Spiratone Mirror-Ultratel 500mm f/4

ProfHankD

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I don't buy many old lenses anymore, but when I do, they're now usually the oddball ones that tend to be somewhat rare and expensive. This is one of those. In fact, it is the most expensive used lens I've bought, costing me the unpleasant total of $371. So, was it worth that?

The lens in question is Spiratone Mirror-Ultratel 500mm f/4. OK, I have to admit that I have an irrational fondness for Spiratone dating back to when I used to frequent their store on Northern Boulevard in Queens, NY. And we're talking about a 500mm f/4. That's two stops faster than your average 500mm... Well, here it is next to my Minolta 500mm f/8 AF Reflex:

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I think the size difference between these two 500mm mirror lenses is pretty obvious. The weight difference is just as large. I really appreciate the shiny metal handle on top of the Spiratone; it is the right way to carry the rig.

Both of those lenses are set-up for autofocus on my Sonys. The Minolta lens is on an LA-EA5 which makes it focus with near native performance on my A7RV and A7CR. The Spiratone is mounted on a TechArt LM-EA7 -- I mean the LM-EA7 and my A7CR are mounted on the Spiratone. That's slightly more complex because the Spiratone uses a T mount, and I don't have a T-to-M adapter, so it is actually on a stack of T-to-M42, M42-to-FD, FD-to-M, and LM-EA7. It's also complicated in that the LM-EA7 doesn't have enough movement range to focus the Spiratone, but it can tweak manual focus to be perfect by moving the camera body and also provides lens data (which I had incorrectly set at 300mm when I did my first tests). Of course, the Spiratone is really intended to be manual focus, and I tried it that way too on a T-to-FE adapter.

Unlike most mirror lenses, this Spiratone's manual focus mechanism is in the rear. The focus adjustment is entirely implemented by adjusting the refractive optics at the rear of the lens, and there are two metal rods sticking out from the small focus ring to make it easier to turn. This arrangement sounds odd, but works much better than trying to turn a giant-diameter lens barrel. The only annoyance is that there is also a rotating T mount with a little locking thumbscrew, and sometimes my fingers bump into the thumbscrew when turning the focus ring using the rods. Then again, the rotating T mount means it is easy to rotationally align your camera with the lens on a tripod in either the horizontal or vertical orientation, which is a really nice feature. Close focus is still tens of feet away, but extension tubes or a teleconverter can get you a tighter image.

There is a tripod mount on the lens that balances the weight extremely well. After all, none of the big parts of the lens actually move when focusing, so there is no shift in balance. The tripod mount accepts either standard screw size. I had no problems screwing in a standard arca-compatible mount and using that with a tripod felt pleasantly secure.

Overall, I have to say that this lens is shockingly hand-holdable. Yeah, you'll quickly build your upper body strength carrying it around by the handle, but supporting the lens with your left hand while focusing and shooting with the right is quite effective. With the LM-EA7, I can even set the approximate focus and then just use my right hand to press the shutter button and trigger autofocus -- with the LM-EA7 moving the body a mm or two to tweak focus. As long as I don't ever support the lens by the body or hold the body such that it can't freely move relative to the lens, my A7CR is way below the LM-EA7 motor drive weight limits even though the lens certainly isn't. Then again, only a lunatic would think it OK to support a lens this massive by the body mount.

Enough chat! What do images look like? Well, here are a few quickies shot using it with my A7CR. These are all shot at f/4 and scaled down from 60MP HIF to 1500x1000 JPEGs. Note that the lens comes with a cover that doubles as an f/5.6 Waterhouse Stop, but I didn't try that yet.

Manual focus on the arrow sign, shot through trees
Manual focus on the arrow sign, shot through trees

Manual focus on the red leaves
Manual focus on the red leaves

Manual focus on the branches
Manual focus on the branches



This one was shot using the LM-EA7 to autofocus on the red leaves, which worked well
This one was shot using the LM-EA7 to autofocus on the red leaves, which worked well

Those are very boring shots, but what I see is surprisingly good color, very thin DoF, and more donuts than one should ever really want. ;-) Seriously, it is an out-of-focus look that people tend to either love or hate, and I wouldn't want it in too many photos. That said, the donut bokeh are soft enough that I don't find them as distracting as from some other mirror lenses. Also note that even a little out of focus starts making sizeable donuts.

Finally, I shot a very crude resolution test of a brick wall. Here's a 1500x1000 crop from near the bottom right corner:



Autofocus brick wall shot, 1:1 crop near bottom right corner
Autofocus brick wall shot, 1:1 crop near bottom right corner

It was pretty obvious that the detail was good when precisely focused with the subject in the center, but this brick image shows the lens is still reasonably good near the corners. The catch is that focus is beyond supercritical; there is almost no depth of field, so even slight misalignment of the focus plane with the subject can cause areas to be significantly blurry.

