Camera aesthetics

And I will respectfully disagree. The rangefinder mechanism and focusing is unique, and gives the M almost all of its character. As well as this is a learned art, focusing with a rangefinder. A completely different way of making an image that, with practice, is more like playing an instrument than any other method of photography. It has been around for decades and decades.

They should have just made the Q interchangeable, instead of castrating the Leica M heritage and design. They have plenty of other EVF cameras already, why destroy the M design.... Makes no sense to me at all.


Maybe the changed it because it was dying and the writing was on the wall!!?

Maybe all the feedback said to modern init or else as well as their research backed it up. Modernize or die!

WHY spend so much money on an outdated camera?

I spent the first 25 years of my photographic life manually focusing. I shot sports, I was pretty dang fast and accurate! I've never been an early adopter. I went kicking and screaming into AF. Then I went kicking and scramming into ML but I would NEVER go back! I would change companies if my camera went retro operation!!! Range finder mechanisms are not character, they're ancient tech!!!

John
 
I emailed Leica about the hideous EV1 and haven't yet got a response. Such a slap of disrespect on one of the most important camera designs in history- the Leica M. I let them know just how I feel about it.

If they don't reply it will just bolster my impression that camera companies no longer care what we have to say. Individually they don't need to care about my money, but on a much larger scale, they will care about it.

Hopefully the EV1 is one and done like Hasselblad's Lunar phase.
I can't afford Leica prices and I really don't like rangefinder cameras but, putting that aside, I completely disagree with you about the EV1. It has an elegant simplicity about it that few other digital cameras can match. I think Oskar Barnack would approve. Unfortunately, being left eye dominant I'd struggle to use it, even if it wasn't too small, but otherwise I'd be tempted to buy one.
And I will respectfully disagree. The rangefinder mechanism and focusing is unique, and gives the M almost all of its character. As well as this is a learned art, focusing with a rangefinder. A completely different way of making an image that, with practice, is more like playing an instrument than any other method of photography. It has been around for decades and decades.
The accuracy of focus of a rangefinder camera is dependent upon the length of the base, the distance between the mirrors. A longer base results in greater accuracy. The Olympus XA was a range finder camera with a short base and a 35mm lens, any inaccuracies being covered by the depth of field available from the short lens.

The Leica M series cameras have a somewhat longer base than the XA, about twice as long, but that still means that the inevitable inaccuracies need to be covered by suitable depth of field.

There is another problem with rangefinder cameras, parallax error, caused by the viewfinder axis being slightly remote from the lens axis. By using an EVF Leica has overcome both the inherent inaccuracies of the short base range finder and parallax error. Two problems that were, for film, largely solved by the SLR camera. The rangefinder camera has been obsolescent for many years.
They should have just made the Q interchangeable, instead of castrating the Leica M heritage and design. They have plenty of other EVF cameras already, why destroy the M design.... Makes no sense to me at all.
Leica has recognised the need to update the M series and is to be applauded. I'm sorry that you feel let down but Leica needs to sell its products.
 
I can't afford Leica prices and I really don't like rangefinder cameras but, putting that aside, I completely disagree with you about the EV1. It has an elegant simplicity about it that few other digital cameras can match. I think Oskar Barnack would approve. Unfortunately, being left eye dominant I'd struggle to use it, even if it wasn't too small, but otherwise I'd be tempted to buy one.
And I will respectfully disagree. The rangefinder mechanism and focusing is unique, and gives the M almost all of its character.
'Character'? Everyone else dropped the rangefinder system as soon as it became apparent that SLRs were better. Leica's real strength was in its lenses, and the short flange distance, which offered superior image quality to most other 35mm film systems. So some photographers stuck with Leica because of that. Remember, Leica also did their own (not so successful) SLRs, to try and recoup some the lost ground. By the AF era, Leica were pretty much done as a serious brand, and popular only really with nostalgists and hipsters.


