"Screen your Curves" SUPER TIP! (pics)

Anyway, Boo, would you care please to show us how you would retouch
the picture below, I'd really want to see and learn.
I'd be very happy to, it's already been done (whether I now remember exactly how I did it is another matter), but the photo is not mine to post. If the OP is happy for me to post his image, I'd be happy to oblige and explain how I did it, which was not the technique in the initial tutorial - which I tired but found very heavy handed for that image - they might be much better on other harder pictures (architectural or landscape scenes), but they destroyed they poor young lady's complexion and hair texture too much for my taste.

I think my result has considerably better colour and tonal range than the original and is more natural looking than the other offerings made of a result, but with retouching as with the original photography, it would rather depend on what you wanted to achieve and the end use of the photograph as to what result was acceptable or desirable. If it were wanted for the cover of Vogue, I'd send the photographer back to shoot it again, but for a company profile page on a commercial web site or a print for granny for Christmas, my result would happily fit the bill. If it were for a cosmetics or hair care product advert you might find the soft 'glow' the other results presented with to be more acceptable. I personally didn't like it, so avoided it, so taste will be a factor as well.

--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live music tutorial
 
1. DigitalTrinity did nothing wrong in posting tips he read in a
book, and what he did post is in no way infringment upon the rights
of the author and to the contrary is protected speech in the US.
(And I believe in the UK.)

2. A world such as the one you advocate where it is wrong to post
in one's own words some ideas read in a book is a frightening, ugly
place where I surely would never want to live.

3. I do not approve of you attempting to force your viewpoint from
number 2 upon the rest of us, and ask that you stop trying to
debeautify my world with your words, though I acknowlege you have
every right to feel the way you do and to say what you want to say.
I fully understand that you have 'lost all respect' for me, that is your priviledge, but please at least extend me the courtesy of doing so for what I've actually said and not what you think I've said - and what others have incorrectly paraphrased my point as.

I have not said that the OP should not post a recommendation for the book or the ideas from it, or that he should be sued for doing so - I have said several times that he probably wouldn't have grounds as the excerpt would probably qualify as 'acceptable use'. What I have said - repeatedly - is that justifying publishing someone else's work with phrases like 'hell, he should hire me' and 'I'm single handedly feeding his family' is in poor taste in my view as a justification for the posting and the OP has to respect the possibility that whilst the author may well be delighted at the recommendations for his commercially available published work being made public in this manner, the poster has to respect the possibility that he might not be and would be quite within his rights to object. Whether he'd actually bother to do anything about it or would have the legal means to do so is another matter entirely - that was not my point.

It is the blanket assumption that it's okay to post content of the book for discussion because it generates sales and the manner in which that justification was presented that I have a problem with - that choice is not necessarily the OPs to make. Mr Kelby may very well be over the moon at the posting, but it shouldn't be assumed that he will be, he has the right not to be. Perhaps my argument is too subtle a concept for you.
A large part of what you originally posted and
have continued to post has an effect on many of us much like the
sickening feeling one would get having overheard a KKK member
discussing his opinions on people with dark skin.
You sir, just went too far. That was offensive on so many levels. I too just lost respect for your argument.
Thank you. I hope you one day realize what you are advocating.
I'm advocating that the female subject of a private picture (as opposed to one posed for known publication) gives permission to be published and to be treated in public with due respect and that the author of a book from which extracts are published, should also be shown professional respect and courtesy and his rights considered. How does that make my views comparable with those expressed by the KKK?

--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live music tutorial
 
JF I agree with your post entirely. I think you will find that the copyright issue is exactly the same in the UK and I find the false hurt that Boo pretends is quite sickening considering the fact that all DigitalTrinity was trying to do was to share a tip that he/she thought would be useful to others. In doing so he/she attracted a vitriolic attack entirely disproportionate to the tone of the initial post. Boo, get a life!
That's one of my own based on experience -
not published from a book without the author's permission. I'm
afraid that your defence that you're sending sales his way rather
misses the point - it's not your decision to make, the author
should have the right to choose if and where sections of his work
are published and be under his control. Crediting him with it
doesn't justify what you've done.
Luckily in the United States, where I live, we have laws that
establish that it is perfectly acceptable for DigitalTrinity to
come on here and tell us all about how helpful and useful a book he
read is. Luckily we even have laws that protect his ability to
come onto this forum and to share whatever ideas he read in that
book for anyone he choses to see. He need not even credit the
author of the book where he read those ideas, as no "thought/mind"
law yet exists in the US to force him to do so.