I haven't yet done formal MTF tests (hard to use this with a test chart!). My initial feeling is that contrast is slightly low, but good for a mirror lens. Resolution is not far behind the Minolta 500mm f/8 AF Reflex, which is a very positive statement given I'm talking about hand-held use of a giant lens needing very precise focus. Resolution of this lens isn't really challenging 60MP FF, but I'd say it is better than needed for 24MP FF to look crisp. I would not be surprised if this lens would still deliver enough resolution for 24MP while using it with a 1.4X or 2X teleconverter, and a 700mm f/5.6 or 1000mm f/8 sounds worth trying.

So, was this worth $371? Yes in terms of lens quality. No in terms of how often I'll bother using a lens that is this big and heavy. It is a very special-purpose tool. I have found myself often using the Minolta instead of my excellent Tamron 150-500mm f/5-6.7 native FE lens just because it is easier to carry. This Spiratone is on the wrong side of that usability comparison at almost twice the weight of my Tamron. Anyway, hopefully I'll at least make some nice fall foliage photos with it in the coming weeks... ;-)
 
Thanks for sharing - very interesting!

I've never tried a mirror-lens but this one certainly seems like it would be a very fun one to shoot with. I think mirror lenses with those specs are usually significantly more expensive than what you've paid for... don't know about that particular one but I think you made a good deal. Looking forward to some more sample shots!
 
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I have what I'm fairly sure is the same lens, with a Sigma name badge. Resolution and contrast , by mirror lens standards, is acceptable, actually, more than acceptable. As well, vignetting, a common feature of mirror lenses, seems not to be present.
 
Wow, you weren't kidding about the weight - that puppy weighs 3.2kg!

I thought my longer f1.9 Kalee lenses were heavyweights, but they are just around 2kg.

Very jealous of that spiffy folding handle, I wish my boat anchors had similar.

3.2kg seems a lot for a conventional mirror lens, they are usually mirrors and air with a small amount of glass, is this a "solid" design like the 600mm and 800mm Vivitar Solid Cats?
 
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I have what I'm fairly sure is the same lens, with a Sigma name badge. Resolution and contrast , by mirror lens standards, is acceptable, actually, more than acceptable. As well, vignetting, a common feature of mirror lenses, seems not to be present.
Yup, this Spiratone is basically the Sigma. Spiratone and Sigma had a very close relationship in those days. In fact, I believe the current head of Sigma spent some time at the Spiratone store working with Fred Spira...

I agree that IQ is more than acceptable. In fact, I'd guess it is about as good as any mirror lens from that vintage. Some newer ones are notably better, but most aren't. That's probably something CK could better comment on. I also agree about the vignetting. The only hint of vignetting I'm seeing is a couple of rectangular-ish slightly darker bands at the top left and right of the images. I figure that's due to some aspect of my wacky layering of adapters.

One more note: flare resistance is actually better than I expected too. That's not saying it is good: pointing it anywhere near the Sun washes out completely. However, the lens front is actually recessed a fair bit, and sidelight and small points aren't much of a problem. In other words, I think the Sun flare is at least partly just shooting through the giant out-of-focus donut of the Sun. Not really like any other flare I've seen...
 
I had never heard of this lens. Thank-you for the excellent post. Keep us posted as you begin to use the lens. Now I'll have to go and research it further!

P.S. A Canon FD 400mm f4.5, possibly for less money, would have been the more effective choice. But a 500/4, I can't deny the attraction. Have fun with it!

Seems like you got a good deal too!
 
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I had never heard of this lens. Thank-you for the excellent post. Keep us posted as you begin to use the lens. Now I'll have to go and research it further!
The Sigma-branded version is more common. It also seems to have (sometimes?) come with an extension tube and 2X teleconverter although mine has neither.
P.S. A Canon FD 400mm f4.5, possibly for less money, would have been the more effective choice. But a 500/4, I can't deny the attraction. Have fun with it!
I now have five 500mm lenses and one zoom that hits 500mm:
  • Kimunor 500mm f/8: long but light refractor, IQ is just OK due to CA
  • Minolta AF Reflex 500mm f/8: the only truly autofocus mirror lens, small, very good IQ
  • Tamron 150-500mm f/5-6.7 Di III VC VXD Model A057: just fits in camera bag, great IQ
  • Bower (Samyang) 500mm f/6.3 DX: the standard modern cheap+fast option, chunky but lightweight, good IQ
  • RE Auto-Topcor 500mm f/5.6: long and heavy refractor, great IQ
  • Spiratone (Sigma) Mirror-Ultratel 500mm f/4: chunky and heavy, good IQ
The LM-EA7 works pretty well with both the Samyang and Sigma mirrors, but only tweaking manual focus, not doing full autofocus. The Minolta full autofocus is pretty impressive on an LA-EA5.
Seems like you got a good deal too!
The price I paid is good for the lens in some abstract sense (e.g., as a collectible, perhaps?). Unfortunately, the value to me as a user is probably $50 below what I paid because it is heavy enough to not get carried to many places and is really compelling only in that it is an f/4 mirror lens. In fairness, my Tamron did cost 3X as much as this.

