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DMT
Well-known member
At least I have the luxury of talking as much time as necessary futzing with my images from this camera. I'd hate to be on deadline with the thing. I had a shooting job last weekend (suit and tie affair) and used my D1x bodies instead (constantly chimping to correct flash exposure, of course). I saw a little moire in some wildlife images I shot Sunday but they printed awesome at 13x19 anyway; it wasn't over-sharpening and it wasn't noise. Oh well. Different cameras for different jobs I guess.
Hopefuilly the D2x will be an 8MP version of the D2h without these two irritating problems. That's the camera I've been waiting for anyway. We'll see.
Frustrating that such an incredible body has an achilles heel (or two).
DMT
dmtimaging.com
Hopefuilly the D2x will be an 8MP version of the D2h without these two irritating problems. That's the camera I've been waiting for anyway. We'll see.
Frustrating that such an incredible body has an achilles heel (or two).
DMT
dmtimaging.com
Iliah Borg
Forum Pro
IMHO Thom is quite right.
The issue was brought to attention of Nikon NC development team Steve P. about a month ago. We suggested including de-moire option to noise reduction in NC.
Having no answer, we voiced the suggestion about DeMorize plugin in PS here, for example in
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=6745732
and in RG forum (Nick Livshits), not only in private correspondance with Shad
, because this was mainly aimed to alert Nikon.
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no text
The issue was brought to attention of Nikon NC development team Steve P. about a month ago. We suggested including de-moire option to noise reduction in NC.
Having no answer, we voiced the suggestion about DeMorize plugin in PS here, for example in
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=6745732
and in RG forum (Nick Livshits), not only in private correspondance with Shad
, because this was mainly aimed to alert Nikon. --
no text
Peter Dove
Leading Member
I was able to clean it up very well! Have a try ed!
Is it possible to have the NEF version of this file? T see how good I can clean it up.
Peter
Is it possible to have the NEF version of this file? T see how good I can clean it up.
Peter
DMT
Well-known member
Karl Westman
Well-known member
This moire effect is caused by certain woven fabrics. It appears frequently in TV news shows where a lot of the guys are wearing cotton shirts.
It has nothing to do with noise.
Kind regards,
Karl
It has nothing to do with noise.
Kind regards,
Karl
jean-Claude Monier
Leading Member
Could we have access to the image out of NC4 and not too compressed.
The one you provide for analysis is out of photoshop and overcompressed.
I also like to see the exif data.
It seems to me that the bad quality of this image is mainly due to overcompression, underexposure and wrong white balance.
I can admit that the light was not easy to manage but this is what a pro is suppose to do.
JC
France: http://www.pbase.com/jcmonier/ pbase supporter
The one you provide for analysis is out of photoshop and overcompressed.
I also like to see the exif data.
It seems to me that the bad quality of this image is mainly due to overcompression, underexposure and wrong white balance.
I can admit that the light was not easy to manage but this is what a pro is suppose to do.
JC
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France: http://www.pbase.com/jcmonier/ pbase supporter
).... seriously it is moiré, and the previous moiré king was the 1D.
I have no idea if routines run on the affected1D files work with the D2h, but they professionals there have had to deal with this quite a bit.
Suits like your sample was featured a few months back and the guy was beside himself with rage too, it’s sadly understandable, but the moiré is a trade off for otherwise superior and cleaner images needing overall less PS work.
Shooting in RAW may emphasise the effect, it does apparently with the 1D, but in severe cases nothing stoops it appearing.
I have no idea if routines run on the affected1D files work with the D2h, but they professionals there have had to deal with this quite a bit.
Suits like your sample was featured a few months back and the guy was beside himself with rage too, it’s sadly understandable, but the moiré is a trade off for otherwise superior and cleaner images needing overall less PS work.
Shooting in RAW may emphasise the effect, it does apparently with the 1D, but in severe cases nothing stoops it appearing.
.... well Canon 1D users are more acquainted with this problem, so we probably know more about it and angle to avoid (lessen) it if possible, one can see it in the viewfinder if one looks carefully.
.... and is a step up from the average expectancy from a Nikon, in this P&S environment and flash, I’d be very excited about this shot. The average Nikon would tend to blow out the flash on this subject with this framing and in a short walk one would be lucky to get one good exposure, on average.
So I can see why the guy is so perplexed with the moiré, on one hand he now has exquisite imagery in an flash, but new problems raise their heads to pay for it, frustrating.
However, hopefully the problem will be limited, the camera is classified as photojournalism, as this issue rules it out as it rules out the 1D for wedding photography, so potential users take note.
Moiré is a strange beast, it can sometimes be seen in the viewfinder and one may shift slightly to minimise it but in most case it appears out of PP and may be enhanced by the PP applications, it may also be suppressed by the appropriate PP prices.
AdWiser88638
Senior Member
Hi Edward
Not noise but actually moire. If you want to obtain the same effect from a 6 mp file (i.e. the D100) you could shot a macro of a feather (100% no moire) then resize screen size (a 800x600 would do the job). It's similar to what your D2h did in that situation. Sometimes it could be a solution to move closer to your subject. The color shift could be (but not necesarilly) due to the flash reflected by some specific material used in the fabric of the shirt.