As well as this is a learned art, focusing with a rangefinder. A completely different way of making an image that, with practice, is more like playing an instrument than any other method of photography. It has been around for decades and decades.
That just sounds so pretentious. A camera is a tool. It needs to do a job, and do it well. It needs to work for its user. SLRs are easier to use; having to learn how to focus accurately with a rangefinder detracts from actual picture taking. It's slow, cumbersome and relatively inaccurate. It's not a 'learned art', it's a hindrance.

They should have just made the Q interchangeable, instead of castrating the Leica M heritage and design. They have plenty of other EVF cameras already, why destroy the M design.... Makes no sense to me at all.
They've improved it. A further improvement would be to include AF.

I went to see a photo exhibition the other day; a series of photos by a 'Leica Ambassador', who used M-system rangefinders (film and digital). Aside from the repetitive and contrived nature of the images, what struck us was how often the critical focus was off. People's eyes just weren't in sharp focus. Things like that. It was clear the photographer had struggled to achieve sharp focus in numerous images. A shame really. Had he used a proper camera with AF, his pictures might have been better.
 
I can't afford Leica prices and I really don't like rangefinder cameras but, putting that aside, I completely disagree with you about the EV1. It has an elegant simplicity about it that few other digital cameras can match. I think Oskar Barnack would approve. Unfortunately, being left eye dominant I'd struggle to use it, even if it wasn't too small, but otherwise I'd be tempted to buy one.
And I will respectfully disagree. The rangefinder mechanism and focusing is unique, and gives the M almost all of its character.
'Character'? Everyone else dropped the rangefinder system as soon as it became apparent that SLRs were better. Leica's real strength was in its lenses, and the short flange distance, which offered superior image quality to most other 35mm film systems. So some photographers stuck with Leica because of that. Remember, Leica also did their own (not so successful) SLRs, to try and recoup some the lost ground. By the AF era, Leica were pretty much done as a serious brand, and popular only really with nostalgists and hipsters.
As well as this is a learned art, focusing with a rangefinder. A completely different way of making an image that, with practice, is more like playing an instrument than any other method of photography. It has been around for decades and decades.
That just sounds so pretentious. A camera is a tool. It needs to do a job, and do it well. It needs to work for its user. SLRs are easier to use; having to learn how to focus accurately with a rangefinder detracts from actual picture taking. It's slow, cumbersome and relatively inaccurate. It's not a 'learned art', it's a hindrance.
They should have just made the Q interchangeable, instead of castrating the Leica M heritage and design. They have plenty of other EVF cameras already, why destroy the M design.... Makes no sense to me at all.
They've improved it. A further improvement would be to include AF.

I went to see a photo exhibition the other day; a series of photos by a 'Leica Ambassador', who used M-system rangefinders (film and digital). Aside from the repetitive and contrived nature of the images, what struck us was how often the critical focus was off. People's eyes just weren't in sharp focus. Things like that. It was clear the photographer had struggled to achieve sharp focus in numerous images. A shame really. Had he used a proper camera with AF, his pictures might have been better.
See that's the rub, there's a heck a lot more to a great photograph than pin sharp AF.

No need for me to keep replying, we respectfully disagree on almost all points. Thanks for reaching out however.
 
I went to see a photo exhibition the other day; a series of photos by a 'Leica Ambassador', who used M-system rangefinders (film and digital). Aside from the repetitive and contrived nature of the images, what struck us was how often the critical focus was off. People's eyes just weren't in sharp focus. Things like that. It was clear the photographer had struggled to achieve sharp focus in numerous images. A shame really. Had he used a proper camera with AF, his pictures might have been better.
See that's the rub, there's a heck a lot more to a great photograph than pin sharp AF.

