Me too. The Detail Set menus added more detailed programming options which is awesome. Case numbers were simplified and more effective. Got rid of Switching Tracked Subjects.
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Former Canon now Sony Shooter Looking to go Back to Canon
- Thread starter 4thnebula
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Have used Sony (a6700, a7r IVa), tried the a7C2 as well and had RX100 VII.
Canon's menu have become bloated ? Not sure how you define bloated. There are more items in the menus but still the best organised menu layout. Definitely better than Sony.
Don't have direct experience of an R50V but Canon's menu system comes close to being intuitive with the way colours, icons and text/font are laid out and arranged. Sony is ... hot mess IMO :-/
--C
abe4652
Veteran Member
"Funny how millions of people on an internet platform where they can communicate instantaneously with people on the other side of the world using incredibly powerful handheld computers linked to orbiting the satellites hundreds of miles in space don’t believe in science. Neil deGrasse Tyson"
Funny how Neil deGrasse Tyson also:
"Apparently, the XX/XY chromosomes...are insufficient...Suppose...today I feel 80% female, 20% male...Tomorrow I might feel 80% male"
Funny how Neil deGrasse Tyson also:
"Apparently, the XX/XY chromosomes...are insufficient...Suppose...today I feel 80% female, 20% male...Tomorrow I might feel 80% male"
tbcass
Veteran Member
That's the price of progress. A cameras become more sophisticated and capable the menus become more "bloated" and complex by necessity.
It has to be done only once so I see no problem.
tbcass
Veteran Member
Because you are a Canon user who is used to Canon's menu system you find it intuitive. As a Sony user myself I am used to the Sony system and find it easy to navigate. The fact is there is nothing intuitive about any camera. It's just something you have to learn.
tbcass
Veteran Member
That's nonsense. You are just used to and more familiar with the Canon system. Because I am a Sony user I find their cameras easy to use but because I am unfamiliar with Canon on the occasions when I have used one I find I fumble around trying to use it, not because there is anything wrong with the Canon but simply due to lack of familiarity.
It's the same with cars. If you drive one brand of car it takes time to get used to a different brand. Something as simple as having the wiper stalks on a different side of the steering wheel or the gas filler cap on the opposite side can cause problems.
--
Tom
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I have used cameras from Olympus, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony and Canon. I did end up finding Canon UX intuitive compared to the experience with all the other brands. There are other aspects of Canon UX that make it distinctly better which I can describe if you want.
Agree. With Sony I had to expend cognitive capital and focus on learning that system. But even after learning it... it still was a hot mess in my eyes.
Didn't face that issue with Canon. When I first started using Canon (an R6) I had a Nikon Z6 and Olympus E-M1 II at hand and Canon was the intuitive one... add the inclusion of Fv mode moves that bar even higher up. And I can't use a camera without that mode without frustration (that means I won't wilfully choose to pick up Canon's R50 and R100)
YMMV
--C
Yes that was little different but I'm sure he would explain that better. There are days I feel more emotional than others. He is a bit of a goof ball.
Since we are on this I'll still take him, Brian Cox and a bunch of others over social media disinformation. The people who turned against science over the last 5 years still benefit and live longer lives because of it. While with one hand they pound the table disagreeing and with other hand they and their family members take all their daily medications, have life saving surgeries, and the list goes on. Medicine and Science are intertwined.
Sorry for going off topic. Hope I don't get into trouble.
I would back that. I had several Canon flashes I used for event shooting. I had read about how much better Metz was in Auto. Not that Canon's ETTL was/is not good. Its process requires to take a shot and then tweak Flash Exposure Compensation. Metz was supposed to be more accurate with the first shot. I had read the menu system was less initiative and it was to me. However I adapted. It was tricky using two different types of flashes in a fast moving environment but I made it work. Eventually I sold the Metz because it was easier to use one style.
No. Since I have never shot with anything other than Canon I didn't have a real life example. I was not talking about flashes. I was talking about menu systems.
tbcass
Veteran Member
Maybe because I'm an engineer but I find Sony menus easy to navigate, especially newer models.
