Panasonic letdown!

mmartel said:

UsherFellig said:

But it is a fact that in this subforum and the photo gear world at large, speculation abounds that Panasonic is abandoning m43. That speculation is fueled by silence on the Panasonic front, not "hijacking" by Olympus users. I didn't make this happen. It is a fact that has nothing to do with me or with Olympus users here who discuss their gear and their enjoyment of it. If people aren't buzzing here about Panasonic m43, that isn't because anyone using Olympus is suppressing them, let alone "hijacking" anything.

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That's a lot of words to look me in the eye and tell me the GH7 and GH9ii mean nothing and don't exist.

And if those don't exist, the updated G97 and G100D don't exist either.

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Lol, the same applies to OP. I mentioned similar upthread a while back, got crickets.

I looked up his comment history to see his perspective on the Panasonic cameras that have been released, just as you say, the above cameras might as well don't exist in his view:

"Ever since Panasonic decided to stop selling small MFT cameras their presence on this forum has seriously declined. They will not attract new buyers & will eventually drop MFT & hope that FF will replace MFT. This is a big gamble!

PS- the G97 is not small....."

https://www.dpreview.com/members/1412815774

Basically the format is dead as long as they don't make the small cameras he wants. I've seen pretty much the exact same claim applied to OM, except it's talking about a PEN-F successor. Heck, I've seen that even when Olympus was still running the show (threads about how cameras like the E-M1 II was the wrong direction). If OM listened to those people, they wouldn't have had the success of the OM-1.

JakeJY said:

mmartel said:

UsherFellig said:

But it is a fact that in this subforum and the photo gear world at large, speculation abounds that Panasonic is abandoning m43. That speculation is fueled by silence on the Panasonic front, not "hijacking" by Olympus users. I didn't make this happen. It is a fact that has nothing to do with me or with Olympus users here who discuss their gear and their enjoyment of it. If people aren't buzzing here about Panasonic m43, that isn't because anyone using Olympus is suppressing them, let alone "hijacking" anything.

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That's a lot of words to look me in the eye and tell me the GH7 and GH9ii mean nothing and don't exist.

And if those don't exist, the updated G97 and G100D don't exist either.

Click to expand...

Lol, the same applies to OP. I mentioned similar upthread a while back, got crickets.

I looked up his comment history to see his perspective on the Panasonic cameras that have been released, just as you say, the above cameras might as well don't exist in his view:

"Ever since Panasonic decided to stop selling small MFT cameras their presence on this forum has seriously declined. They will not attract new buyers & will eventually drop MFT & hope that FF will replace MFT. This is a big gamble!

PS- the G97 is not small....."

https://www.dpreview.com/members/1412815774

Basically the format is dead as long as they don't make the small cameras he wants. I've seen pretty much the exact same claim applied to OM, except it's talking about a PEN-F successor. Heck, I've seen that even when Olympus was still running the show (threads about how cameras like the E-M1 II was the wrong direction). If OM listened to those people, they wouldn't have had the success of the OM-1.

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OP and Usher conflate, "Panasonic/OMDS/m43 is dead to me" (since they don't make the camera I want) with "Panasonic/OMDS/m43 is dead."

Maybe they're right ... in the long run. Maybe. Time will tell.

But it's just a hilariously absurd opinion to broadcast as fact here in the short run while O and P are still pumping out m43 products, no matter how recycled/incrental some products may be (as if other OEMs never pull from the parts bin or release minor updates).

This forum has the best comedy/drama act on the Internet as far as I'm concerned.

--
"Gentlemen, it has been a privilege playing with you tonight." - Titanic musician before their final song

Tom Caldwell said:

James Stirling said:

Tom Caldwell said:

C Sean said:

Keit ll said:

The much-advertised Lumix updates turn out to be a special edition of the FF S9 & an App update.

Why doesn't Panasonic come clean & say that they are abandoning MFT ( 'MICRO' FT ) so that potential new buyers can look elsewhere & not buy into a dead system?

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I did post a link to Robin Wong's video and for an hour he did discuss the worsening position of OM System. Of course die hards will not discuss his points:

In a nutshell.

