Former Canon now Sony Shooter Looking to go Back to Canon

cocoanud said:

RaysJ said:

tbcass said:

cocoanud said:

BlueBomberTurbo said:

How long has it been since you shot Canon? Canon's menus have become quite bloated and unmanageable recently, and even DPR has mentioned this. I have an R50 V and things are just all over the place that should be next to each other. LOTS of interface and custom menu customization required to put things back in line, even to the level Sony is at.

Click to expand...

Have used Sony (a6700, a7r IVa), tried the a7C2 as well and had RX100 VII.

Canon's menu have become bloated ? Not sure how you define bloated. There are more items in the menus but still the best organised menu layout. Definitely better than Sony.

Don't have direct experience of an R50V but Canon's menu system comes close to being intuitive with the way colours, icons and text/font are laid out and arranged. Sony is ... hot mess IMO :-/

Click to expand...

Because you are a Canon user who is used to Canon's menu system you find it intuitive. As a Sony user myself I am used to the Sony system and find it easy to navigate. The fact is there is nothing intuitive about any camera. It's just something you have to learn.

Click to expand...

Maybe Sony has been designed by engineers and not photographers?

Click to expand...

I don't know about Sony but Canon cameras UX/haptics do feel like as if they are designed/approved by product-experts/testers who actually use the cameras

cocoanud said:

l far prefer Canon's simple focussing system, where you can MF at any time, you don't have different settings and press AF all the time just use MF. Then try using enlargement at the same time. You almost need 3 hands for some Sony features.

Click to expand...

When I compared my then R6's focus selection and engagement with Nikon Z6 and Olympus E-M1 II I kept wondering how did Canon manage to get the UX/Haptics right.

There are Engineers in the crowd who are attributing affinity to complexity because they are Engineers and probably that might well be the case.

I am not a pro-photographer but a Software "Engineer". I know that is not a real Engineer and I belong to the crowd of professionals who decided there won't be another year after 1999 (although I am an entire generation younger than that crowd). My day job has me looking at screens and various representations of complexity rendered as terse text all day long most days of the week.

I don't want my escape/hobby/non-work-activity to look and feel like my day job. Canon takes all that out of the picture (pun intended).

Sony and Olympus menu systems are not for me after having experienced Canon and don't have the means to delve into exotic European systems just to try them... and actually don't feel the need to having used Canon.

cocoanud said:

Sony lcd screens are poor, apart from some of latest cameras, such the A7RV. For a company makes TVs it is surprising. The Canon 5DS screen is far better than the A7Rlll, which l find unusable when outside.

Click to expand...

This realisation only happens after having actually used and compared more than one systems. On paper the a7r IVa would have been the perfect setup for me with the G 24-50 f/2.8 ... but I think I was "under-qualified" for it .. the VF and screen somehow worked/felt better on my then R6 II and my current R5 II leaves nothing to be desired... well ... I do complain about Canon's lens lineup not making sense but Canon are changing that and have been upping their game recently.

Click to expand...

Yes many things come to light after changing, some l took for granted. Many are not covered in reviews. Reading reviews you would have thought tge lcd was good.

There is no mention that on my Sony it drops down to 12 bit if you use Bulb, which you have to do if you do over 30 seconds exposures. Canon had far long times for exposures, l would not need 15 hours but up to 5 minutes would be useful. Sony does not even have a timer, l can't remember a camera without this basic feature.

lf you use a IR remote, then on Sony the power save does not function, on Canon, remotes don't affect this feature.

lS on the Sony cameras seems nothing like the claims, l found Canon IS to be fairly close to claims.

Some Sony wide angle lenses have huge distortion, 2 are around 10%, they rely on post correction.

Sony cameras only have one screen, so everything is cluttered onto that, the text is very small. The level is small, difficult to read in some light and not very accurate, on Canon and Nikon the level is obvious.