No need for me to keep replying, we respectfully disagree on almost all points. Thanks for reaching out however.
If you're doing a portrait, the convention is to focus on the eyes. This wasn't so much deliberately flouting that convention, as just not getting the focus point on the eyes. As in, a failure of focussing. Caused most likely by using an antiquated, outdated and inferior focussing system. Had he used an SLR or camera with AF, he'd have got better focus I'm sure.
 
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This is always an interesting subject and can be very polarizing. On one extreme are those that think appearance is number one and on the other end functionality and ergonomics are most important. My personal view leans towards the latter for cameras I use to take photos but I also appreciate cameras for their aesthetics, and the best have both qualities. I had a Leica M3 for a few year after I had gone digital, so I never even put a roll of film through it, but it was a delight to hold and operate. It also has an elegant, purposeful look. I started this hobby in the mid 70’s and most cameras back then had blocky geometric shapes but still looked beautifully functional. The Nikon F and the oddly shaped photomic finders, the Pentax Spotmatic, the Minolta SRT series, etc., all had subtle design features that set them apart. Then there were the oddly appealing ones like the Zeiss Ikon Contarex “bullseye”, all models of Alpa, or various twin lens reflexes. One of my favorite cameras to use is my little Nikon V1, as it has the vague shape and size of the pre M Leicas and fits in my large hands surprisingly well. The opposite extreme is my D500 which is nothing like the V1 but also fits my hand like a glove and most controls are right where I need them.
 
This is always an interesting subject and can be very polarizing. On one extreme are those that think appearance is number one and on the other end functionality and ergonomics are most important. My personal view leans towards the latter for cameras I use to take photos but I also appreciate cameras for their aesthetics, and the best have both qualities. I had a Leica M3 for a few year after I had gone digital, so I never even put a roll of film through it, but it was a delight to hold and operate. It also has an elegant, purposeful look. I started this hobby in the mid 70’s and most cameras back then had blocky geometric shapes but still looked beautifully functional. The Nikon F and the oddly shaped photomic finders, the Pentax Spotmatic, the Minolta SRT series, etc., all had subtle design features that set them apart. Then there were the oddly appealing ones like the Zeiss Ikon Contarex “bullseye”, all models of Alpa, or various twin lens reflexes. One of my favorite cameras to use is my little Nikon V1, as it has the vague shape and size of the pre M Leicas and fits in my large hands surprisingly well. The opposite extreme is my D500 which is nothing like the V1 but also fits my hand like a glove and most controls are right where I need them.
Love the D500. Have two of them. It never lets me down, literally. Just got back from my daily 2 mile morning walk and nature shoot. If there's a opportunity, it won't get missed because of the camera. Splendid ergos and comfort. Quite possibly the best multi-purpose camera ever made, certainly the best APS-C camera. NO way I would replace it with any mirrorless APS-C cameras.

And, I also like the way it looks.
 
3Percent a écrit :
Paul Pasco a écrit :

C'est toujours un sujet intéressant et souvent clivant. D'un côté, il y a ceux qui privilégient l'apparence, et de l'autre, la fonctionnalité et l'ergonomie. Personnellement, je penche pour la seconde option concernant les appareils que j'utilise pour la photographie, mais j'apprécie aussi leur esthétique, et les meilleurs allient ces deux qualités. J'ai possédé un Leica M3 pendant quelques années après mon passage au numérique ; je n'y ai donc jamais utilisé de pellicule, mais c'était un vrai plaisir de le tenir et de l'utiliser. Son allure est élégante et fonctionnelle. J'ai commencé ce loisir au milieu des années 70, et la plupart des appareils de l'époque avaient des formes géométriques anguleuses, mais restaient d'une fonctionnalité remarquable. Le Nikon F et ses viseurs photomiques aux formes originales, le Pentax Spotmatic, la série Minolta SRT, etc., possédaient tous des détails subtils qui les distinguaient. Il y avait aussi des appareils au charme particulier, comme le Zeiss Ikon Contarex « œil-de-bœuf », tous les modèles d'Alpa, ou encore divers reflex bi-objectifs. L'un de mes appareils photo préférés est mon petit Nikon V1 ; sa forme et sa taille rappellent vaguement celles des Leica d'avant la série M, et il tient étonnamment bien dans mes grandes mains. À l'opposé, mon D500, qui n'a rien à voir avec le V1, épouse parfaitement la forme de ma main et dont les commandes sont idéalement placées.
J'adore mon D500. J'en ai deux. Il ne me fait jamais défaut, littéralement. Je reviens tout juste de ma promenade matinale quotidienne de 3 km, ponctuée de photos de nature. Grâce à cet appareil, je ne rate aucune occasion de prendre des photos. Son ergonomie et son confort sont exceptionnels. C'est sans doute le meilleur appareil photo polyvalent jamais conçu, et assurément le meilleur appareil APS-C. Je ne le remplacerais pour rien au monde par un appareil photo hybride APS-C.
Et j'aime aussi son design.
I completely agree with you.
And everything suits him perfectly. 😉