• OM System market share is shrinking year by year.
• Nikon, Sony and Canon autofocusing system is better than OM System.
• Full Frame give pros more megapixels and gives everyone low light shooting.
• OM System maybe going down the wrong path by aiming at bird photographers.
• OM system isn't making a profit!

Now if you factor in Lumix position. There are more OM/Olympus posters here than Lumix. If we head to Lumix reddit page there are a lot more post from Full Frame owners than M43.

One former Lumix ambassador said about the then release of the G9ii. It's for the people who had too many M43 lenses and haven't moved to Full Frame.

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With friends like these and threads like these I wonder what those manufacturers are supposed to do ....

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Obviously a new GM5 and GX8 update anything else is just daft

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Yes I think that there is a vacant consultancy position or three on the Panasonic staff for a few daft old sods like you and I .....

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Do you think a nicely worded two man petition could seal the deal

Tom Caldwell said:

However bad-news posts continue to proliferate - this cannot be good for the mount system and those that might take their advice seriously from some of the negativity on this forum.

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I have drifted back to nearly all Panasonic , the OM-1 great camera just that its feature set is way beyond what I need . Lenses like the 40-150mm F/2/8 again no problems with the performance I just seldom use it.

I updated my 12-35mm and 35-100mm to the latest PL and 12-35mm F/2.8 , PL 35-100mm F/2.8 versions . Will keep the 20mm F/1.7 , 15mm F/1.7 ( though it does not get a lot of use either ) and the Olympus 60mm macro I use a lot. The GX8 does most of what I need and I have a spare just in case. I would be delighted with a real RF style GX8 upgrade but hopes are not high :-( . So i am nearly a Panny boy again

James Stirling said:

I am already on a 100 ignore lists best not make things worse

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I'm not far behind but this thread has given me the biggest haul yet. It's half grey now

JakeJY said:

mmartel said:

UsherFellig said:

But it is a fact that in this subforum and the photo gear world at large, speculation abounds that Panasonic is abandoning m43. That speculation is fueled by silence on the Panasonic front, not "hijacking" by Olympus users. I didn't make this happen. It is a fact that has nothing to do with me or with Olympus users here who discuss their gear and their enjoyment of it. If people aren't buzzing here about Panasonic m43, that isn't because anyone using Olympus is suppressing them, let alone "hijacking" anything.

Click to expand...

That's a lot of words to look me in the eye and tell me the GH7 and GH9ii mean nothing and don't exist.

And if those don't exist, the updated G97 and G100D don't exist either.

Click to expand...

Lol, the same applies to OP. I mentioned similar upthread a while back, got crickets.

I looked up his comment history to see his perspective on the Panasonic cameras that have been released, just as you say, the above cameras might as well don't exist in his view:

"Ever since Panasonic decided to stop selling small MFT cameras their presence on this forum has seriously declined. They will not attract new buyers & will eventually drop MFT & hope that FF will replace MFT. This is a big gamble!

PS- the G97 is not small....."

https://www.dpreview.com/members/1412815774

Basically the format is dead as long as they don't make the small cameras he wants. I've seen pretty much the exact same claim applied to OM, except it's talking about a PEN-F successor. Heck, I've seen that even when Olympus was still running the show (threads about how cameras like the E-M1 II was the wrong direction). If OM listened to those people, they wouldn't have had the success of the OM-1.c;-)

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I will be happy to be proved wrong in my assessment & only time will tell ;-)

My concern is that new buyers do not have a sufficient choice in small MFT cameras. Increasingly other makers are offering a wider choice.

The much-touted G100 variants do not have IBIS & this is deterrent to many potential buyers. We are told that IBIS is unnecessary, but in that case, why do other Panasonic MFT's offer it?

mmartel said:

Jens_ac said:

mmartel said:

Jens_ac said:

mmartel said:

Jens_ac said:

mmartel said:

Jens_ac said:

ikolbyi said:

Jens_ac said:

Yannis1976 said:

Jens_ac said:

unhappymeal said:

Keit ll said:

You are right in pointing out that this thread has ceased to be about Panasonic failures, focusing on Fuji & Nikon offerings.