In sum, the real bargain 500mm is the Samyang. I've seen those used for under $50...
 
I guess with the Waterhouse stop you might not really need a ND filter as the final indignity after reconciling to the weight :)
 
This is exactly the first version of Sigma Ultratel 500/4. I could not find my longer post here, but here is a brief one. Its tripod mount is very small that cannot stay in place firmly. The second version is better. However, none of the two versions gives good results perhaps due to sample variations. If the two versions in my collections are both no good, the probability of bad quality is very likely.

Sigma also made 500/8 using the same or similar optical design, the Bouwer design similar to the East and West 500mm and 1000mm versions. Unfortunately, the Sigma 500/8 is also not good. Of the early Japanese mirror lenses, only the Nikon 500/5 can be said to be reasonable.

Unlike Tamron, none of the early Sigma lenses can be said to be of good image quality, the 135/1.8 (or 2.0) included.

CK
 
Try to find the corresponding lens hood which also acts like a front mounting aperture.

CK
 
Thanks for chiming in, CK.
Try to find the corresponding lens hood which also acts like a front mounting aperture.

CK
Mine came with that and the case, all in excellent condition. Do you think I paid too much at $371 including tax and shipping? Mine did not even include a T adapter: the seller thought it was M42 mount. It also lacked a 2X teleconverter and extension tube, but I doubt those would be much different from things I already have. I don't know if Spiratone included them like Sigma did; I haven't been able to find any Spiratone mention of this lens. Given what I suspect it cost new, it is a pretty odd thing for Spiratone to have marketed, and they might have omitted them to lower cost.

I have no complaints at all about the tripod mount, which is small but plenty solid. I didn't even use the larger thread on it; I just screwed an Arca plate into it with the usual 1/4-20, and it seems quite stable on my decent tripods. Admittedly, I was pointing it roughly horizontally, so I benefited from it being well-balanced.

From your comments (and the other review someone posted at PentaxForums ), I assume my copy is firmly on the happy side of sample variation. I'm starting to wonder if it might have been "cherry picked" as a sample for Spiratone and never really marketed by them. Sigma was very tight with Spiratone in the 1970s.

Overall, IQ doesn't seem bad, but it certainly isn't among the best 500mm mirror lenses. It is easily the most touchy commercially-produced lens I own in terms of criticality of focus -- even touchier than my Meade 1250mm f/13.8. 500mm f/4 means very thin DoF, and mirror donut bokeh means a little defocus dramatically lowers MTF contrast or even gives double lines. I can nail manual focus, but have to use peaking fully magnified. It is much more practical to use the LM-EA7 to automatically tweak manual focus, and that really does work even hand-held. Actually, the biggest issue with hand-held is that precise framing is difficult because the weight quickly causes fatigue; my A7CR IBIS handles the shake within an exposure, but not while taking seconds to compose.
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience with the Spiratone 500/4!
my Meade 1250mm f/13.8
Would that be the ETX-90? It certainly impresses with eyepieces, and is fairly competent as a taking lens in my experience.

Back to the Spiratone; would you also happen to have a for-astro 0.5X focal reducer to try behind your Spiratone for educational purposes? :-)
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience with the Spiratone 500/4!
my Meade 1250mm f/13.8
Would that be the ETX-90? It certainly impresses with eyepieces, and is fairly competent as a taking lens in my experience.
Mine is a DTX-90 with a simple computer-controlled mount. Same as an ETX-90. Honestly, it's quite good on APS-C, but vignettes on FF. Also hand-holdable as a lens, with a pretty nice focus knob. One annoyance is that 1250mm isn't a valid IBIS setting on Sonys, so anti-shake is only giving about 2.3EV benefit with it set at 1000mm.
Back to the Spiratone; would you also happen to have a for-astro 0.5X focal reducer to try behind your Spiratone for educational purposes? :-)
I do have a 0.5X focal reducer, but it would be a pain to use with it. I just did a quick try with one of my FF to APS-C focal reducers, and I get an image circle that barely covers APS-C. I don't think this lens has any coverage circle to spare.
 
