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Fuji Frontier DPI question

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Bill Bertera

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I know the Fuji Frontier mini-lab prints at 300 dpi. If I want to print an 8 x 10, but don't have enough megapix to reach 300, should I enlarge to 300 dpi, or just use the max pixel I actually have?

Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.

thanks,
-Bill

--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm
 
Hi Bill,

If you are printing a digital camera file, you just specify the final print size and the lab will do the rest. Assuming the camera has sufficient resolution to produce an acceptable 8x10, you should be happy the result. I've seen 4 mega pixel or more recommended for 8x10, but if you are going to frame it and look at it from a few feet away less will produce quite acceptable results.

If you are creating your own image from PhotoShop or equivalent, begin with a background that is 8x10 @ 300 dpi and add the other elements.

I have had mixed results. The lab that I have been using for both film and digital prints with exellent results, did a terrible job with an original file that I created. They use the Fuji Frontier system. I don't know what went wrong. Possibly the software that labs use that apply automatic image corrections before printing can cause problems.

George
Bill Bertera said:
I know the Fuji Frontier mini-lab prints at 300 dpi. If I want to
print an 8 x 10, but don't have enough megapix to reach 300, should
I enlarge to 300 dpi, or just use the max pixel I actually have?

Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.

thanks,
-Bill

--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm
Click to expand...
 
Good question. One shouldn't assume that the lab will upsize for you.

My lab in Denver requires all files be interpolated to 300dpi at print size on the Frontier.
however...

whcc.com suggests that you do NOT upsize, and their system will do the interpolation for you.

Ask the lab which they suggest. If they don't have a very clear suggestion, then do the upsizing yourself. If they insist on upsizing (like whcc), then try doing a large print both ways to see if you like their algorithms. Most likely, they'll do as good a job as you can with PS.

Chris
Bill Bertera said:
I know the Fuji Frontier mini-lab prints at 300 dpi. If I want to
print an 8 x 10, but don't have enough megapix to reach 300, should
I enlarge to 300 dpi, or just use the max pixel I actually have?

Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.

thanks,
-Bill

--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm
Click to expand...
 
Bill Bertera said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
the Frontier's image controller will render the file to 300 dpi.

so if you send it a file at 200 (or 400 it doens't matter), the controller will interpolate up or down, whatever it needs to do to get the actual print size @300 dpi. sending a lower DPI image won't get you a print with lower DPI, it will just make the controller resample so the imager has a 300 dpi file to work with.
 
chris3010 said:
whcc.com suggests that you do NOT upsize, and their system will do
the interpolation for you.
Click to expand...
http://www.whcc.com/output_thrifty.html

"Files must be exact size at 300 dpi and in level 10 standard JPEG format "

http://www.whcc.com/output_deluxe.html

Files must be sized to the largest print size at 300 dpi and in level 10 standard JPEG format

http://www.whcc.com/faqs.html#17

How do I crop my files to the exact print size?

We recommend you use the Crop tool in Photoshop. It allows you to simply type in the height, width and resolution you want the final size to be. Exact print size means you crop to the exact size you are expecting to get back, such as 8 inches by 10 inches at 300 DPI....

Wayne Larmon
 
And how would you compare those interpolation results versus a photoshop? Any noticeable difference either way?
Chris Hanline said:
Chris Hanline said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
the Frontier's image controller will render the file to 300 dpi.

so if you send it a file at 200 (or 400 it doens't matter), the
controller will interpolate up or down, whatever it needs to do to
get the actual print size @300 dpi. sending a lower DPI image won't
get you a print with lower DPI, it will just make the controller
resample so the imager has a 300 dpi file to work with.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
 
Wayne, now I have conflicting information. After reading in whcc's mailed info packet that one should NOT upsize (as the system will do this for you, and it keeps the filesizes smaller), I emailed Cust Svc with this very question. The response I received was:
"As for your other question you do not need to upsize your file. "

Chris Hanline also responded to a post earlier today with the statement that the Fuji Frontier will do the upsizing.

Now I'm confused. I would rather do the upsizing so I can see how the image holds - and modify the interpolation scheme accordingly. But whcc has now in 3 different locations said that they will upsize. I will ask again why the FAQs conflict with this info...

(Do you work for whcc? I noticed a "we" in your post.)

Chris
Wayne Larmon said:
chris3010 said:
whcc.com suggests that you do NOT upsize, and their system will do
the interpolation for you.
Click to expand...
http://www.whcc.com/output_thrifty.html

"Files must be exact size at 300 dpi and in level 10 standard JPEG
format "
Click to expand...
 
Wayne, you've confused whcc's suggestion to "size" with the crop tool for smaller images with upsizing. They specifically recommend that customers do NOT "upsize" for larger prints.

From the whcc.com FAQ 17 that was linked in your post:

"For large prints should I really leave the resolution blank?

We suggest the following: If it is a single image, similar to images you would deliver shot on film, then yes, leave the resolution blank. Our equipment will resample the image for printing. A good analogy to this is a balloon, when you resample the file at your end you are blowing up a balloon, making it larger and harder to deal with as it gets transferred to us. Leave the balloon flat and let us blow it up. "

Chris

(ps: now I see how the "we" got in your post! the old cut & paste...)
Wayne Larmon said:
http://www.whcc.com/faqs.html#17
Click to expand...
 
Joe Wilson said:
Chris Hanline said:
Joe Wilson said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I just did precisely this process myself. I have one particular image that is a tiny crop from a full frame, but although there are insufficient pixels to provide a good print in theory, it prints particularly pleasingly.