For circumstances such as this, we have copyright law, and as it
should, US copyright applies only to fixed, original and creative
expression, and not to the ideas or facts upon which the expression
is based. For example, any facts found by an author - such as how
a certain effect of a software program when applied to an image
with certain settings produces whiter teeth - are immediately and
instantly in the public domain and free for all to
use/discuss/share.

Taken to the extreme DigitalTrinity is even free to write his own
book, based solely on the one he read, and containing all the "tips
and tricks" discovered by the original author, and then sell it as
a competing product providing no credit whatsoever to the author of
the book he learned the tips from - provided the new book is
written in his own words. The reasons as to why this is a good
thing for humanity are left to you to explore.

As for this thread - In the US DigitalTrinity would need to post
direct quotations from the book to even be involved with copyright
law. And even then it would surely fall within the realm of fair
use.

Boo: As far as I am concerned, the thoughts you have expressed in
this thread scare me. Your world is ugly. Please, please, please
don't ruin mine and ever attempt to force me to live in such a
dreadful, frightening place.

-JF
 
I'd be very happy to, it's already been done (whether I now
remember exactly how I did it is another matter), but the photo is
not mine to post. If the OP is happy for me to post his image, I'd
be happy to oblige and explain how I did it
I suspect That DigitalTrinity might not want his photo reproducing by me, in view that my offer to post an alternative has been rejected several times already, so this is a photo I took yesterday when setting up my camera and tripod in my office to see how efficient the new remote switch I've made might prove for shots of birds on my feeder, some of which are too timid for me to catch when holding the camera. I was just setting up and testing it was working and hadn't decided on flash arrangements and took this shot to see if there was any lag etc. - I trashed the rest of the tests, but the tongue poking out amused me as being a tad different and worth looking more at. This is a small copy the orginal shot:



There are several techniques I use for lightening underexposed shots, often in combination - this shot was heavily underexposed and WB was wrong etc. Often applying a technique to solve one problem creates others and separate techniques are required in tandem to produce a decent end result - this was one such shot.

One of my favoured techniques is to use curves - it's an incredibly powerful tool for adjusting images - but this can also kill saturation and detail on dark images - so only good for modest changes - although duplicating the image and making the blend mode 'soft light' can give the image a boost (at about 30 or 40% transparency - 100% will be way too hrash). I also like to use what I now know is a contrast mask. I was working on an image some months ago and not paying attention and clicked automatically on some settings and got the wrong ones and was amazed at the result I got - I fiddled and played with the technique - posted a lengthy post in Fuji Talk of my workflow thinking I had stumbled on some magic trick and someone responded - oh that old thing, that's a contrast mask. So much for my new invention.

A contrast mask is good for significantly lightening a very dark image and improving detail, the down side is that it can introduce a lot of noise and so I tend to use it on a full size image - even for quick and dirty web publishing - then de-noise using Neat Image, then continue the rest of my work.

To create a contrast mask (I use PSP, I assume PhotoShop and others have similarly named tools) duplicate the image layer, set the layer property to dodge - then make that image a negative, then apply gaussian blur - fiddle with the settings to see what works - I used 10 I think in this example - at this point it will look horrible - something like a sketch of the image in negative colours. But the magic happens when you reduce the opacity of the top/dupliate layer - the image beneath re-appears and blends with it. At this point you can adjust colour balance, saturation etc. in respect of your newly lightened image.

In this example, I also cloned the bits of nut skin from the outside of the glass and the tummy of the bluetit and cloned and smoothed the debris and dirt from the glass. On smooth areas like this, on subtle flaws, I like to lassoo the dodgy area with a feathered freehand selection and apply gaussian blur - it often gives quicker and smoother results than other techniques, but it doesn't work on texture etc.

Another of my own favoured techniques for lightening localised areas of shadow or dark was arrived at after discussion on Fuji Talk of digital variants of combining multiple exposures from a highly contrasting scene to get an average and imprived exposure. Duplicate the image on two layers, by whatever your preferred method is and lighten the lower one so that the localised area of darkness/shadow is how you want it - you then eliminate that section of the upper image to allow the lightened area to show through just where it's needed - then merge the layers back to one. One way for a very quick result is to simply erase the top image and make a hole in it to show the layer underneath, which in simple shapes etc. might be good enough - but perhaps not good enough for many scenarious. My personal favourite however is to use masks to give you more control.