I agree about Sony menus. I switched from Canon DSLR to Sony about 6 months ago, l have a A7Rlll. Image quality l'm not finding any better. Canon have been making cameras for a long time and l think that shows.
Even long term Sony users don't understand many of the settings. There so much misinformation out there, which does not help. Searching through the menus for some setting is frustrating, l often have to look it up on the internet. Rarely had to do that on Canon.
FarmerPhotos
Well-known member
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touché :-D
Maybe because I'm an engineer but I find Sony menus easy to navigate, especially newer models.
Maybe because I'm an engineer but I find Sony menus easy to navigate, especially newer models.
sportyaccordy
Veteran Member
Same, I feel like you eventually get used to nearly any menu system. I didn't have a problem with the old Sony menus either. Im talking like Sony NEX days.
I thought that but it is proving difficult on Sony. You can buy a guide book how you use all the settings, it is over 450 pages, think the author gave up after the A7Rlv, as l can't see one for A7RV. There quite a few hidden things. Also conflicting settings, if you set something then you can't use something else, there is no warning, such as using bulb with silent shutter.
Sony are slow, it has taken them 4 or 5 generations, to have basic settings, that were on DSLRs.
The Sony menus of the time the A7III was launched in 2017 (!) did indeed draw criticism back then, which was public info in all cam reviews and could have prepared the buyer of a used, 7 year since release date, hence dated camera. Since 2021, Sony's menus have been revamped and are better received since.
From current Canon camera reviews, their menu system can also be less intuitive:
- https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r50-v-review-vlogging-camera#CN
- DPR writes: Some features can be hard to find
- https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-review#CC
- DPR writes: New menu arrangement (!) easier to make sense of (!)
Canon as well as other makers DSLRs from some 20 years back had less features to control via menu. Other camera makers - also "making cameras for a long time", like Nikon - face the same challenge with so-so results, even in their latest releases:
- https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z5ii-review#CC
- DPR writes: Menus rather long and featureless
A certain percentage of such misinformation appears sourced from new, uneducated users facing the need to adapt to the new system they bought into, leading to buyers remorse creeping into their "inputs". The challenge is to figure that out and then ignore such www content.
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Maybe Sony has been designed by engineers and not photographers?
l far prefer Canon's simple focussing system, where you can MF at any time, you don't have different settings and press AF all the time just use MF. Then try using enlargement at the same time. You almost need 3 hands for some Sony features.
Sony lcd screens are poor, apart from some of latest cameras, such the A7RV. For a company makes TVs it is surprising. The Canon 5DS screen is far better than the A7Rlll, which l find unusable when outside.
On Canon can you tell the focus distance in MF without changing the focus? On Sony you have to change the focus to tell what the distance is. Moving the focus ring slightly moves tge distance considerably, the scale on my lens is not at all accurate.
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I don't know about Sony but Canon cameras UX/haptics do feel like as if they are designed/approved by product-experts/testers who actually use the cameras
When I compared my then R6's focus selection and engagement with Nikon Z6 and Olympus E-M1 II I kept wondering how did Canon manage to get the UX/Haptics right.
There are Engineers in the crowd who are attributing affinity to complexity because they are Engineers and probably that might well be the case.
I am not a pro-photographer but a Software "Engineer". I know that is not a real Engineer and I belong to the crowd of professionals who decided there won't be another year after 1999 (although I am an entire generation younger than that crowd). My day job has me looking at screens and various representations of complexity rendered as terse text all day long most days of the week.
I don't want my escape/hobby/non-work-activity to look and feel like my day job. Canon takes all that out of the picture (pun intended).
Sony and Olympus menu systems are not for me after having experienced Canon and don't have the means to delve into exotic European systems just to try them... and actually don't feel the need to having used Canon.
This realisation only happens after having actually used and compared more than one systems. On paper the a7r IVa would have been the perfect setup for me with the G 24-50 f/2.8 ... but I think I was "under-qualified" for it
.. the VF and screen somehow worked/felt better on my then R6 II and my current R5 II leaves nothing to be desired... well ... I do complain about Canon's lens lineup not making sense but Canon are changing that and have been upping their game recently.--C
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