The Spiratone Mirror-Ultratel 500mm f/4 doesn't focus close by itself, but I figured that it might be interesting to use a focusing extension tube to bring it closer -- to around 6 feet. After all, that long working distance shouldn't scare any little critters and f/4 donuts might make for some interesting backgrounds. My Samyang 500mm f/6.3 mirror lens performs well in the macro range using extension tubes, so maybe this one will too?

Here's what my scary rig for this looked like:

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Yeah, that rig is every bit as awkward as it looks. However, it did autofocus tweaking of manual focus using the TechArt LM-EA7 fairly effectively. I still haven't reprogrammed that adapter, so it still thinks it has a 300mm lens on it and IBIS is wrong...

Anyway, it was too cold out for bugs, but there were still some flowers left in the garden. I shot these all using that rig handheld:

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The gray backgrounds are correct; that's the color the dried-out plants have. So, overall, the colors aren't far off and the bokeh is slightly interesting...

However, overall this is a total failure!

Mirror lenses are known for lack of aberrations, and this one does deliver on that promise. However, resolution at close distances is lousy. My guess is that the unusual focus mechanism might have something to do with that, or perhaps it is just a matter of the rear refractive elements not expecting long extension tubes.

Anyway, whereas the regular distance performance is a slightly above average B, this type of close focus is C- at best due to poor resolution (and very low contrast). So, kids, don't bother trying this at home...
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience with the Spiratone 500/4!
my Meade 1250mm f/13.8
Would that be the ETX-90? It certainly impresses with eyepieces, and is fairly competent as a taking lens in my experience.
I believe the C5 1250mm 1:10 older version and completely calibrated is better to much better than any Meade. Meade's quality is deteriorating in recent years. Although this also happens to Celestrone, but not that bad. The newer Celestron C6 1:10 is even better.
Back to the Spiratone; would you also happen to have a for-astro 0.5X focal reducer to try behind your Spiratone for educational purposes? :-)
I would never want to mount a focal reducer to any telescope. I tried some years ago with a 0.5X on my C8 and C10 and was not satisfied. I hope to get a C14, but I rarely got good nights here in the upper Michigan. Moreover, mosquitos has always been nb issue. So, a few years ago I settled with a C6 for photography. Maybe a C6 HD Edge or a C9 HD Edge would be my choice some time later, but a C6 on a APS-C body is sufficient for cutting the non-HD Edge for photography.

CK
 
Thanks for chiming in, CK.
Try to find the corresponding lens hood which also acts like a front mounting aperture.

CK
Mine came with that and the case, all in excellent condition. Do you think I paid too much at $371 including tax and shipping? Mine did not even include a T adapter: the seller thought it was M42 mount. It also lacked a 2X teleconverter and extension tube, but I doubt those would be much different from things I already have. I don't know if Spiratone included them like Sigma did; I haven't been able to find any Spiratone mention of this lens. Given what I suspect it cost new, it is a pretty odd thing for Spiratone to have marketed, and they might have omitted them to lower cost.
I believe $371 is really a good price and glade you got one. The 2nd version is more expensive. I have the 2X teleconverter and have never used it because adding a 2X to a not really great lens would make the quality worse.
I have no complaints at all about the tripod mount, which is small but plenty solid. I didn't even use the larger thread on it; I just screwed an Arca plate into it with the usual 1/4-20, and it seems quite stable on my decent tripods. Admittedly, I was pointing it roughly horizontally, so I benefited from it being well-balanced.
The small tripod makes the lens difficult to be firmly mounted on a Gimbal. Sigma knew that and improved it for the 2nd version. The quality of the small screws is not good and could become rotten. Then, the small tripod mount could suddenly loose. I almost drop my 1st version to the ground because of a rotten screw. Anyway, be careful about this.
From your comments (and the other review someone posted at PentaxForums ), I assume my copy is firmly on the happy side of sample variation. I'm starting to wonder if it might have been "cherry picked" as a sample for Spiratone and never really marketed by them. Sigma was very tight with Spiratone in the 1970s.
I would believe you are lucky rather than Spiraton cheery picked some Sigma lenses. When is a lens is being made and the mark has been fixed unless Aspiration did the pick later.
Overall, IQ doesn't seem bad, but it certainly isn't among the best 500mm mirror lenses. It is easily the most touchy commercially-produced lens I own in terms of criticality of focus -- even touchier than my Meade 1250mm f/13.8. 500mm f/4 means very thin DoF, and mirror donut bokeh means a little defocus dramatically lowers MTF contrast or even gives double lines. I can nail manual focus, but have to use peaking fully magnified. It is much more practical to use the LM-EA7 to automatically tweak manual focus, and that really does work even hand-held. Actually, the biggest issue with hand-held is that precise framing is difficult because the weight quickly causes fatigue; my A7CR IBIS handles the shake within an exposure, but not while taking seconds to compose.
I always use magnification because this is the only way to get a long focal length lens focused properly. Peaking does help, but it must be followed by magnification. I always used a 5" to 7" external monitor for focusing. If you really are into this large aperture mirror lenses hobby, wait until you can find a reasonably priced Nikon 500mm 1:5. It is lighter, sharper and less sample variation issues.

