Photoshop Elements does not have the RAW conversion capability.

Roger

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

I honestly don't know that I can recommend this method with the F828. The reason is because you may be able to gain some speed during any given shot since the shutter is faster (I still don't like this method of deliberately under-exposing for this type of event).

However, it takes several seconds to write the RAW image to memory. So you might miss important shots.

gstepic said:

In order to get a little more shutter speed for my basketball games
someone recommend I shoot in raw mode a little underexposed and
correct using the software. I imagine this is a pretty easy job.
Can I also do this with my photoshop elements? If I use the raw
mode and if I want to use neat image would I convert the file after
I make my exposure adjustments and then use NI? Probably a dumb
question but this is getting to be a whole new world for me and
even though I have had a digital for three years I am just now
wanting to take advantage of the tools available. Thanks in advance
for any help.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

When attempting to open an SRF file in Photoshop CS, you get the message:

"Could not complete your request because it is not the right kind of document."

Support for Sony's RAW format (SRF) will not come for a month or two, at the earliest.

You using something else that we don't know about? ;-)

Roger C. Levit said:

I use RAW but not with Sony's software. Photoshop CS is able to
read most RAW formats, including Sony's 828. It is totally RAW and
I use Dfine (by nik mutlmedia, inc.) to take care of any noise.
Between the two of them (Photoshop and Dfine) it works like a
charm. Unfortunately Photoshop Elements does not have the RAW
conversion capability.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

When did the start to support Sony RAW files?

Roger C. Levit said:

Roger

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Not a stupid question at all. I was asking the same thing 5 months ago.

All good points by Ulysses. RAW does take longer to write to the memory card, so it's not always the best option. But in theory, you can shoot a bit underexposed to gain some shutterspeed, and then brighten the RAW data up. It's worth taking at look at for sure.

So what you would do is...

1) Shoot with a shutterspeed that makes the image a bit darker (not too much). In other words, you can now shoot with a slightly faster shutterspeed. Shoot this in RAW

2) In the RAW program, it will give you exposure options. You can brighten the exposure up here by bumping up the EC. You also might be able to adjust other things like color and that kind of thing.

3) You convert this file to a file that Photoshop Elements can open. This will be either a TIF, or a jpg. I suggest TIF because you don't want an image with compression during NR or other editing. But this boosts the file size quite high. It's up to you.

4) You now open this TIF or jpg in Neat Image and use the NR using the profile that you build.

5) Then you open up the file in P Element, and do what ever you would be doing there. Curves, Levels, removing acne, or whatever. : )

So it does take some steps to using RAW. Hopefully the RAW software works quickly. And hopefully you can batch process these images.

Even better and likely is that someone will come out with an indepenant software/driver for working with Sony RAW.

Brian

Ulysses said:

However, it takes several seconds to write the RAW image to memory.
So you might miss important shots.

gstepic said:

In order to get a little more shutter speed for my basketball games
someone recommend I shoot in raw mode a little underexposed and
correct using the software. I imagine this is a pretty easy job.
Can I also do this with my photoshop elements? If I use the raw
mode and if I want to use neat image would I convert the file after
I make my exposure adjustments and then use NI? Probably a dumb
question but this is getting to be a whole new world for me and
even though I have had a digital for three years I am just now
wanting to take advantage of the tools available. Thanks in advance
for any help.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Three fundamental RAW questions:

1. What is approx size of a max resolution RAW file compared to TIFF and high quality JPEG
2. What are the operations that can be performed with SONY converter?
3. What operations are missing, compared to Cannon converter, etc?

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

This is great. Because I don't have the ability to see what options are showing up for the 828 in CS, can you give us a screenshot with an 828 image open in the RAW converter? I'm wondering if you can see certain options. Thanks!

Brian

}
:9)
}

Roger C. Levit said:

Roger

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Great descriptive tutorial, Brian.

I'd try it, for sure. I guess my only real concern would be that in a truly low-light situation you're probably going to get only one stop of real shutter speed improvement before the image file starts to get ugly. Maybe less. WE just don't know how much latitude the SRF files allow yet.

It will be nice to find out, though.

Brianos 2.0 said:

Not a stupid question at all. I was asking the same thing 5 months
ago.

All good points by Ulysses. RAW does take longer to write to the
memory card, so it's not always the best option. But in theory, you
can shoot a bit underexposed to gain some shutterspeed, and then
brighten the RAW data up. It's worth taking at look at for sure.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

I'm curious too, although the TIF is 22.8mb, and the jpgs seem to range between 3mb and maybe 4mb. Interesting considering my 300D images range in there as well and are 6mps. RAW I have no idea. Although 300D RAW ranges from 6-9mb with the images I've taken.

Brian

Gerry Pasternack said:

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=6979525

The Tiff file size and RAW are very similiar, depending on the amount of detail the pic has, its around 18MB. The similiar jpeg file is about 3.

Brianos 2.0 said:

This is what I'm really interested in. Who's used the RAW software?
What's the software like? Can you control Noise Reduction? What
sort of options are there in the software? How RAW does it let you
go?

Let's hear it. I'm sure some of you have been using it. RAW is a
great tool. : )

Brian

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Click to expand...

--
-Stan
stanc.net

just curious...how long does it take for the 82 to record a RAW image to MS/CF card, ie - camera recoil time? At close-to-tiff sizes, it must be noticable.