I duplicate the layers and adjust the lower one as described, then make a mask on the top one and paint the area I want to remove on the mask. By using a mask you can adjust the transparency, soften the edges etc. and you are in complete control before you even touch your image - if you don't like the results, just delete the mask and start again. What the mask does is to make the top layer transparent in the area of the mask (when you delete the mask to the layer) and allow the lower lighter one to show through. On the mask you can control the amount of this transparency and I tend to gaussian blur it to soften the edges too. I used this around the eye and black neck feathers to extract detail.

This is the finished result - not ideal, but a useable shot if you can't reshoot with the right settings:



--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live music tutorial
 
JackdawFool wrote:
A large part of what you originally posted and
have continued to post has an effect on many of us much like the
sickening feeling one would get having overheard a KKK member
discussing his opinions on people with dark skin.
This is one of the most sickening comparisons I've read on these forums. People like you should be banned from these fora. You are not any better than the KKK, just in another direction. You totally lost your credibility solely by this argument.
Enough said.

--



Regards,
Tom

http://clik.to/tomcee
Canon 300D FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fom-serve/cache/3.html
 
thanks for the link and actually posting something valuable to this thread. as of late the original topic of this thread has been taken on a rollercoaster ride.

thanks again ...

--DT
For anyone thats interested, after reading this thread I went to
Amazon to order this book. There is a Photoshop CS version of the
book available for preordering.

here is a link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735714118/qid=1070629046/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1015345-9769619?v=glance&s=books

Great tip trinity
--
taking life one frame at a time...
 
I am not able to see your photos.
I'd be very happy to, it's already been done (whether I now
remember exactly how I did it is another matter), but the photo is
not mine to post. If the OP is happy for me to post his image, I'd
be happy to oblige and explain how I did it
I suspect That DigitalTrinity might not want his photo reproducing
by me, in view that my offer to post an alternative has been
rejected several times already, so this is a photo I took yesterday
when setting up my camera and tripod in my office to see how
efficient the new remote switch I've made might prove for shots of
birds on my feeder, some of which are too timid for me to catch
when holding the camera. I was just setting up and testing it was
working and hadn't decided on flash arrangements and took this shot
to see if there was any lag etc. - I trashed the rest of the tests,
but the tongue poking out amused me as being a tad different and
worth looking more at. This is a small copy the orginal shot:



There are several techniques I use for lightening underexposed
shots, often in combination - this shot was heavily underexposed
and WB was wrong etc. Often applying a technique to solve one
problem creates others and separate techniques are required in
tandem to produce a decent end result - this was one such shot.

One of my favoured techniques is to use curves - it's an incredibly
powerful tool for adjusting images - but this can also kill
saturation and detail on dark images - so only good for modest
changes - although duplicating the image and making the blend mode
'soft light' can give the image a boost (at about 30 or 40%
transparency - 100% will be way too hrash). I also like to use
what I now know is a contrast mask. I was working on an image some
months ago and not paying attention and clicked automatically on
some settings and got the wrong ones and was amazed at the result I
got - I fiddled and played with the technique - posted a lengthy
post in Fuji Talk of my workflow thinking I had stumbled on some
magic trick and someone responded - oh that old thing, that's a
contrast mask. So much for my new invention.

A contrast mask is good for significantly lightening a very dark
image and improving detail, the down side is that it can introduce
a lot of noise and so I tend to use it on a full size image - even
for quick and dirty web publishing - then de-noise using Neat
Image, then continue the rest of my work.

To create a contrast mask (I use PSP, I assume PhotoShop and others
have similarly named tools) duplicate the image layer, set the
layer property to dodge - then make that image a negative, then
apply gaussian blur - fiddle with the settings to see what works -
I used 10 I think in this example - at this point it will look
horrible - something like a sketch of the image in negative
colours. But the magic happens when you reduce the opacity of the
top/dupliate layer - the image beneath re-appears and blends with
it. At this point you can adjust colour balance, saturation etc.
in respect of your newly lightened image.