I found that the Yashica ML 500mm 1:8 is really good and just very slightly behind a Contax Mirotar 500mm 1:8. However, some people suggested that I am lucky to get a good copy, perhaps just like you have a good Sigma 500/4.

CK
 
Thanks for the backgrounding by the experts that have volunteered to buy one of these crazies and have uploaded their experiences - much appreciated.

You have convinced me quite conclusively that I don't really need one ..... :)
 
You have convinced me quite conclusively that I don't really need one ..... :)
Unfortunately, I am having the same realization myself. ;-)

For example, I was just shooting in the Daniel Boone National Forest, and brought both my Tamron 150-500mm f/5-6.7 Di III VC VXD and the Spiratone Mirror-Ultratel 500mm f/4. Neither lens is a lot of fun to carry around, but I could cram the Tamron into my usual bag. The Spiratone traveled in the black box-bag it came with, which is a not particularly classy carrying case and has a disturbingly thin strap. I shot both lenses handheld using my A7CR, using manual focus for the Spiratone.

Here's an example of what the Spiratone gave me:

Spiratone 500mm @ f/4
Spiratone 500mm @ f/4

That's not terrible, but it is only crisp for a tiny fraction of the scene. Even at this distance, DoF for a pixel-peeping 60MP FF CoC seems to be on the order of ten feet. That's less than one would predict for a 500mm f/4, but the donuts made by mirror lenses have dark centers that enhance the amount of apparent defocus. The defocus is pretty strong. There might also be a touch of motion blur, because I was relying entirely on IBIS to correct for camera shake and the Spiratone is pretty hard to hold steady. Interestingly, I shot in "A" mode and didn't notice at the time that it selected just 1/160s and ISO 100.

Here's what the Tamron does with the same scene:

Tamron @ 500mm f/7.1 (wide open would be f/6.7, so this is nearly wide open)
Tamron @ 500mm f/7.1 (wide open would be f/6.7, so this is nearly wide open)

Although the usual math would suggest the DoF would only be about twice what you get at f/4, the DoF is much larger and the whole rock outcrop looks fairly crisp. The Tamron has OIS that is combined with the IBIS to give notably better stabilization, and there is no hint of blur from camera motion.

At some level, I have to admit that the extra defocus from the Spiratone makes the image look a tad more lively and "film-like." There are circumstances where that's a good reason to deal with this lens. However, using the two lenses side-by-side, it was immediately apparent just how awkward the Spiratone is -- and I probably should have also dragged a tripod out to maximize IQ, which wasn't necessary for the Tamron.

In sum, although this Spiratone does have merit, I can't imagine I'll bother with it very often. In that sense, it reminds me of my RE, Auto-Topcor 500mm f/5.6. The Topcor is an excellent lens with quite good IQ except for heavy bokeh CA, but it weighs 4.6 pounds and is quite long, delivering only a touch less DoF than the Tamron, so it tends to just sit at home. In truth, this Tamron and my Minolta 500mm f/8 AF Reflex are the only 500mm lenses I regularly use... I'm still not sorry I bought this truly rare Spiratone, or the Topcon (which is believed to be one of just 360 made).
 
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I have the same issue with the EF 400/2.8L MkI that I have had for years, but in this case it is not lack of image making quality but the sheer 5.5kg of weight to move it anywhere.

I even successful adapted it to use with M4/3 as well as the "normal" dslr aps-c from time to time.

I used it on a gimbal head tripod years ago for close ups of live theatre. Wonderful lens, wonderful images - but the digital camera industry moved on and even M4/3 kit with much smaller first class native mount lenses, and a viewing public that cannot see the nuances, why might I torture myself by carting around heavy kit?

To re-phrase an old saw: "in the land of the mobile phone camera the person with any large lens whatsoever is king". Otherwise known as: "Let's humour this sucker who is desperate to show off his expensive new kit ....."

Sadly the 400/2.8 stays at home in its case now that I am older, even if not that much wiser :)
 

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