Yeah, that's true. I was expecting miracles with my 300D, and you have to watch out even there not to underexpose too much. In those shadows lunk some pretty ugly pixels at times. But it should give at least a slight advantage, which is enough for picky people. : )

Brian

Ulysses said:

I'd try it, for sure. I guess my only real concern would be that in
a truly low-light situation you're probably going to get only one
stop of real shutter speed improvement before the image file starts
to get ugly. Maybe less. WE just don't know how much latitude the
SRF files allow yet.

It will be nice to find out, though.

Brianos 2.0 said:

Not a stupid question at all. I was asking the same thing 5 months
ago.

All good points by Ulysses. RAW does take longer to write to the
memory card, so it's not always the best option. But in theory, you
can shoot a bit underexposed to gain some shutterspeed, and then
brighten the RAW data up. It's worth taking at look at for sure.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

--
The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------
http://adigitaldreamer.com
-------------------------------------
Portfolio at: http://www.skulpt.com

Whoops, sorry about that Ulysses. Yes, I'm using a beta version of the next Photoshop CS release. Have been for three weeks and it is so solid I completely forgot it was a beta as I use it for three different RAW formats. As far as I know they are about 30 days from a golden master.

Roger

Ulysses said:

"Could not complete your request because it is not the right kind
of document."

Support for Sony's RAW format (SRF) will not come for a month or
two, at the earliest.

You using something else that we don't know about? ;-)

Roger C. Levit said:

I use RAW but not with Sony's software. Photoshop CS is able to
read most RAW formats, including Sony's 828. It is totally RAW and
I use Dfine (by nik mutlmedia, inc.) to take care of any noise.
Between the two of them (Photoshop and Dfine) it works like a
charm. Unfortunately Photoshop Elements does not have the RAW
conversion capability.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

gstepic said:

In order to get a little more shutter speed for my basketball games
someone recommend I shoot in raw mode a little underexposed and
correct using the software. I imagine this is a pretty easy job.
Can I also do this with my photoshop elements? If I use the raw
mode and if I want to use neat image would I convert the file after
I make my exposure adjustments and then use NI? Probably a dumb
question but this is getting to be a whole new world for me and
even though I have had a digital for three years I am just now
wanting to take advantage of the tools available. Thanks in advance
for any help.

Click to expand...

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

It's often been recommended for people to underexpose with digicams since it is so easy to blow the highlights. However, for cameras equipped with RAW (like the F828), it's better to take advantage of the increased exposure latitude from RAW by overexposing somewhat to make the best use of your sensor, then use negative exposure compensation in the RAW converter to correct. This gives you the best image quality out of your sensor.

I'm not certain if the F828 allows for continued shooting while writing RAW files in the background like DSLRs do. If it doesn't, keep in mind that shooting RAW will dramatically increase your shot-to-shot times due to card writing.

About the only time where I'd deliberately underexpose is if I'm shooting action in a high-contrast situation where I can't combine frames to increase dynamic range, or to decrease shutter speed under very poor lighting (but this is extremely rare since I use f/2.8 zooms and a f/1.4 prime at ISOs up to 1600). Underexposing degrades image quality since correcting the exposure will also exacerbate shadow noise and decrease tonal range, and I disliked how often I had to do it in my old Coolpixes.

DaShiv

Thanks for your help U & B! I never had any trouble with my 35mm shooting these games but the shots right in front of me were sometimes blurred and I believe this is because when I got tight with my 200mm at the other end of the court the motion to the camera was not as severe as the motion 10 feet in front of me. If the senesitivity is similar to my Nikon N70 and the fuji film I used (nh2 or something like that - can't remember) then the F2:0 with the 828 may allow for a little extra speed. If shooting in raw effects lag then this is not an option for action shots.

I really hope I get my camera tomorrow because there is a game Saturday for the girls against Arizona and the next game won't be until 1/15. It is funny, I have gone two years without trying to do any serious shooting and all of a sudden i have to do it NOW! Patience is not a virtue of mine I guess!

I am going to try and learn to use smugmug this weekend and I will download neat image tommorrow so maybe I can figure out how to post some basketball shots soon. I will be real curious if the lag will be better than my Fuji S602. I will have two weeks off starting next week and I thought I would be catching up on a correspondence course i am taking and I can already see this is not going to happen! Darn you Sony!

Ulysses said:

I'd try it, for sure. I guess my only real concern would be that in
a truly low-light situation you're probably going to get only one
stop of real shutter speed improvement before the image file starts
to get ugly. Maybe less. WE just don't know how much latitude the
SRF files allow yet.

It will be nice to find out, though.

Brianos 2.0 said:

Not a stupid question at all. I was asking the same thing 5 months
ago.

All good points by Ulysses. RAW does take longer to write to the
memory card, so it's not always the best option. But in theory, you
can shoot a bit underexposed to gain some shutterspeed, and then
brighten the RAW data up. It's worth taking at look at for sure.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

This would be THE BOMBBBBBB!!!

Thank you, Roger C. Levit!!!

Roger C. Levit said:

Whoops, sorry about that Ulysses. Yes, I'm using a beta version of
the next Photoshop CS release. Have been for three weeks and it is
so solid I completely forgot it was a beta as I use it for three
different RAW formats. As far as I know they are about 30 days from
a golden master.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses