TTL wireless flash question

mhjackson · Dec 13, 2003

I am trying to set up a system whereby I can use my Pentax AF140C ring flash together with a wireless 360FGZ. I want to do this so as to try to give more sidelighting to the very flat lighting of the ring flash.

However, when I try to do so, I can get either the ring flash to work, or the wireless 360, but not both. The wireless system seems to be disabled when a flash is on the hot shoe. I even tried putting the ringflash onto a remote cable so as to allow the built in flash to pop up fully, but to no avail.

Any ideas? I would like the "system" to maintain TTL if possible, but realise that this may be impossible...

Steve-C · Dec 14, 2003

Why not use a slave unit on the 360 it is cheap and easy but will not maintain full TTL dedication. As long as your360 is not the dominant flash this should not make a lot of difference.

mhjackson said:
I am trying to set up a system whereby I can use my Pentax AF140C
ring flash together with a wireless 360FGZ. I want to do this so as
to try to give more sidelighting to the very flat lighting of the
ring flash.
However, when I try to do so, I can get either the ring flash to
work, or the wireless 360, but not both. The wireless system seems
to be disabled when a flash is on the hot shoe. I even tried
putting the ringflash onto a remote cable so as to allow the built
in flash to pop up fully, but to no avail.
Any ideas? I would like the "system" to maintain TTL if possible,
but realise that this may be impossible...

lak · Dec 14, 2003

I don't think AF140C is compatible with the wireless TTL flash which needs P-TTL compatibility. AF140C would only work in traditional non-wireless TTL flash mode. So you need to use the multi-flash adapter and cables to maintain TTL.

mhjackson said:
I am trying to set up a system whereby I can use my Pentax AF140C
ring flash together with a wireless 360FGZ. I want to do this so as
to try to give more sidelighting to the very flat lighting of the
ring flash.
However, when I try to do so, I can get either the ring flash to
work, or the wireless 360, but not both. The wireless system seems
to be disabled when a flash is on the hot shoe. I even tried
putting the ringflash onto a remote cable so as to allow the built
in flash to pop up fully, but to no avail.
Any ideas? I would like the "system" to maintain TTL if possible,
but realise that this may be impossible...

mhjackson · Dec 15, 2003

I think you are right. The multiflash adapter is probably the way to go as wireless will not work.

lak said:
mhjackson said:

I am trying to set up a system whereby I can use my Pentax AF140C
ring flash together with a wireless 360FGZ. I want to do this so as
to try to give more sidelighting to the very flat lighting of the
ring flash.
However, when I try to do so, I can get either the ring flash to
work, or the wireless 360, but not both. The wireless system seems
to be disabled when a flash is on the hot shoe. I even tried
putting the ringflash onto a remote cable so as to allow the built
in flash to pop up fully, but to no avail.
Any ideas? I would like the "system" to maintain TTL if possible,
but realise that this may be impossible...

Click to expand...

mhjackson · Dec 15, 2003

I could not find a multiflash TTL adapter listed anywhere. There is a 4P based one, but no 5P based one...

Should one be able to maintain TTL with 2 360FGZ flashes, bith wireless?

lak said:
mhjackson said:

I am trying to set up a system whereby I can use my Pentax AF140C
ring flash together with a wireless 360FGZ. I want to do this so as
to try to give more sidelighting to the very flat lighting of the
ring flash.
However, when I try to do so, I can get either the ring flash to
work, or the wireless 360, but not both. The wireless system seems
to be disabled when a flash is on the hot shoe. I even tried
putting the ringflash onto a remote cable so as to allow the built
in flash to pop up fully, but to no avail.
Any ideas? I would like the "system" to maintain TTL if possible,
but realise that this may be impossible...

Click to expand...

lak · Dec 15, 2003

mhjackson said:
I could not find a multiflash TTL adapter listed anywhere. There is
a 4P based one, but no 5P based one...

I just checked bhphotovideo.com and they have 5Ps in stock.

mhjackson said:
Should one be able to maintain TTL with 2 360FGZ flashes, bith
wireless?

