I have been around Dpreview since it started. We used to have some good discussions and the reviews here were very helpful for many in equipment choice . We also had many respected and very good photographers who made comments that helped those who were not very good or beginners. There comments were always about taking good pictures no matter what equipment you had. Sadly most of these left after comments like ..."we don't". As a professional of over 40 years I will go back to doing what I love. Thanks for the welcome back.....
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New iPhone 17 Pro Max photo
- Thread starter NoGutsNoGlory
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André BARELIER
Forum Pro
Walter, don't be discouraged by those who think they know everything and feel entitled to tell us what we can and cannot talk about here.
We couldn't care less.
Feel free to talk about DxO or whatever photo software or website you like.
Thanks Andre
I was drawn to the OP because I liked the picture and didn’t even think to see if there was any noise! It could have been any phone camera but because I have been enjoying my IPhone 17 pro max I responded.
Back in the days of Phil Askey when he was the oracle I would quote him…
I do appreciate that many like to pixel peep but I feel frustrated when it takes precedence over a good picture. Nano Banana can sort the glitches… soon all photography will be on a smart phones and converted to higher quality than ever before…
Edgar_in_Indy
Senior Member
If a picture isn't good, then image quality doesn't really matter. But if I'm taking a good picture, I would prefer that the image quality is also good. That's why I've upgraded my main camera many times over the years, as have most other people on this site.
I don't see how it's any different when we're talking about cameras built into our cell phones, so I feel like this handwringing over people discussing image quality is a bit melodramatic.
I guess if image quality didn't matter, we could all just stick with the 2MP cameras that the original iPhones had and not have to worry about anything as undignified as "image quality".
aramando
Active member
I thought OP's original photo was pretty good tbh, but this one is sensational to me.Edge detection is getting better but still not perfect and without hardware upgrades never will be. What isn't getting better is the noise, for a £1500+ phone it's unacceptable.
Here is a similar photo taken in comparable surroundings on a like-for-like lens on a phone that cost far less and is nearly 2 years older. No depth estimation errors and no noise.
Truncia
Leading Member
Bravo, you're the first person to finally put an end to the long-running debate about image quality. Much respect!If a picture isn't good, then image quality doesn't really matter. But if I'm taking a good picture, I would prefer that the image quality is also good. That's why I've upgraded my main camera many times over the years, as have most other people on this site.
I don't see how it's any different when we're talking about cameras built into our cell phones, so I feel like this handwringing over people discussing image quality is a bit melodramatic.
I guess if image quality didn't matter, we could all just stick with the 2MP cameras that the original iPhones had and not have to worry about anything as undignified as "image quality".
Sort of works both ways.. of course image quality matters. Being able to take a good photograph just matters more.If a picture isn't good, then image quality doesn't really matter. But if I'm taking a good picture, I would prefer that the image quality is also good. That's why I've upgraded my main camera many times over the years, as have most other people on this site.
I don't see how it's any different when we're talking about cameras built into our cell phones, so I feel like this handwringing over people discussing image quality is a bit melodramatic.
I guess if image quality didn't matter, we could all just stick with the 2MP cameras that the original iPhones had and not have to worry about anything as undignified as "image quality".
If a picture is no good..quality is immaterial. Equally if a picture is really good ( I am thinking historical press photographs that changed the world...Vietnamese girl as an example or have a look at Cartier Bresson ) then do we really need to pixel peep it? Like them or not Apple have come out with their best iPhone camera. It is a delight to use and more people will be taking better pictures with their x4 than most with consumer cameras. If there are better camera phones..telephoto and all .....great!
I am not a big fan of the “here is a picture of my pet” images routinely posted. BUT, I have come to this image again and again and again to study it before I purchase an iphone17PM. It is a really solid image that is telling me a lot.
But, some questions……
was this shot in “standard” mode with the 4x or in some kind of “portrait mode”? Did you use the stock camera app or something else? And what was the image recoded as? Raw, ProRaw, HEIC, jpg?
sorry if this has been asked and answered above but I’m too lazy to look.
thank you VERY much for taking the time to post this image. VERY helpful to me.
But, some questions……
was this shot in “standard” mode with the 4x or in some kind of “portrait mode”? Did you use the stock camera app or something else? And what was the image recoded as? Raw, ProRaw, HEIC, jpg?
sorry if this has been asked and answered above but I’m too lazy to look.
thank you VERY much for taking the time to post this image. VERY helpful to me.
Edgar_in_Indy
Senior Member
The advantage of pictures of pets and people is that you get a better feel for the camera's ability to capture fine and realistic detail and texture of things like skin, hair, eyes, etc.
When taking pictures of inanimate/manmade objects, such as a building, it is often possible for a phone to get away with excess noise reduction, smoothing, and outright texture generation due to the predictable and uniform nature of the subject and materials.
People pictures are great, but it's not always possible to have a cooperative, patient, and unselfconscious (lol) model on hand. And then there are also privacy concerns. So pets make rather ideal test subjects. Wildlife images make for a bit of a torture test to separate the great lenses from the rest, and if you think about it, pets aren't all that different from wildlife, lol.
Why do pet pictures bother you as test pictures?
Yeah, the first shot was made in portrait mode, and then farther down he posted the regular version of the shot, and in that one there is very little background blur/subject isolation, as you would expect from such a tiny sensor with a smallish aperture.