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This is always an interesting subject and can be very polarizing. On one extreme are those that think appearance is number one and on the other end functionality and ergonomics are most important. My personal view leans towards the latter for cameras I use to take photos but I also appreciate cameras for their aesthetics, and the best have both qualities. I had a Leica M3 for a few year after I had gone digital, so I never even put a roll of film through it, but it was a delight to hold and operate. It also has an elegant, purposeful look. I started this hobby in the mid 70’s and most cameras back then had blocky geometric shapes but still looked beautifully functional. The Nikon F and the oddly shaped photomic finders, the Pentax Spotmatic, the Minolta SRT series, etc., all had subtle design features that set them apart. Then there were the oddly appealing ones like the Zeiss Ikon Contarex “bullseye”, all models of Alpa, or various twin lens reflexes. One of my favorite cameras to use is my little Nikon V1, as it has the vague shape and size of the pre M Leicas and fits in my large hands surprisingly well. The opposite extreme is my D500 which is nothing like the V1 but also fits my hand like a glove and most controls are right where I need them.
Love the D500. Have two of them. It never lets me down, literally. Just got back from my daily 2 mile morning walk and nature shoot. If there's a opportunity, it won't get missed because of the camera. Splendid ergos and comfort. Quite possibly the best multi-purpose camera ever made, certainly the best APS-C camera. NO way I would replace it with any mirrorless APS-C cameras.
And, I also like the way it looks.
You will therefore probably understand why I like the D500's big brother, the D5, but find the Z9 somewhat lacking.
 
This is always an interesting subject and can be very polarizing. On one extreme are those that think appearance is number one and on the other end functionality and ergonomics are most important. My personal view leans towards the latter for cameras I use to take photos but I also appreciate cameras for their aesthetics, and the best have both qualities. I had a Leica M3 for a few year after I had gone digital, so I never even put a roll of film through it, but it was a delight to hold and operate. It also has an elegant, purposeful look. I started this hobby in the mid 70’s and most cameras back then had blocky geometric shapes but still looked beautifully functional. The Nikon F and the oddly shaped photomic finders, the Pentax Spotmatic, the Minolta SRT series, etc., all had subtle design features that set them apart. Then there were the oddly appealing ones like the Zeiss Ikon Contarex “bullseye”, all models of Alpa, or various twin lens reflexes. One of my favorite cameras to use is my little Nikon V1, as it has the vague shape and size of the pre M Leicas and fits in my large hands surprisingly well. The opposite extreme is my D500 which is nothing like the V1 but also fits my hand like a glove and most controls are right where I need them.
Love the D500. Have two of them. It never lets me down, literally. Just got back from my daily 2 mile morning walk and nature shoot. If there's a opportunity, it won't get missed because of the camera. Splendid ergos and comfort. Quite possibly the best multi-purpose camera ever made, certainly the best APS-C camera. NO way I would replace it with any mirrorless APS-C cameras.
And, I also like the way it looks.
You will therefore probably understand why I like the D500's big brother, the D5, but find the Z9 somewhat lacking.
Yep, also had the D5. Great camera, all the D# camera's are great.

