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FZ-10 Action shots (high school bball) Pictures

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M_Thomas

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Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
 
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Michelle

I think in most respects they are excellent photos. All you need is more shutter speed. I imagine these were shot at about 1/120. Go to around 1/180 - 1/220 and they should come out very sharp. Just set to shutter priority and set the speed (presuming your flash will sinc with the shutter).

I took photos last night at a high school game - no flash (don't have one yet) and after processing yours are MUCH better than my results.

I don't think this is a camera for indoor sports w/o a flash.

Good luck and I hope your team wins.
jnewp
--
Faugh a Ballagh
 
Hi Michelle:

These images are not as bad as you seem to think! Try setting shutter priority and using a slightly higher shutter speed, and use some post-processing to brighten them up and reduce noise. (use levels or curves) Those conditions, especially as far away as you appear to be, are difficult.

Also, practice at home with that flash and learn the settings with which it works best.

Good luck, don't become overly discouraged!

Jack Winberg
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
 
jwinberg1 said:
Hi Michelle:

These images are not as bad as you seem to think!
Click to expand...
I agree, I think your pictures are great! And the camera certainly "stopped the action"! The Panasonic's flash is uselss at that distance, I wouldn't even bother with it. These photos could easily be lightened and sharpened with Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro.

The more photos I see from this amazing camera, the more I want one!
 
Okay, now I dont feel soooo bad...just a little LOL. Thanks for all the feedback, very helpful. Now I have more questions...

I tried to set shutter speed to higher/faster, but it would not go higher than 1/60 without the EVF getting dark. The higher/faster I put the shutter speed the darker the EVF got. I figured if I could make the shutter speed faster, I could get better pix. Any idea how to do this? Also how do I make the flash work on a faster shutterspeed (I think thats what I'm trying to say)? In other words I have no idea on how to make the flash work...lol

Thanks again,

Michelle

PS thanks for wishing my sons team well!
Joanne said:
jwinberg1 said:
Hi Michelle:

These images are not as bad as you seem to think!
Click to expand...
I agree, I think your pictures are great! And the camera certainly
"stopped the action"! The Panasonic's flash is uselss at that
distance, I wouldn't even bother with it. These photos could
easily be lightened and sharpened with Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro.

The more photos I see from this amazing camera, the more I want one!
Click to expand...
 
EXIF indicates ISO 400, F.28 1/80 sec. You have reached the camera's limit. Forcing the shutter to 1/125 or 1/500 would uder expose.

ISO 800 or even 1600 would get the ideal shot; with a higher ISO you could get to 1/500 sec and freeze the action.

Two things that may help:
1. Manually set White Balance for the room. See page 69 of the manual.

2. Use the flash, but the put camera in M mode and set ISO=400, F2.8 and then experiment with shutter speeds: 1/125, 1/500. The falsh will help fill in. You will also need to test the various White Balance settings (page 67).

Peteyy
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
 
Peteyy said:
EXIF indicates ISO 400, F.28 1/80 sec. You have reached the
camera's limit. Forcing the shutter to 1/125 or 1/500 would uder
expose.

ISO 800 or even 1600 would get the ideal shot; with a higher ISO
you could get to 1/500 sec and freeze the action.

Two things that may help:
1. Manually set White Balance for the room. See page 69 of the
manual.
2. Use the flash, but the put camera in M mode and set ISO=400,
F2.8 and then experiment with shutter speeds: 1/125, 1/500. The
falsh will help fill in. You will also need to test the various
White Balance settings (page 67).
Click to expand...
shutter priority will get you 1/500 and f2.8 with an external flash. set the external flash menu item to manual instead of preset (preset maxes out at 1/250, manual goes all the way up to 1/2000) just set the speed to 1/500 and the camera will set the aperture to f2.8. you then have to worry whether the flash will give you enough light and your focus because the lens is wide open. if you use full manual mode, you won't be able to see anything through the viewfinder or LCD
Peteyy said:
Peteyy
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Peteyy said:
Peteyy said:
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I did do the WB. I bought an 18% grey card and used it. I will try your other advice and let you guys know the results late this evening or in the AM.