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

RaysJ said:

sportyaccordy said:

tbcass said:

cocoanud said:

tbcass said:

cocoanud said:

BlueBomberTurbo said:

How long has it been since you shot Canon? Canon's menus have become quite bloated and unmanageable recently, and even DPR has mentioned this. I have an R50 V and things are just all over the place that should be next to each other. LOTS of interface and custom menu customization required to put things back in line, even to the level Sony is at.

Click to expand...

Have used Sony (a6700, a7r IVa), tried the a7C2 as well and had RX100 VII.

Canon's menu have become bloated ? Not sure how you define bloated. There are more items in the menus but still the best organised menu layout. Definitely better than Sony.

Don't have direct experience of an R50V but Canon's menu system comes close to being intuitive with the way colours, icons and text/font are laid out and arranged. Sony is ... hot mess IMO :-/

Click to expand...

Because you are a Canon user who is used to Canon's menu system you find it intuitive. As a Sony user myself I am used to the Sony system and find it easy to navigate. The fact is there is nothing intuitive about any camera.

Click to expand...

I have used cameras from Olympus, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony and Canon. I did end up finding Canon UX intuitive compared to the experience with all the other brands. There are other aspects of Canon UX that make it distinctly better which I can describe if you want.

RaysJ said:

It's just something you have to learn.

Click to expand...

Agree. With Sony I had to expend cognitive capital and focus on learning that system. But even after learning it... it still was a hot mess in my eyes.

Didn't face that issue with Canon. When I first started using Canon (an R6) I had a Nikon Z6 and Olympus E-M1 II at hand and Canon was the intuitive one... add the inclusion of Fv mode moves that bar even higher up. And I can't use a camera without that mode without frustration (that means I won't wilfully choose to pick up Canon's R50 and R100)

YMMV

Click to expand...

Maybe because I'm an engineer but I find Sony menus easy to navigate, especially newer models.

Click to expand...

Same, I feel like you eventually get used to nearly any menu system. I didn't have a problem with the old Sony menus either. Im talking like Sony NEX days.

Click to expand...

I thought that but it is proving difficult on Sony. You can buy a guide book how you use all the settings, it is over 450 pages, think the author gave up after the A7Rlv, as l can't see one for A7RV. There quite a few hidden things. Also conflicting settings, if you set something then you can't use something else, there is no warning, such as using bulb with silent shutter.

Sony are slow, it has taken them 4 or 5 generations, to have basic settings, that were on DSLRs.

Click to expand...

I guess part of it for me is I only focus on the settings I actually use. Trying to learn every function of a camera off the rip seems ambitious.

I usually just set up the custom functions how I want and learn the different focus/shooting modes. Theres def the option to have a dedicated MF/AF button on Sony cameras as well. Thinking about it- and not trying to blame you- I think part of the issue might be how Sony's manuals are written and how easy one finds it to look for info in them. I usually just Google whatever Im looking for which finds stuff easier than trying to dig through the manual.

sportyaccordy said:

RaysJ said:

sportyaccordy said:

tbcass said:

cocoanud said:

tbcass said:

cocoanud said:

BlueBomberTurbo said:

How long has it been since you shot Canon? Canon's menus have become quite bloated and unmanageable recently, and even DPR has mentioned this. I have an R50 V and things are just all over the place that should be next to each other. LOTS of interface and custom menu customization required to put things back in line, even to the level Sony is at.

Click to expand...

Have used Sony (a6700, a7r IVa), tried the a7C2 as well and had RX100 VII.

Canon's menu have become bloated ? Not sure how you define bloated. There are more items in the menus but still the best organised menu layout. Definitely better than Sony.

Don't have direct experience of an R50V but Canon's menu system comes close to being intuitive with the way colours, icons and text/font are laid out and arranged. Sony is ... hot mess IMO :-/

Click to expand...

Because you are a Canon user who is used to Canon's menu system you find it intuitive. As a Sony user myself I am used to the Sony system and find it easy to navigate. The fact is there is nothing intuitive about any camera.