It's not a rare situation at all. Actually that guy would be asked before a tv broadcast to change his outfit (seen this).
On a second note I'd like to thank you for the mature way you posted a subject with inflamatory potential. If everyone else complaining about something would post examples as you did, this forum would be a better place. Kudos!
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regards,
AdWiser
Not noise but actually moire. If you want to obtain the same effect from a 6 mp file (i.e. the D100) you could shot a macro of a feather (100% no moire) then resize screen size (a 800x600 would do the job). It's similar to what your D2h did in that situation. Sometimes it could be a solution to move closer to your subject. The color shift could be (but not necesarilly) due to the flash reflected by some specific material used in the fabric of the shirt.
It's not a rare situation at all. Actually that guy would be asked before a tv broadcast to change his outfit (seen this).
On a second note I'd like to thank you for the mature way you posted a subject with inflamatory potential. If everyone else complaining about something would post examples as you did, this forum would be a better place. Kudos!
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regards,
AdWiser
AdWiser88638
Senior Member
Hi Edward
I realize no I kind of missed my point. MOire would go away if one is given more resolution. But if you shot a 6 mp picture the moire would appear again when the editor would resize that picture. I'm in doubt that each PJ could convince editors to publish their images in half page or double spread ;-) Usually this kind of image is printed in a similar size to 3.5 x 2.7 inches (that's 1063x827 pixels at 300dpi) which means that even if you'd pass a moire free 6mp or better image it will be resized to the point that moire would start showing.
I hope this helps.
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regards,
AdWiser
I realize no I kind of missed my point. MOire would go away if one is given more resolution. But if you shot a 6 mp picture the moire would appear again when the editor would resize that picture. I'm in doubt that each PJ could convince editors to publish their images in half page or double spread ;-) Usually this kind of image is printed in a similar size to 3.5 x 2.7 inches (that's 1063x827 pixels at 300dpi) which means that even if you'd pass a moire free 6mp or better image it will be resized to the point that moire would start showing.
I hope this helps.
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regards,
AdWiser
steve constable
Well-known member
Two even quicker methods of removing moire
1. copy background layer and apply a gaussian blur filter just enough to see the moire vanish but don't over do it!
Change the layer blending mode of the gaussian blur layer to colour and adjust the layer opacity as necessary to a point just before the moire gets ugly.
2. Download Phase Ones DSLT capture software after trail period Phase one lest you keep the de-moire filter as a photodhop plug in free of charge!
Moire even occurs on £17,000 MF backs although the newer 22 meg ones are less prone to such problems.
Steve
1. copy background layer and apply a gaussian blur filter just enough to see the moire vanish but don't over do it!
Change the layer blending mode of the gaussian blur layer to colour and adjust the layer opacity as necessary to a point just before the moire gets ugly.
2. Download Phase Ones DSLT capture software after trail period Phase one lest you keep the de-moire filter as a photodhop plug in free of charge!
Moire even occurs on £17,000 MF backs although the newer 22 meg ones are less prone to such problems.
Steve
DavidMillier
Forum Pro
Ger
Moire is an sampling artifact created by the sensor. As DSLRs have optical viewfinders I'm puzzled as to how the effect could be visible...
Moire is an sampling artifact created by the sensor. As DSLRs have optical viewfinders I'm puzzled as to how the effect could be visible...
Hello there Mr. Bee.
As usual you hit the bull's eye: photojournalism!
I trust that everybody that is out for a camera will consider this seriously and not expect from the camera marvels to which the same is not dedicated.
Take good care of yourself.
Raul
As usual you hit the bull's eye: photojournalism!
I trust that everybody that is out for a camera will consider this seriously and not expect from the camera marvels to which the same is not dedicated.
Take good care of yourself.
Raul
Iliah Borg
Forum Pro
Aha.
And sometimes changing WB in NC helps too.
Image is in native color space, that is Nikon Adobe RGB.
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kecohen
Senior Member
OK, well, dusk, very overcast would not in itself give you K6000, so I'm assuming your cameraman friend was metering the additional light being thrown from his and others' portable lighting units, yes? And you were using flash in addition?
It would seem to me that using his reading without compensating for your flash could well blow your WB. That could account for the color shift. Normal flash would be about 5500, and you were already 500 higher (yellower) than that. As for moire, this is a problem inherent in digital cameras, all of them except possibly the 1DS (according to my buddy who is a pro architecture shooter, who suffered with moire with both his Kodak 760 and even more with his Canon 1D.)
In this case, it might have been better to shoot in Auto WB and use the DeMoirize filter or create your own action in PS to correct moire as someone else suggested, by adding a gaussian blur to the A channel. BTW, PS CS now gives you channel control in the RAW conversion dialog box to fix chromatic aberration. The old version just gave you a click box for moire filtering (on/off).
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Karen
...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.
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http://www.edaphoto.com
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AdWiser88638
Senior Member
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