Sadly, this is further evidence that Panasonic is losing existing & potential buyers :-(

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It's been hijacked by the usual Olympus posters who have main character syndrome. Come over to the L-mount forum. It's way more chill. People are happy to discuss Panasonic, Sigma and Leica without any chips on their shoulders.

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I do not use any L-mount gear yet.

Olympus left this business, thus it must be something else: To much doom in the air. MFT-Titanic touched the Smartphone-Berg, captain Olympus left and the rest of the crew does not work together well - OM System doing nearly nothing while LUMIX and Blackmagic doing better together on the other ship. Meanwhile some marketeers stear up the situation here.

Yes, one should leave. L-mount is an option but there might be better alternatives (Canon, Sony, Nikon). I am going to rethink my future needs.

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For me the alternatives are Fuji and Sony FF and everything has worked great.

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I need hybride and thus I think Canon has the edge today, second place shared by Nikon, Sony and L-mount - each with pros and cons and changing everyday (last change: the nice new Sony macro). Fuji can not film.

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No tool is perfect. No manufacture is perfect. What works for one person may not satisfy another.

for example: I find the S1R.2 AF acceptable for sports photography (as a sports photographer) but I had fellow photographers say it is way to slow for there needs.
-this is personal preference, therefore no right or wrong answer.

The problem with OM System is aside of the OM-3, all products releases under their name are actually Olympus innovations, not OM. And if we look at OM innovation the OM-3, it is nothing more than a parts canon from Olympus, so they only innovated the body style, not the technology.

Regarding LUMIX, I actually agree with their approach having the 3 current cameras and as they are designed. In many ways they have brought innovations to MFT that did not exist prior. First and foremost, we have 25mp quality sensor not to mention video specs CaNikony only dream about.

LUMIX is in a stronger position than OM, that’s why we tend to talk about OM more.

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I am so tired to see talk about OM System. I like the lenses and I like the Olympus name but I do not see that they do anything I could need. Thus please do not bother me with all that non-information about OM System. There is no news and there will be no news from OM System. They do nothing but marketing and that is just boring.

The new LUMIX cameras I like, especially the S1ii and in MFT the GH7 - but it has not enough advantage to upgrade from a G9m2 - thus the G9m2 is close to that perfect MFT camera. The Canon R5ii I like for its hybrid quality - 8 k Video RAW is that good. Nikon has potential and Sony, too. The lenses are the more important thing. Maybe I first start to complement MFT with the most needed things (micro and low light) and then I will see. For compatibility with software and SDK reasons that limits my choice to Canon and Nikon. Thus today it should be Canon. I guess...

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Jens, I'm curious what you find attractive about 8k RAW compared to, say, 5.8k RAW open gate which I believe you have in your GH9ii. Do you plan to extract stills from 8k? Or would you use it for cropping into for 4k? Or for oversampling into 4k?

For professional use cases I totally get the draw of 8k (assuming you can keep the camera cool). As a hobbyist, though, it seems like wild overkill and even more massive files for relatively marginal gain over 5.8k open gate on a GH7 or GH9ii or S5ii etc.

Tastes very and one person's good enough is another person's not good enough. Just curious to hear because there are so few videos shooters here on the forums it's interesting to hear from others who do shoot video sometimes.

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I like RAW because it is so much easier to get nice colors with. I prefer the in camera RAW of the R5ii over the recorder needed with the G9m2, because the recorders battery is heavy and nasty and thus most of the time it is not with me. Also all the cables are difficult to use in bad weather or in wild nature.

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Makes sense. I'm less fussy about color personally so I'm not interested in RAW.

mmartel said:

I prefer the 8k because it is open gate 60 FPS

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Got it. I love 60fps so I can see the appeal of that spec.

mmartel said:

while in G9m2 I have 60 FPS only with nasty crop (16:9 or 4.4k). Maybe I could also use the higher resolution, especially for focus stacking and stills I want to crop later.

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Ok, I thought the G9ii had the GH7s 5.8k 60fps open gate raw but it doesn't. Guess a fan is needed to support that kind of processing and the G9ii doesn't have it.