Click to expand...

I have used cameras from Olympus, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony and Canon. I did end up finding Canon UX intuitive compared to the experience with all the other brands. There are other aspects of Canon UX that make it distinctly better which I can describe if you want.

sportyaccordy said:

It's just something you have to learn.

Click to expand...

Agree. With Sony I had to expend cognitive capital and focus on learning that system. But even after learning it... it still was a hot mess in my eyes.

Didn't face that issue with Canon. When I first started using Canon (an R6) I had a Nikon Z6 and Olympus E-M1 II at hand and Canon was the intuitive one... add the inclusion of Fv mode moves that bar even higher up. And I can't use a camera without that mode without frustration (that means I won't wilfully choose to pick up Canon's R50 and R100)

YMMV

Click to expand...

Maybe because I'm an engineer but I find Sony menus easy to navigate, especially newer models.

Click to expand...

Same, I feel like you eventually get used to nearly any menu system. I didn't have a problem with the old Sony menus either. Im talking like Sony NEX days.

Click to expand...

I thought that but it is proving difficult on Sony. You can buy a guide book how you use all the settings, it is over 450 pages, think the author gave up after the A7Rlv, as l can't see one for A7RV. There quite a few hidden things. Also conflicting settings, if you set something then you can't use something else, there is no warning, such as using bulb with silent shutter.

Sony are slow, it has taken them 4 or 5 generations, to have basic settings, that were on DSLRs.

Click to expand...

I guess part of it for me is I only focus on the settings I actually use. Trying to learn every function of a camera off the rip seems ambitious.

I usually just set up the custom functions how I want and learn the different focus/shooting modes. Theres def the option to have a dedicated MF/AF button on Sony cameras as well. Thinking about it- and not trying to blame you- I think part of the issue might be how Sony's manuals are written and how easy one finds it to look for info in them. I usually just Google whatever Im looking for which finds stuff easier than trying to dig through the manual.

Click to expand...

I agree but I'm talking about settings l use. Finding things in the manual or in the menu is difficult and even if you find it you may not know what it means or what it does.

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Google can help. but again too much misinformation is out there, especially on AI.

Cameras trying to appease everyone, have become overly complicated, l see why even some pros are complaining. No wonder why many just use a smartphone.

RaysJ said:

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Click to expand...

That is not true. Part of the complexity of the menu is the different AF settings for different types of photography. As a Sony user I can say with absolute confidence that it is possible to change AF settings on both Sony and 3rd party lenses.

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Click to expand...

That is not true. Part of the complexity of the menu is the different AF settings for different types of photography. As a Sony user I can say with absolute confidence that it is possible to change AF settings on both Sony and 3rd party lenses.

Click to expand...

This was to do with the AF focuses, ie contrast or phase, you can only change on my camera, on some non Sony lenses. Sony use a hybrid system which is automatic, it is not something users can change.

RaysJ said:

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Click to expand...

That is not true. Part of the complexity of the menu is the different AF settings for different types of photography. As a Sony user I can say with absolute confidence that it is possible to change AF settings on both Sony and 3rd party lenses.

Click to expand...

This was to do with the AF focuses, ie contrast or phase, you can only change on my camera, on some non Sony lenses. Sony use a hybrid system which is automatic, it is not something users can change.

Click to expand...

OK although I don't understand why you would restrict to only one or the other.

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Click to expand...

That is not true. Part of the complexity of the menu is the different AF settings for different types of photography. As a Sony user I can say with absolute confidence that it is possible to change AF settings on both Sony and 3rd party lenses.

Click to expand...

This was to do with the AF focuses, ie contrast or phase, you can only change on my camera, on some non Sony lenses. Sony use a hybrid system which is automatic, it is not something users can change.

Click to expand...

OK although I don't understand why you would restrict to only one or the other.

Click to expand...