When you say under expose, that is why the EVF got dark...correct? If this is correct then for a newbie like me I like this feature, as I need all the help I can get...lol :)

Thanks again,

Michelle
Peteyy said:
ISO 800 or even 1600 would get the ideal shot; with a higher ISO
you could get to 1/500 sec and freeze the action.

Two things that may help:
1. Manually set White Balance for the room. See page 69 of the
manual.
2. Use the flash, but the put camera in M mode and set ISO=400,
F2.8 and then experiment with shutter speeds: 1/125, 1/500. The
falsh will help fill in. You will also need to test the various
White Balance settings (page 67).

Peteyy
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The following suggestions are definitely NOT from an expert; I'm trying to figure out some of the same things you are...

1. use a faster shutter speed to stop the action, even though the result will be underexposed. You can brighten those images surprisingly well in almost any image editor. An editor that supports "levels" will do the best. PhotoShop Elements (under $100, sometimes on sale for $50) or Paint Shop Pro (also under $100) are both good choices.

2. for even better post-processing, consider buying Applied Science Fiction's "Digital SHO" plug-in for $49. (It works with PhotoShop-compatible products.) The website is http://www.asf.com but they recently were acquired by Kodak. Their home page lists two versions of SHO: at the top of the page is the Professional one for $100 or so; the original is further down. (I've been using the $49 one for a couple of years and the company's name is not exaggerated.) There are other tools like this available, and some of them may be as good or better, but I haven't tried them and can't give an opinion about them.

3. if you are allowed to use a flash at the game, try an external flash. You may be too far away from the players for even an external flash to do much, but it may help a bit. At least, it'll supplement the available lighting.

4. remember that higher ISO's produce noisier (grainier) images. The camera's CCD has a fixed sensitivity, so raising ISO is not like changing from ASA 100 film to ASA 400 film. All the camera does is to amplify the signal more than normal, and that emphasizes the noise. Post-process brightening in an image editor (via LEVELS or SHO) can give you higher quality results because the computer has a far more powerful CPU and a lot more time to do a good job than the camera has.

5. you can raise the EVF's brightness on the SETUP menu for better visibility when composing the shot. This does not affect the captured image.

If possible experiment in advance at home with faster shutter and/or lower ISO's, so you won't wind up using unacceptable combinations at the games.
And, as others have said, you had several very good pictures in there
--
Charlie Howard
 
Actually, Michelle, I'm impressed that you were able to get almost stop action photos with the FZ10 in a high school gym - I never was able to with my FZ1. You've encouraged me to try again with my FZ10.

To get good stop-action photos in poor lighting like this, you either need 1. Higher ISO capability (1600-3200), or 2. Good flash lighting.

Since the FZ10 isn't capable of higher ISO, you need a flash with a higher GN (Guide Number). Your pics without flash were taken at ISO 400 (hence the noise), but the pics with flash were taken at ISO 100. Since the flash couldn't reach that far, the flash pics were underexposed. So your choices are to shoot without flash and run the pictures through Neat Image (or other noise-reduction software), or buy a more powerful flash and try to get closer to the action. Your Sunpack DS-20 has a GN of about 58 (at ISO 100), which will get you to around 20 ft. maximum. My Vivitar 283 has a GN of 120 at ISO 100, which supposedly would allow me to shoot up to 40 ft. at f2.8 (GN/aperture = distance in ft.), although in auto mode, the Vivitar maxes out at 30 ft.

If you do buy a more powerful flash, make sure the output voltage is less than 24V, or your FZ10 could be damaged. (I use a Wein SafeSync hot shoe, since the the Vivitar 283 has a high output voltage.)