Yes, if you use one or more 360FGZs and internal flash, you can use P-TTL wireless flash.

mhjackson · Dec 15, 2003

I checked out the site but could not find info on a multiflash 5P based adapter. they have all the adpaters and cables for a single fash.

lak said:
mhjackson said:

I could not find a multiflash TTL adapter listed anywhere. There is
a 4P based one, but no 5P based one...

Click to expand...

I just checked bhphotovideo.com and they have 5Ps in stock.

lak said:

Should one be able to maintain TTL with 2 360FGZ flashes, bith
wireless?

Click to expand...

Yes, if you use one or more 360FGZs and internal flash, you can use
P-TTL wireless flash.

Sylwiusz · Dec 17, 2003

mhjackson said:
Should one be able to maintain TTL with 2 360FGZ flashes, bith
wireless?

Yes, you can use up to four AF360FGZ in wireless mode and divide power between them (contrast control) to make lighting more natural. Quite tempting for macro works. If ut on *istD AF360 can act as a master (or controller) for other AF360s instead of built-in flash.

Regards
Sylwek

mhjackson · Dec 17, 2003

I have ordered a second 360 as it would seem that this is the only system that will give me good lighting and ttl.

I noticed that when I had the 500 set to wireless, that it was not compatible with the 360. The 500 fired on the preflash of the p-ttl

Sylwiusz said:
mhjackson said:

Should one be able to maintain TTL with 2 360FGZ flashes, bith
wireless?

Click to expand...

Yes, you can use up to four AF360FGZ in wireless mode and divide
power between them (contrast control) to make lighting more
natural. Quite tempting for macro works. If ut on *istD AF360 can
act as a master (or controller) for other AF360s instead of
built-in flash.

Regards
Sylwek

Sylwiusz · Dec 18, 2003

mhjackson said:
I have ordered a second 360 as it would seem that this is the only
system that will give me good lighting and ttl.

Very good choice - af360 is a cheap flash considering its possibilities and really very capble. I wonder however, if you could try to use af360 using its own auto mode wireless together with af140c. All you would have to do would be changing af360 to slave 2 mode. Press "light" button for at least 2 seconds then press "s" button and you are in slave 2 mode. All you have to do now is switch flash in A, set iso and aperture and you can work wirelessly. In-camera TTL control will cut off AF140c and flash automatic will cut off af360 light as soon as proper exposure is obtained. Of course it won't be as accurate as full TTL, but it is digital, you can quickly check what you should change to obtain good results

Let me know if it works - I plan to buy af140c in the future ;-)

mhjackson said:
I noticed that when I had the 500 set to wireless, that it was not
compatible with the 360. The 500 fired on the preflash of the p-ttl

Yup, you should work in plain TTL to make AF500 wireless mode useful.

BTW can you tell me one thing please? AF140c has two TTL settings - f5.6 and f22. Does it override what you set in *istD (let's say you have set f13 in *istD and af140c changes it automatically to f5.6 or f22 depending on switch position), or is it only for P mode to obtain either shallow or great DOF? TIA!

Best regards
Sylwek

mhjackson · Dec 18, 2003

Thanks for the feedback. I will test and get back to you.

Sylwiusz said:
mhjackson said:

I have ordered a second 360 as it would seem that this is the only
system that will give me good lighting and ttl.

Click to expand...

Very good choice - af360 is a cheap flash considering its
possibilities and really very capble. I wonder however, if you
could try to use af360 using its own auto mode wireless together
with af140c. All you would have to do would be changing af360 to
slave 2 mode. Press "light" button for at least 2 seconds then
press "s" button and you are in slave 2 mode. All you have to do
now is switch flash in A, set iso and aperture and you can work
wirelessly. In-camera TTL control will cut off AF140c and flash
automatic will cut off af360 light as soon as proper exposure is
obtained. Of course it won't be as accurate as full TTL, but it is
digital, you can quickly check what you should change to obtain
good results Let me know if it works - I plan to buy af140c in
the future ;-)

Sylwiusz said:

I noticed that when I had the 500 set to wireless, that it was not
compatible with the 360. The 500 fired on the preflash of the p-ttl

Click to expand...