I was told one may work better.

RaysJ said:

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

tbcass said:

RaysJ said:

l was told to change the AF settings, by some users but then l found out, that was not possible on Sony lenses. Some were blaming the camera or lens but that is not correct, that is how it is supposed to be.

Click to expand...

That is not true. Part of the complexity of the menu is the different AF settings for different types of photography. As a Sony user I can say with absolute confidence that it is possible to change AF settings on both Sony and 3rd party lenses.

Click to expand...

This was to do with the AF focuses, ie contrast or phase, you can only change on my camera, on some non Sony lenses. Sony use a hybrid system which is automatic, it is not something users can change.

Click to expand...

OK although I don't understand why you would restrict to only one or the other.

Click to expand...

I was told one may work better.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with that. Sony cameras use PDAF to achieve initial focus and CDAF to fine tune it if necessary. It's the best of both worlds.

RaysJ said:

...

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. I see the 70-200/4 RF lens is £1,750, ouch, l sold my EF one for about £300. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

50-odd RF lenses and more coming isn't that restrictive, even though there's a lot of duplication with cheap, decent and L versions of a lot of the range. That's not counting the hundreds of EF lenses which work to the best of their abilities on RF mount. Three of my four Canon RF lenses don't have direct equivalents in E, L or Z mount and 28mm lenses in those mounts are a lot bigger than mine. My dumb Chinese RF bayonet lenses are, of course, available in other mounts.

I've not had a single problem with my Canon mount adapter in nearly five years. My Kolari filter adapter crashes the camera if I remove an EF lens while the adapter is mounted on the camera, whether the camera is switched on or off. I should have paid double for the Canon version but I was too tight. Apart from that, the Kolari adapter has never been a problem focussing or taking photos using either EF or TS-E lenses though.

Manual focussing is a joy with Canon RF (less so with the RP body) because of the match-triangles focussing aid, provided the camera has an electronic response from the lens to activate it. I've customised the M-Fn bar of my EOS R and the AF ON button of my R8 to give viewfinder magnification to critically focus dumb lenses.

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

50-odd RF lenses and more coming isn't that restrictive, even though there's a lot of duplication with cheap, decent and L versions of a lot of the range. That's not counting the hundreds of EF lenses which work to the best of their abilities on RF mount. Three of my four Canon RF lenses don't have direct equivalents in E, L or Z mount and 28mm lenses in those mounts are a lot bigger than mine. My dumb Chinese RF bayonet lenses are, of course, available in other mounts.

I've not had a single problem with my Canon mount adapter in nearly five years. My Kolari filter adapter crashes the camera if I remove an EF lens while the adapter is mounted on the camera, whether the camera is switched on or off. I should have paid double for the Canon version but I was too tight. Apart from that, the Kolari adapter has never been a problem focussing or taking photos using either EF or TS-E lenses though.

Manual focussing is a joy with Canon RF (less so with the RP body) because of the match-triangles focussing aid, provided the camera has an electronic response from the lens to activate it. I've customised the M-Fn bar of my EOS R and the AF ON button of my R8 to give viewfinder magnification to critically focus dumb lenses.

Click to expand...

Well hardly any Tamrons, such as 28-200 or 50-300, more coming yes but not much use if you wanted to use them 6 months ago. 50 lenses may sound a lot but there are apparently over 300 Sony e mounts available. The new Canons RF lenses are very expensive, check out the 14-35, 24-105 and 70-200 prices, because these are quite new the used prices are also high.

Old lenses, as l said previously, too heavy.

RaysJ said:

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

Which is true for probably 95% of us.

4thnebula said:

I am currently shooting with a Sony A7RIV. Love the image quality and ability to get 3rd party lenses but still, after 5 years, totally annoyed by the user interface. I keep remembering the ease of use of my Canon R and EF-S Bodies where I could very easily pinch zoom after taking a photo to check it out. Sony has none of that. I am looking to going to a Canon R6 MKIII and Canon R7 MKII as soon as they come out if, if and only if, Canon still has the ease of use I remember.