Here's the two shots:
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Djingonthenet
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Are you seriously considering buying the most expensive phone that you can buy based on this image? I'm lost for words :-O
Yes, this image and others. Why?
Edgar_in_Indy
Senior Member
I think his very obvious point is that the image quality from the telephoto is not very good at all. Looks like what you would have gotten from an inexpensive old point and shoot 10 or 15 years ago.
If having a telephoto is an important feature for you, there are many other phones that do it much better. But if you're committed to iPhones, then I guess you don't really have any other options, and you may as well look on the bright side...it does have a telephoto.
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Djingonthenet
Leading Member
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Edgar has hit the nail on the head, it's an average quality photo at best yet you have come back to it time and time again as it is a "solid photo" that is "telling you a lot" - please tell me what you see in this photo that I cannot. My eyes are telling me that if this is a great quality image by Apple standards, then stay well away from Apple - I personally would say it's on par with the Huawei P30 pro telephoto from 2019 (based on this image alone). You obviously see it differently so I would like to understand how you perceive this image to the point where a £1500+ price tag is a worthy outlay.
aramando
Active member
The posted photo could be achieved with an iPhone 17 Pro (because it has the same camera system as the Pro Max), which costs from £1100+. Admittedly DM-CO said they were looking at the the Pro Max, but even that costs "only" £1200+, not £1500+. For reference, the Xiaomi 15 Ultra costs £1300+ (I'm guessing this is in fact the most expensive phone you can buy).
Djingonthenet
Leading Member
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Two versions are available above £1500, 1TB @ £1599 2TB @ £1999 - no Xiaomi ultra phone has cost anything near that amount, the 512gb version of both originally retailed at £1299 for Xiaomi and £1399 for iPhone. On release you also got a substantial "goody bag" with the Xiaomi including a £400 tablet for free and, I think, the camera kit. The camera hardware is several years down the line from anything Apple will release, from cost to lens to sensor to end result it's no competition.
André BARELIER
Forum Pro
Don't buy glasses. I see the same thing you do.
An image that isn't “bad,” but is, let's say, “moderately good.”
That's my point of view.
As for Apple, I think that this company certainly develops high-performance products, but above all, it practices cutting-edge marketing (staging keynotes, leaking information about the features of upcoming models, very high prices to reinforce its high-end image, unnecessarily sophisticated and expensive materials, such as titanium, etc.).
The ergonomics of Apple products have been carefully designed by the company, and their compatibility with other products is a real plus.
But in terms of hardware, Apple is content with incremental improvements each year and lags behind Chinese manufacturers, who offer more powerful sensors and optics.
Personally, I wanted to test it for myself, so I bought an iPhone 15 Pro.
When I compare it to my Pixel 9 Pro, I prefer the Pixel, even with the original app and its excessive processing. With the app I use now, the results are even better.
I'm not impressed by what I've seen of the 17 Pro. However, I was interested in this device and its new telephoto lens, and my whole family uses Apple.
Given that I almost exclusively take travel photos, I prefer to stick with my P9P.
And not just for photography: thanks to the progress made in recent years, I now prefer the Android ecosystem to iOS.
aramando
Active member
This conversation is about photography, not flash storage. So what if Apple sells a wildly expensive 2TB version? They also sell a 256GB version which is £100 cheaper than the cheapest Xiaomi 15 Ultra (512GB), which is great news if that's enough storage for you (it would be for me). (BTW I'm sure both of these phones can be found for less via 3rd party retailers - most likely in their base model variant). (Also BTW I have a Pixel 6, I'm not stanning for Apple here).
My point is that if someone says they're impressed enough by the images from a phone that they were already interested in to go ahead and get one, you can only safely assume they're valuing the camera in particular to the level of the cheapest model that has that camera, which is not a 2TB Pro Max, it's a 256GB Pro, which costs £1100 (the additional £100 for the Pro Max is purely for the larger screen and battery). Even then what they value it as is likely to be deeply entwined with the other aspects of the device as well as the camera; and some people just really prefer an iOS device to an Android one.
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Edgar_in_Indy
Senior Member
Their tightly integrated ecosystem is a bit of a two-edged sword and, IMO, their reputation for compatibility is an undeserved accolade. Their products (mostly) work well with each other, as you would expect, but it can be a pain to use them with non-Apple products.
All the women and children in my house have iPhones, and even something as simple as getting a full-size, original photo complete with EXIF information from their phone to one of our Windows PCs to add to our family album can be a pain. Also, when my wife wanted a smart watch, she didn't want an Apple watch because she finds them ugly, boring and cookie-cutter. So she got a much better looking Samsung watch (round face, gold trim) but there were some obstacle and limitations to using it with her iPhone.
Meanwhile, with all my Android phones I could always just plug them into a PC with USB and they show up like an external hard drive. And Google apps integrate seamlessly with Windows. Windows Phone Link feature basically gives me full access to my phone from my computers and allows me to easily transfer files.
André BARELIER
Forum Pro
Did you try Local Send? Works great to transfer my photos from my Pixel to my Mac (and the opposite). Needs both device to be connected to the same network.
Edgar_in_Indy
Senior Member
No, I'll check it out. Doesn't seem very elegant though that I would have resort to some random 3rd party specialized app to do something so basic. Especially given that some 70% of computers are Windows machines. That's what I'm talking about Apple's ecosystem not always being an advantage.
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