Yup, you should work in plain TTL to make AF500 wireless mode useful.
BTW can you tell me one thing please? AF140c has two TTL settings -
f5.6 and f22. Does it override what you set in *istD (let's say you
have set f13 in *istD and af140c changes it automatically to f5.6
or f22 depending on switch position), or is it only for P mode to
obtain either shallow or great DOF? TIA!

Best regards
Sylwek

mhjackson · Dec 18, 2003

I did a test of the slave 2 setting and got it to work. I just need to experiment a bit with the angles and flash settings. The exposure was generally good.

As to the AF140C, if you have the camera set to P or green, it will automatically choose the appropriate f stop (8 or 32 using ISO 200), but it seems to work well with f 22. I was using it in aperture priority mode and it worked fine there too.
Thanks for the ideas.

Sylwiusz said:
mhjackson said:

I have ordered a second 360 as it would seem that this is the only
system that will give me good lighting and ttl.

Click to expand...

Very good choice - af360 is a cheap flash considering its
possibilities and really very capble. I wonder however, if you
could try to use af360 using its own auto mode wireless together
with af140c. All you would have to do would be changing af360 to
slave 2 mode. Press "light" button for at least 2 seconds then
press "s" button and you are in slave 2 mode. All you have to do
now is switch flash in A, set iso and aperture and you can work
wirelessly. In-camera TTL control will cut off AF140c and flash
automatic will cut off af360 light as soon as proper exposure is
obtained. Of course it won't be as accurate as full TTL, but it is
digital, you can quickly check what you should change to obtain
good results Let me know if it works - I plan to buy af140c in
the future ;-)

Sylwiusz said:

I noticed that when I had the 500 set to wireless, that it was not
compatible with the 360. The 500 fired on the preflash of the p-ttl

Click to expand...

Yup, you should work in plain TTL to make AF500 wireless mode useful.
BTW can you tell me one thing please? AF140c has two TTL settings -
f5.6 and f22. Does it override what you set in *istD (let's say you
have set f13 in *istD and af140c changes it automatically to f5.6
or f22 depending on switch position), or is it only for P mode to
obtain either shallow or great DOF? TIA!

Best regards
Sylwek

Sylwiusz · Dec 19, 2003

mhjackson said:
I did a test of the slave 2 setting and got it to work. I just need
to experiment a bit with the angles and flash settings. The
exposure was generally good.

That's great! Please post a few images as soon as you get some good results.

mhjackson said:
As to the AF140C, if you have the camera set to P or green, it will
automatically choose the appropriate f stop (8 or 32 using ISO
200), but it seems to work well with f 22. I was using it in
aperture priority mode and it worked fine there too.

And that's the info I wanted to hear

So AF140c seems to be very good option for me with its useful modelling light, as I like to take insects shots in the night and making such a photos with torch in one hand and camera in another is just very unconvenient

I'll buy it next year.

mhjackson said:
Thanks for the ideas.

You're welcome!

Best regards
Sylwek

mhjackson · Dec 19, 2003

Thanks for another tip! I had never noticed/used the modelling light function! It would be nice to turn it on/off from the camera, but I can see that it will be useful.
I will post some images when I have a chance to do some more experiments.

Sylwiusz said:
mhjackson said:

I did a test of the slave 2 setting and got it to work. I just need
to experiment a bit with the angles and flash settings. The
exposure was generally good.

Click to expand...

That's great! Please post a few images as soon as you get some good
results.

Sylwiusz said:

As to the AF140C, if you have the camera set to P or green, it will
automatically choose the appropriate f stop (8 or 32 using ISO
200), but it seems to work well with f 22. I was using it in
aperture priority mode and it worked fine there too.

Click to expand...

And that's the info I wanted to hear So AF140c seems to be very
good option for me with its useful modelling light, as I like to
take insects shots in the night and making such a photos with torch
in one hand and camera in another is just very unconvenient
I'll buy it next year.

Sylwiusz said:

Thanks for the ideas.

Click to expand...

You're welcome!

Best regards
Sylwek

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