Would appreciate Canon R, R7 and other FF Canon users if the system is still the same or even better.

Click to expand...

I believe the A7rIV was the last model with the older style Sony "tab" menu display, since then the Sony menu system are very quick and intuitive to navigate, for example the a7rV has the latest menu, an incredible evf, same as a1, and the multi-function rear screen with tilt and vari-angle all at a very high res and with good contrast and brightness. It also has the advantage to offer both 60mp FF and 26mp aps-c, so really unless you want very high speed, >10fps, is a FF/APS-C dual purpose camera.

The R6iii if it does use the C50 sensor is going to be a mixed bag if you want to use e-shutter and pre-capture, in which case you really have to consider the R5ii and forget the new R6iii. If the "probable" 12 fps mechanical shutter is enough, then the increased resolution will surely be welcome by most of its users. I think Sony is pretty much in the same boat, the new A7V will probably use the A7IV sensor, so don't expect that to even come with pre-capture let alone 12fps!

Sadly, we are at a point where all the manufacturers still aren't offering a truly compelling platform, the Canon system is essentially locked, the Sony system allows 3rd party but they are locked to 15fps/no tele-conv. support. Nikon refuse to update the Z7ii, leaving users with either the Z8 or Z9, both very large/heavy for many(me), and in any case Nikon still can't achieve 30fps in raw or pre-capture unless resorting to jpg.

I'm on the fence with my Canon R5ii system, its an incredible camera, I like it a lot and I like its output but the lens options are very limited compared to Sony, especially in size/compactness. The Sony a7cr is also a game-changer and offers something really special for those moments when you don't want/need to lug around an R5ii/a1ii, sure Canon has the R8 but it doesn't have anywhere near the level of resolution or indeed native compact lens options that Sony users now have at their disposal. Surprisingly, the a7cr is also very usable with larger lenses too thanks to a very nifty grip included by Sony or smallrig 3rd party arca plate. All in all, a two body system with a1ii/a7cr when needed is much more compelling than anything Canon or Nikon currently has to offer. In fact Canon/Nikon don't have a competitor to the a7rV/cr.

Finally, if speed and "fast" mid-tele options are not important but compactness and primes are, then Fuji x is also a really good solution, the 40mp aps-c sensor can compete really well against a7iv and as such probably the new R6iii, the X-T5 is probably the most intuitive camera available today and has superb object/subject detection comparable in recognition speed to Sony/Canon imo, it may not nail as many shots, it can miss focus, but its very quick and responsive, despite what you may read on these forums!

Right now, I'm hanging on with the R5ii to see if Canon deliver;

a compact 14-24-24-70 2.8 duo

and a

a 300-600 4-5.6 at a "reasonable" price

The new 1.4 primes are interesting, and overall Canon has got most bases covered and by the end of November we should know for sure what Canon has planned in the short term. My issue is do I convert completely back to Sony or sit on the fence for now, its disappointing for example that Canon doesn't currently have a native RF zoom lens option offering 400 5.6, which is kind of hard to believe and the Canon 70-200 2.8z that takes the t/c is substantially more expensive than the 70-200 2.8 GMII option.

In short, dyor but personally speaking its a very mixed picture still but I seriously do not think the new R6iii or A7v are going to be particularly compelling for various reasons and going from 60mp to 32mp will require a big adjustment for you.

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

50-odd RF lenses and more coming isn't that restrictive, even though there's a lot of duplication with cheap, decent and L versions of a lot of the range. That's not counting the hundreds of EF lenses which work to the best of their abilities on RF mount. Three of my four Canon RF lenses don't have direct equivalents in E, L or Z mount and 28mm lenses in those mounts are a lot bigger than mine. My dumb Chinese RF bayonet lenses are, of course, available in other mounts.