In this example, I also cloned the bits of nut skin from the
outside of the glass and the tummy of the bluetit and cloned and
smoothed the debris and dirt from the glass. On smooth areas like
this, on subtle flaws, I like to lassoo the dodgy area with a
feathered freehand selection and apply gaussian blur - it often
gives quicker and smoother results than other techniques, but it
doesn't work on texture etc.

Another of my own favoured techniques for lightening localised
areas of shadow or dark was arrived at after discussion on Fuji
Talk of digital variants of combining multiple exposures from a
highly contrasting scene to get an average and imprived exposure.
Duplicate the image on two layers, by whatever your preferred
method is and lighten the lower one so that the localised area of
darkness/shadow is how you want it - you then eliminate that
section of the upper image to allow the lightened area to show
through just where it's needed - then merge the layers back to one.
One way for a very quick result is to simply erase the top image
and make a hole in it to show the layer underneath, which in simple
shapes etc. might be good enough - but perhaps not good enough for
many scenarious. My personal favourite however is to use masks to
give you more control.

I duplicate the layers and adjust the lower one as described, then
make a mask on the top one and paint the area I want to remove on
the mask. By using a mask you can adjust the transparency, soften
the edges etc. and you are in complete control before you even
touch your image - if you don't like the results, just delete the
mask and start again. What the mask does is to make the top layer
transparent in the area of the mask (when you delete the mask to
the layer) and allow the lower lighter one to show through. On the
mask you can control the amount of this transparency and I tend to
gaussian blur it to soften the edges too. I used this around the
eye and black neck feathers to extract detail.

This is the finished result - not ideal, but a useable shot if you
can't reshoot with the right settings:



--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live
music tutorial
 
This is one of the most sickening comparisons I've read on these
forums. People like you should be banned from these fora.
That's great - You would have me banned for expressing my sincere feelings on the supression of free idea and free speech. So be it. I am sorry that I am not able to seperate the sickening feeling I experience when hearing someone discuss their hatred of my skin color from the sickening feeling I experience when someone wants to put a chain on my and others free thoughts. I do not envy that you are capable of doing so, but to each his own.

Please note that I raised the above point in direct response to Boo's question as to why what she said had offended me so greatly. I stand by every word of it and hope that it will provide some insight into how important such matters are to me.
You totally lost your credibility solely by this argument.
Credibility? What have I said that is untrue? And what was I arguing?
Enough said.
Agreed. If you would, however, like to continue this discussion please do so by email as this has strayed so far from the topic at hand and is seriously in danger of violating the terms of use: [email protected]

-JF
 
I have not said that the OP should not post a recommendation for
the book or the ideas from it, or that he should be sued for doing
so - I have said several times that he probably wouldn't have
grounds as the excerpt would probably qualify as 'acceptable use'.
What I have said - repeatedly - is that justifying publishing
someone else's work with phrases like ...
I still think you are missing the point, Boo. He did not PUBLISH anyone else's work. "Acceptable use" does NOT apply. No EXCERPT was ever posted. He is free to post and share anything from the book he read. In case you misunderstood what was posted, the OP was in DigitalTrinity's OWN words and was merely him sharing ideas read in a book. I once read in a math book that if I added 2 and 2 together, I got 4. Because the sharing of ideas is a fundamental human right, I am free to tack up signs all around town that state 2+2=4 for all to see, without having to worry about treading upon the author's rights.
the OP has to respect
the possibility that whilst the author may well be delighted at the
recommendations for his commercially available published work being
made public in this manner, the poster has to respect the
possibility
that he might not be and would be quite within his
rights to object.
If the author wanted to keep his -ideas- secret (which are what DigitalTrinity shared), he could have made a simple choice: do not write a book and sell it off to whoever wants to buy it. That is the limit of his rights to object in this case. This is precisely, again, all that I was trying to point out. (Of course creativity does not happen in a vacuum, and most if not all ideas in the book would very likely eventually be discovered by others, if they have not been already.)