Using a stronger flash will give you better pictures than shooting at ISO 400. (But the background crowd will be almost black, since they're out of the flash range). Shooting without flash, you're just not going to get much better than your first couple of shots (again, running the pics through Neat Image will help a little, but still won't be very good above 4x6 print size.)
-Steve
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
 
Excellent answer, Steve.

That flash you're using, Michelle, is practically worthless under this scenario. High school gyms (and football fields) are a tough venue, unless you have a DSLR.

fsw
ssteppe said:
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Okay, I took some of the advice I was given and here are some of the better pix (unedited, except for one I tried to lighten) that are a little better. There are five, I think...lol. I'm having a senior moment...LOL!

Anyways, I think these are the best I will get until I get a better flash. I must say to me they look better and, all things considered, I am satisfied. Next weekend we have another tournament and I will use the other information you guys gave me.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288408813&idx=6

I got really confused with the flash thing...I couldn't make it go to 1/500 or even 1/250.

Thanks again,

Michelle
fsw said:
That flash you're using, Michelle, is practically worthless under
this scenario. High school gyms (and football fields) are a tough
venue, unless you have a DSLR.

fsw
ssteppe said:
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
 
This is what I discovered works (as good as it gets) using my Sunpak 433D flash:

1. Set to S mode
2. Set shutter to 1/500
3. Set camera to manual focus
4. Prefocus subject w/ either ring or pressing pre-focus button
5. Take picture, without pressing trigger half-way, just fire immediately

There is about a one second delay as S mode adjusts the shutter from 1/60 to 1/500 then takes the picture. You will witness the EVF fade and then the picture expose.

Using this method you can see through the EVF until the trigger is touched. Even pressing the trigger half-way causes the EVF to go dark as S mode adjusts from 1/60 to 1/500.

Unfortunately this one second delay is the best trade-off I have discovered to be able to use the camera in low-light. In action scenes you will have to anticipate the shot.

Peteyy
M_Thomas said:
Anyways, I think these are the best I will get until I get a better
flash. I must say to me they look better and, all things
considered, I am satisfied. Next weekend we have another
tournament and I will use the other information you guys gave me.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288408813&idx=6

I got really confused with the flash thing...I couldn't make it go
to 1/500 or even 1/250.

Thanks again,

Michelle
fsw said:
That flash you're using, Michelle, is practically worthless under
this scenario. High school gyms (and football fields) are a tough
venue, unless you have a DSLR.

fsw
ssteppe said:
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix. I am want to get some
decent pictures. I realize the highschool gym is difficult, but I
feel if I knew more than I do I could some a little better than
these. I have a DS-20 flash and when I used it in auto (don't have
a clue how to use in manual) the picture came out darker than when
I didn't flash.

I'm going to another game in about 4 hrs and hope to come away with
better pix.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

PS I also realize the pictures are not going to be like a dslr. I
just want to get the best I can with what I have :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Well maybe I need to get the 433D flash, I could not set the one I have to a faster S...it would only do 1/60. Also I don't know how to work it, I did print someones instructions and try it but it didtn't work. Maybe the instructions were for the 433D.

Tels,

I don't mind posting somewhere else...do you mind giving me some ideas where else?

Thanks,

Michelle
Tels said:
M_Thomas said:
Will someone please look at my terrible pictures and give me any
advice you may have to improve my pix.
Click to expand...
Tels said:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288395325&congratulation_page=Y
Click to expand...
If you upload them to anothe rimage host - I boycott imagestation.
(It doesn't work without IE, anyway)

Best wishes,

Tels

--
http://bloodgate.com/photos - Nikon Coolpix 5000 & Panasonic FZ2
Click to expand...
 
Michelle,

I'm not sure if this will work, but try these settings:

1. Mode dial - sports mode
2. IS - Mode 1
3. ISO - 100
4. WB - tungsten
5. Flash - none

Then, don't forget to filter the noise in Neat Image.

edmiller
 
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