I've not had a single problem with my Canon mount adapter in nearly five years. My Kolari filter adapter crashes the camera if I remove an EF lens while the adapter is mounted on the camera, whether the camera is switched on or off. I should have paid double for the Canon version but I was too tight. Apart from that, the Kolari adapter has never been a problem focussing or taking photos using either EF or TS-E lenses though.

Manual focussing is a joy with Canon RF (less so with the RP body) because of the match-triangles focussing aid, provided the camera has an electronic response from the lens to activate it. I've customised the M-Fn bar of my EOS R and the AF ON button of my R8 to give viewfinder magnification to critically focus dumb lenses.

Click to expand...

Well hardly any Tamrons, such as 28-200 or 50-300, more coming yes but not much use if you wanted to use them 6 months ago. The new Canons RF lenses are very expensive, check out the 14-35, 24-105 and 70-200 prices, because these are quite new the used prices are also high.

Click to expand...

I bought a Tamron lens last week for £5, all I need now is an EF Adaptall mount for it.

There are three RF 24-105mm and three RF 70-200mm lenses. The 24-105mm STM is £479 including 20% tax, the f /4L lens is £1389, the same price as the slightly inferior, bigger and heavier EF version though £90 more than the Panasonic equivalent and £460 more than the Sony G lens, and the f/2.8 version has no competition. I'll grant you that the 70-200mm L lenses are expensive but the EF f/4L is only £100 less expensive than the much smaller RF version.

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

50-odd RF lenses and more coming isn't that restrictive, even though there's a lot of duplication with cheap, decent and L versions of a lot of the range. That's not counting the hundreds of EF lenses which work to the best of their abilities on RF mount. Three of my four Canon RF lenses don't have direct equivalents in E, L or Z mount and 28mm lenses in those mounts are a lot bigger than mine. My dumb Chinese RF bayonet lenses are, of course, available in other mounts.

I've not had a single problem with my Canon mount adapter in nearly five years. My Kolari filter adapter crashes the camera if I remove an EF lens while the adapter is mounted on the camera, whether the camera is switched on or off. I should have paid double for the Canon version but I was too tight. Apart from that, the Kolari adapter has never been a problem focussing or taking photos using either EF or TS-E lenses though.

Manual focussing is a joy with Canon RF (less so with the RP body) because of the match-triangles focussing aid, provided the camera has an electronic response from the lens to activate it. I've customised the M-Fn bar of my EOS R and the AF ON button of my R8 to give viewfinder magnification to critically focus dumb lenses.

Click to expand...

Well hardly any Tamrons, such as 28-200 or 50-300, more coming yes but not much use if you wanted to use them 6 months ago. The new Canons RF lenses are very expensive, check out the 14-35, 24-105 and 70-200 prices, because these are quite new the used prices are also high.

Click to expand...

I bought a Tamron lens last week for £5, all I need now is an EF Adaptall mount for it.

There are three RF 24-105mm and three RF 70-200mm lenses. The 24-105mm STM is £479 including 20% tax, the f /4L lens is £1389, the same price as the slightly inferior, bigger and heavier EF version though £90 more than the Panasonic equivalent and £460 more than the Sony G lens, and the f/2.8 version has no competition. I'll grant you that the 70-200mm L lenses are expensive but the EF f/4L is only £100 less expensive than the much smaller RF version.

Click to expand...

Out of those, l would be only interested in f/4 L lenses. I don't want to pay those sort of prices. If l had stuck with Canon, l would have used my EF lenses, with adaptors. It is still possible l could change back.

No problem with adapters on UWA lenses with ND filters?

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. I see the 70-200/4 RF lens is £1,750, ouch, l sold my EF one for about £300. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

But there is no reason why you can't use the HUNDREDS of EF Lenses on an R ml system. I use a mix of EF and RF lenses on may R system with no ill effects at all.