Because it was such a small image file, I initially only ordered a 5 x 7 to see how good it would be and was very pleased with the results - they were better than I was expecting. As I'd had success in the past with interpolating image files larger with QImage, I decided to try the process on this file to see if it would improve it further. As I needed some more prints for Christmas gifts, I ordered them from the larger file. On screen at least, the interpolated file looked to have a little more detail and texture (I increased the amount of pixels in QImage, de-noised it slightly using NeatImage and then USMed it) but the print doesn't look any better - on balance, the prints (from the same lab) look better from the original small file, suggesting that their Frontier machine makes a better job of interpolating up than I did.

I suspect, as with all printing of digital images, that individual files will give differing results depending on a lot of factors other than pixel counts. The original image file was 507x710 pixels, so only 100ppi and the larger one was 1014 x 1420 around 200ppi. This is the image and although the blurred background and light spots were much smoother in the larger file prints, the detail of the feathers was too. On balance I prefer the prints from the smaller file.

http://www.zenadsl5251.zen.co.uk/photos/oct03/oct1187.jpg

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live music tutorial
 
Great info. Thanks. I've been upsizing before I have printed but I think I'm going to do a few tests to see which looks best just as you did.
Boo said:
Joe Wilson said:
Chris Hanline said:
Boo said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I just did precisely this process myself. I have one particular
image that is a tiny crop from a full frame, but although there are
insufficient pixels to provide a good print in theory, it prints
particularly pleasingly.

Because it was such a small image file, I initially only ordered a
5 x 7 to see how good it would be and was very pleased with the
results - they were better than I was expecting. As I'd had
success in the past with interpolating image files larger with
QImage, I decided to try the process on this file to see if it
would improve it further. As I needed some more prints for
Christmas gifts, I ordered them from the larger file. On screen at
least, the interpolated file looked to have a little more detail
and texture (I increased the amount of pixels in QImage, de-noised
it slightly using NeatImage and then USMed it) but the print
doesn't look any better - on balance, the prints (from the same
lab) look better from the original small file, suggesting that
their Frontier machine makes a better job of interpolating up than
I did.

I suspect, as with all printing of digital images, that individual
files will give differing results depending on a lot of factors
other than pixel counts. The original image file was 507x710
pixels, so only 100ppi and the larger one was 1014 x 1420 around
200ppi. This is the image and although the blurred background and
light spots were much smoother in the larger file prints, the
detail of the feathers was too. On balance I prefer the prints
from the smaller file.

http://www.zenadsl5251.zen.co.uk/photos/oct03/oct1187.jpg

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live
music tutorial
Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
 
Bill Bertera said:
I know the Fuji Frontier mini-lab prints at 300 dpi. If I want to
print an 8 x 10, but don't have enough megapix to reach 300, should
I enlarge to 300 dpi, or just use the max pixel I actually have?

Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.

thanks,
-Bill

--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm
Click to expand...
--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm
 
The software uses bicubic just like Photoshop (prior to CS with its bicubic sharp and soft). it should be identical to photoshop
Joe Wilson said:
Chris Hanline said:
Joe Wilson said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
the Frontier's image controller will render the file to 300 dpi.

so if you send it a file at 200 (or 400 it doens't matter), the
controller will interpolate up or down, whatever it needs to do to
get the actual print size @300 dpi. sending a lower DPI image won't
get you a print with lower DPI, it will just make the controller
resample so the imager has a 300 dpi file to work with.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
Click to expand...
 
Awesome, thanks!

So I guess the only difference would be...would it be preferable to sharpen before the interpolation (i.e. let the Frontier do it) or after the interpolation (i.e. do it in Photoshop).
Chris Hanline said:
Joe Wilson said:
Chris Hanline said:
Chris Hanline said:
Will the Fuji print at a lower dpi, or will it add the pixels it
needs to get 300? I'd rather add it myself in photoshop, so I can
sharpen it myself, than have the printer do it.
Click to expand...
the Frontier's image controller will render the file to 300 dpi.

so if you send it a file at 200 (or 400 it doens't matter), the
controller will interpolate up or down, whatever it needs to do to
get the actual print size @300 dpi. sending a lower DPI image won't
get you a print with lower DPI, it will just make the controller
resample so the imager has a 300 dpi file to work with.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.joesimages.com
 
As said in a post below, the Frontier (more specifically the PIC Pro Image Controller) will make a file into whatever it needs to be to get printed, regardless of what you send.

We request 'small' prints be sized at exact size at 300 dpi for a couple reasons:

1. not everyone is familar with aspect ratio/resolution and if we didn't have 'exact' requirements people wouldn't get back what they expect because they would do it wrong.

2. We dont want your huge camera files for wallets. :) as well as other smaller sizes. Yes, 8x10@300dpi is upsampling for many digital cameras, but 8x10 is also a logical cut off when dealing with people.

And we request you 'let the resolution fall where it falls' for the larger prints as explained in the FAQs:
chris3010 said:
"For large prints should I really leave the resolution blank?

We suggest the following: If it is a single image, similar to
images you would deliver shot on film, then yes, leave the
resolution blank. Our equipment will resample the image for
printing. A good analogy to this is a balloon, when you resample
the file at your end you are blowing up a balloon, making it larger
and harder to deal with as it gets transferred to us. Leave the
balloon flat and let us blow it up. "
Click to expand...
theres a bit more than wasn't copied in by the previous poster:
chris3010 said:
On the other hand, if your image has text, is a multi-image panel
print, or you want to sharpen and perform extra work on the
image, please resample the image to the final size to insure
sharp text and the best results. The difference is these
computer-generated modifications make use of the extra
resolution, while the original single image would not.
Click to expand...
Chris Hanline
WHCC
 
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