What scares me is that you do not understand the reasons WHY this must be so, and instead only see the importance of supressing speech because of your believed violations of an author's commercial rights.
Mr Kelby may very
well be over the moon at the posting, but it shouldn't be assumed
that he will be, he has the right not to be.
Of course, but he has no right to expect that ideas he documented in a book can not be shared among the masses as they see fit.
You sir, just went too far. That was offensive on so many levels.
I too just lost respect for your argument.
Groan...... As I told Tom below: I am sorry that I am not able to separate the sickening feeling I experience when hearing someone discuss their hatred of my skin color from the sickening feeling I experience when someone wants to put a chain on my and others free thoughts. I do not envy that you are capable of doing so, but to each his own.
I'm advocating that the female subject of a private picture (as
opposed to one posed for known publication) gives permission to be
published and to be treated in public with due respect and that the
author of a book from which extracts are published, should also be
shown professional respect and courtesy and his rights considered.
How does that make my views comparable with those expressed by the
KKK?
Again, a strawman argument that I have no interest in attempting to defend.

This discussion is no longer productive, has strayed so far from the topic at hand, and is in danger of being deleted due to the terms of use. If you would like to continue, please email me at: [email protected]. I will be more than willing to discuss things further with you there.

-JF
 
I am not able to see your photos.
I'm not sure if that means your circumstances at present don't allow the viewing of photos, or they are failing to load for you.

In case it's the latter, I've uploaded them elsewhere as well. I can see them both in my original post and your quote of it. And I can see both in the preview of this post, they're being supplied here from a totally different host about 3000 miles away from the first! Hopefully you can see one of the sets.

Before:



and after:



--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live music tutorial
 
Thanks, the second host works (the first still doesn't). The second picture definitely looks better then the first. I'll try to read and digest your post.

One question though - I know how to make adjustment layers in Adobe Elements 2.0, but It's not clear to me how to make masks. Anyone ?
I am not able to see your photos.
I'm not sure if that means your circumstances at present don't
allow the viewing of photos, or they are failing to load for you.

In case it's the latter, I've uploaded them elsewhere as well. I
can see them both in my original post and your quote of it. And I
can see both in the preview of this post, they're being supplied
here from a totally different host about 3000 miles away from the
first! Hopefully you can see one of the sets.

Before:



and after:



--
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music photos
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html - available light live
music tutorial
 
For people in the UK this book is available on the 31st of January.

I have been out and bought the Photoshop 7 version of the book on Trinity's original posting, and I paid £30.99 from my local Waterstones bookshop as opposed to £25 on amazon as I also like to keep my local shops in business. (and more to the point, I wanted it yesterday type yearnings took hold of me)

Thanks VERY much and the book has proved invaluable so far, even if so far I have just used it for making portraits of the people I live with look nicer!

Thanks Again Trinity

Dave
For anyone thats interested, after reading this thread I went to
Amazon to order this book. There is a Photoshop CS version of the
book available for preordering.

here is a link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735714118/qid=1070629046/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1015345-9769619?v=glance&s=books

Great tip trinity
 
here is a link
I'd be curious what this book offers that other serious books don't.

Here's a serious Elements book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriting/

here's a serious Photoshop book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwriting/

Is all that is interesting 'easy' no matter what the consequences to the image? Don't you want to get more?

--
Richard Lynch
[email protected]
http://hiddenelements.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriting/
 
here is a link
I'd be curious what this book offers that other serious books don't.
You bloody cheeky bugger, I've only just noticed that you are plugging your own books.

The name I believe is 'pimping', and it tends to be frowned upon when you promote your own material, the idea is to get other people to say how good it is on it's own merits, a bit like Kelby has managed.

Plus you have more bad reviews on Amazon than good ones. (insert in "so there" type voice).

Fair enough you have your own books, and therefore are possibly more able to comment than those of us with skill levels below authors of PS guides, but plugging your own books in that way is a bit underhand.
 
wow.... hes been on this thread the whole time and i didnt even put the two together.... hot diggidy ....

that is kinda shameless LOL... but its cool though .... i guess hes counting on the fact that people may not recognize his name just yet.

Im interested in his stance on the usage of his tips in an online forum such as this along with credit to his book.

--D-Trinity
here is a link
I'd be curious what this book offers that other serious books don't.
You bloody cheeky bugger, I've only just noticed that you are
plugging your own books.

The name I believe is 'pimping', and it tends to be frowned upon
when you promote your own material, the idea is to get other people
to say how good it is on it's own merits, a bit like Kelby has
managed.

Plus you have more bad reviews on Amazon than good ones. (insert in
"so there" type voice).

Fair enough you have your own books, and therefore are possibly
more able to comment than those of us with skill levels below
authors of PS guides, but plugging your own books in that way is a
bit underhand.
--
taking life one frame at a time...
 

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