I personally do not use 3rd party lenses on my Canon so not everybody is waiting with bated breath for cheap 3rd party lenses or boutique focal lengths that can be easily covered by existing Canon lenses! But of course your mileage may be very different!!!

John

JohnSil said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. I see the 70-200/4 RF lens is £1,750, ouch, l sold my EF one for about £300. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

But there is no reason why you can't use the HUNDREDS of EF Lenses on an R ml system. I use a mix of EF and RF lenses on may R system with no ill effects at all.

I personally do not use 3rd party lenses on my Canon so not everybody is waiting with bated breath for cheap 3rd party lenses or boutique focal lengths that can be easily covered by existing Canon lenses! But of course your mileage may be very different!!!

John

Click to expand...

Looking at Canon cameras, what would be the closest to a Sony A7Rlll? The R5 looks close to what l want but is about double the price. Any cheaper 45mp Canons? I'm using a Tamron 50-300 zoom and may buy a Viltrox 14mm and Sigma 90/2.8.

RaysJ said:

JohnSil said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. I see the 70-200/4 RF lens is £1,750, ouch, l sold my EF one for about £300. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

But there is no reason why you can't use the HUNDREDS of EF Lenses on an R ml system. I use a mix of EF and RF lenses on may R system with no ill effects at all.

I personally do not use 3rd party lenses on my Canon so not everybody is waiting with bated breath for cheap 3rd party lenses or boutique focal lengths that can be easily covered by existing Canon lenses! But of course your mileage may be very different!!!

John

Click to expand...

Looking at Canon cameras, what would be the closest to a Sony A7Rlll? The R5 looks close to what l want but is about double the price. Any cheaper 45mp Canons?

Click to expand...

Nope. Canon's higher MP mirrorless bodies (R5 series) are also higher performance bodies as well, so you would have to pay for performance that you may not need.

I Can say however that this performance is incredibly satisfying. :-D

R2

JohnSil said:

RaysJ said:

Sittatunga said:

RaysJ said:

...

l did not go to Canon ML because of the lens issue.

Click to expand...

Please could you expand on that? I was an early adopter but for the first two years I had my EOS R it was used mainly as an EF mount camera except for when I was adapting FD and rangefinder camera lenses to it. My selection of EF lenses performs better on the R than on my DSLR and are easier to use on mirrorless. Manual focus in particular is very much better on mirrorless. I've bought four RF lenses and three EF lenses since I went mirrorless, so I don't see a lens issue at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon has a restricted lens choice, many third party lenses are not available, such as Tamron. So you are left with their decent but costly lenses. I see the 70-200/4 RF lens is £1,750, ouch, l sold my EF one for about £300. Sony probably has the widest choice of ML lenses available. Maybe l should have tried my DSLR lenses with adaptors but that would have only been a partial fix, l wanted to cut down on weight. Also heard quite a few problems with adapters.

Not finding manual focussing on Sony any better, Sony seem to think everyone uses AF now.

Click to expand...

But there is no reason why you can't use the HUNDREDS of EF Lenses on an R ml system. I use a mix of EF and RF lenses on may R system with no ill effects at all.

I personally do not use 3rd party lenses on my Canon so not everybody is waiting with bated breath for cheap 3rd party lenses or boutique focal lengths that can be easily covered by existing Canon lenses! But of course your mileage may be very different!!!

John

Click to expand...

The way I see it, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone spending thousands of dollars on a camera body to not have to make such huge compromises on lens choice.

Yes EF glass works fine on RF bodies, often much better than on the EF bodies they were designed for. But they are generally still older, heavier and just not as good as newer glass. And it's not like the EF lineup didn't have its flaws. The 50 situation was pretty bad. I wanted something light and decent around 50mm. Here was the only option I found for RF vs what I use for FE:





And thats far from the only decent, light and cheap 50ish lens for FE. Nikon and L mount have decent options too. Having to use 10+ year old glass on a "new" system just seems strange and suboptimal.



--
Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/