That makes the G9ii slightly less appealing to me personally as a long-term upgrade path as I do like 60fps and also like open gate video (I sometimes use the 6k photo mode open gate video hack on my OG G9 but I am limited to 30fps... The G9ii wouldn't get me to 60fps in open gate).

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Also the GH7 does not have 5.8k 60 but only 16:9 crop 5.7k 60 with the external recorder. With internal RAW it is only 30fps.

I guess it is due to the processor. Cooling helps for longer recording (G9m2 in the sun can do only about 15 min. ProRes 4:2:2 60fps on ssd).

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Oh ! Well that's disappointing, no wonder you're looking at the R5ii.

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And it is even better: The R5ii can do 2k240 FPS and with autofocus including animal eye detection. The LUMIX can do that only with HD and only manual focus. And the R5ii has video pre-capture, thus you do not need to watch hours of slow mo in post. Thus for wild life video the Canon is the way to go. It is a true hybride, much better for video than the GH7.

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Seems you've found your next camera. Good luck and best wishes!

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Yes, I think the R5ii is the perfect hybride camera of the year for me.

Now to something completely different; Do they have anything like the OMSy 90mm in that system? Not found yet. The lenses might tie me to the MFT System and thus I will be forced by OM System to complain about LUMIX bodies for ever . What a plot twist.

As long as we must write here "MFT is dead' hoping in vain a manufacturer would recognise us and serve us one day, the system is actually safe. We can check out any time we like but we can never leave. Now the guitar...

Keit ll said:

JakeJY said:

mmartel said:

UsherFellig said:

But it is a fact that in this subforum and the photo gear world at large, speculation abounds that Panasonic is abandoning m43. That speculation is fueled by silence on the Panasonic front, not "hijacking" by Olympus users. I didn't make this happen. It is a fact that has nothing to do with me or with Olympus users here who discuss their gear and their enjoyment of it. If people aren't buzzing here about Panasonic m43, that isn't because anyone using Olympus is suppressing them, let alone "hijacking" anything.

Click to expand...

That's a lot of words to look me in the eye and tell me the GH7 and GH9ii mean nothing and don't exist.

And if those don't exist, the updated G97 and G100D don't exist either.

Click to expand...

Lol, the same applies to OP. I mentioned similar upthread a while back, got crickets.

I looked up his comment history to see his perspective on the Panasonic cameras that have been released, just as you say, the above cameras might as well don't exist in his view:

"Ever since Panasonic decided to stop selling small MFT cameras their presence on this forum has seriously declined. They will not attract new buyers & will eventually drop MFT & hope that FF will replace MFT. This is a big gamble!

PS- the G97 is not small....."

https://www.dpreview.com/members/1412815774

Basically the format is dead as long as they don't make the small cameras he wants. I've seen pretty much the exact same claim applied to OM, except it's talking about a PEN-F successor. Heck, I've seen that even when Olympus was still running the show (threads about how cameras like the E-M1 II was the wrong direction). If OM listened to those people, they wouldn't have had the success of the OM-1.c;-)

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I will be happy to be proved wrong in my assessment & only time will tell ;-)

My concern is that new buyers do not have a sufficient choice in small MFT cameras. Increasingly other makers are offering a wider choice.

The much-touted G100 variants do not have IBIS & this is deterrent to many potential buyers. We are told that IBIS is unnecessary, but in that case, why do other Panasonic MFT's offer it?

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Panasonic is telling you, me, and the world the following:

1. Their current m43 lineup is roughly optimal for the segments of the market Panasonic believes they can currently profitably serve. This lineup emphasizes newer, bigger bodies like the G9ii and GH7 and long-in-the-tooth but "paid for" G95/G97 and G100/G100D bodies.

2. If you're after a small Lumix camera and the G100 does not suit you - maybe because you need IBIS or weather sealing, Panasonic would rather you move up to a G97 (or get a used G95 or used G85), buy an S9 and go L-mount, or choose a different brand's offering (such as OM5 or used EM5) simply because they don't think they can profitably serve you. Translation: PANASONIC DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO COMPETE DIRECTLY WITH THE OM5/OM5ii AND EM10IV/EP7.