D3s is my personal favorite (heart decision, not logical/mind decision), owned them all. If the D5 or D6 had the DR of the D500, I'd still have the D5 around. D5 is the best high ISO performing camera I've used yet. D500 punches way above it's weight here though.
 
The last time cameras were ever cool...



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It might just be me but does anyone else look at current cameras and wonder where the inspiration of the designer/s went?
I buy a camera as a tool to use, not as a piece of art to look at.

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Tom
 
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I hope you have another way of thinking about your photos! 🤔
 
I hope you have another way of thinking about your photos! 🤔
There is no relationship between what a camera looks like and the results I get from that camera. For example, I don't care what my hammer looks like as long as it does a good job at pounding in nails.
 
It might just be me but does anyone else look at current cameras and wonder where the inspiration of the designer/s went?
I buy a camera as a tool to use, not as a piece of art to look at.
As I have said previously, aesthetics frequently goes with ergonomics. A camera that looks and feels like a brick isn't going to be comfortable to use. There's an old adage in aviation "if it looksright it probably is right". I think that can also apply to cameras.
 
I hope you have another way of thinking about your photos! 🤔
There is no relationship between what a camera looks like and the results I get from that camera. For example, I don't care what my hammer looks like as long as it does a good job at pounding in nails.
If your hammer had a square metal shaft you'd soon realise that, good though it might be at pounding in nails, it was ruinous to your hands.
 
It might just be me but does anyone else look at current cameras and wonder where the inspiration of the designer/s went?
I buy a camera as a tool to use, not as a piece of art to look at.
As I have said previously, aesthetics frequently goes with ergonomics.
No it doesn't. In fact it's not uncommon to sacrifice ergonomics to make a product look better. If an aesthetically pleasing design is also good ergonomically it's because ergonomics in the design came first and the aesthetics had to fit within the restraints of the aesthetics.
A camera that looks and feels like a brick isn't going to be comfortable to use.
That may or may not be true but many people like the way bricks look because that's pretty much the way old film cameras looked.
There's an old adage in aviation "if it looksright it probably is right". I think that can also apply to cameras.
I disagree. "Looking right" is not the same as being aesthetically pleasing. Looking right to me means all controls are placed logically and easy to access. I have seen many cameras criticized by people on this very website for being ugly despite being ergonomically efficient.
 
I hope you have another way of thinking about your photos! 🤔
There is no relationship between what a camera looks like and the results I get from that camera. For example, I don't care what my hammer looks like as long as it does a good job at pounding in nails.
If your hammer had a square metal shaft you'd soon realize that, good though it might be at pounding in nails, it was ruinous to your hands.
Are you claiming that it's not possible to make a hammer functional, comfortable and ugly at the same time? Maybe a hammer wasn't the best analogy but it still should get the point across. Regardless nothing you can say will change my mind that for me the looks of a camera does not matter one bit as long as it's a good photographic tool. I will never reject a camera because I don't like the way it looks. If you want to reject what could be the best camera because it doesn't look good that's your business.
 
I hope you have another way of thinking about your photos! 🤔
There is no relationship between what a camera looks like and the results I get from that camera. For example, I don't care what my hammer looks like as long as it does a good job at pounding in nails.
If your hammer had a square metal shaft you'd soon realize that, good though it might be at pounding in nails, it was ruinous to your hands.
Are you claiming that it's not possible to make a hammer functional, comfortable and ugly at the same time?
GeoffRG didn't say it was ugly...might be a beautiful square handle...but will eventually not really be comfortable for all day use. Might be a similar case for some camera designs. For me, many of the retro camera designs are uncomfortable to hold for long sessions though they look good to some
 

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