It's possible that a modern, well-equipped hypothetical GX8-size body just can't handle the thermals and battery required to put their new PDAF-equipped 25MP sensor and imaging pipeline in. Maybe such a camera would undercut their G9ii sales in ways that weaken that product's P&L and not capture enough of the OM5/OM5ii market's sales to pay off. Maybe it would siphon off momentum from the S9 and undercut what they're trying to do in L mount.

Who knows for sure?

But the answer if you're desperate for a new, small IBIS-equipped body in m43 is to get an EM10IV (or EP7 if it exists in your market) or OM5. Those cameras don't bite. You may even end up liking them. ;-)

--
"Gentlemen, it has been a privilege playing with you tonight." - Titanic musician before their final song

I don't disagree with anything you say but it still leaves Panasonic with a dearth of new entry buyers & gradually their MFT market sector will dry up.

UsherFellig said:

mmartel said:

UsherFellig said:

unhappymeal said:

Keit ll said:

You are right in pointing out that this thread has ceased to be about Panasonic failures, focusing on Fuji & Nikon offerings.

Sadly, this is further evidence that Panasonic is losing existing & potential buyers :-(

Click to expand...

It's been hijacked by the usual Olympus posters who have main character syndrome. Come over to the L-mount forum. It's way more chill. People are happy to discuss Panasonic, Sigma and Leica without any chips on their shoulders.

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Nothing is being "hijacked." This is a micro-four-thirds forum. One of the two principal m43 brands [clue: The brand name begins with "P"] seems not to be producing new m43 cameras or lenses, to the point that there is speculation in the m43 community and the larger photo gear industry-watcher cohort, that Panasonic may be abandoning m43.

With no sign of m43 activity by one of its main producers, and new cameras and lenses issuing from the other main m43 brand . . . which of the two might one expect to be dominating discussion of their recent new products? In a thread whose topic and focus is disappointment in the m43 brand who is not producing? The fact that Olympus is offering new cameras and lenses is not "main character syndrome." They are the m43 brand that appears to be active at the moment.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following.

Number of new flagship cameras launched since mid-2024:

- P: 1 (GH7)

- O: 1 (OM3)

Number of new flagship cameras launched since mid-2023:

- P: 2 (G9ii, GH7)

- O: 2 (OM1ii, OM3)

OMDS has been busier on the glass front, which I applaud.

O 50-200mn f2.8 looks like excellent glass (if heavy and expensive). Meanwhile Lumix already had the weather sealed (and lighter) PL50-200mm f2.8-4 for its users for years.

Good on O for weather sealing the 17mm and 25mm. It would be nice if Lumix weather sealed the 15mm f1.7 but on the Lumix side we've already had a weather sealed 25mm f1.4 for years.

In some sense, Lumix simply had much less work to do over the last couple years and what you're seeing is O playing catch-up to fill niches, not Lumix lying dead as a doormat.

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But it is a fact that in this subforum and the photo gear world at large, speculation abounds that Panasonic is abandoning m43. That speculation is fueled by silence on the Panasonic front, not "hijacking" by Olympus users. I didn't make this happen. It is a fact that has nothing to do with me or with Olympus users here who discuss their gear and their enjoyment of it. If people aren't buzzing here about Panasonic m43, that isn't because anyone using Olympus is suppressing them, let alone "hijacking" anything.

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I am not sure if you are actually serious or just trolling. Does the PL 9mm f1.7, PL 12-35 f/2.8, PL 100-400 II, G9 II and GH7 signal Panasonic is silent to you?

Keit ll said:

My concern is that new buyers do not have a sufficient choice in small MFT cameras. Increasingly other makers are offering a wider choice.

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As a "new" buyer (in MFT) myself, I agree. A lot of the Panasonic and OM bodies are chunky, and the cost is high. Some of the features of these cameras are impressive, but they aren't meaningful to my use case.

I want something to give me a reason to put my large cameras down and enjoy.

Ultimately, I bought a used EP7 for $550 and a use Oly 12-40/2.8 for $400. It meets all of my needs and has some great features and all said and done, didn't cost much.