Fujifilm X-M5/Sony ZV-E10 II vs Sigma FP for hiking and traveling?

We used to use a Nikon D850 for hiking and traveling.

But the D850 has been weighing us down as we age we are thinking of going mirrorless.

Looking at the market, I see we can afford around the price point of a X-M5 or ZV-E10 II. A more entry to mid tier mirrorless camera in the market. We looked at the Canon R50 V as well but it lacks the vast amount of lenses available compared to Sony and Fujifilm. Thats why we lean more towards Fujifilm and Sony.

The camera store representative that we visited said that currently the X-M5 is in back order for the silver version but might still have 1 or 2 black ones left in stock. They have the ZV-E10 II in stock both the body and kit set. My partner prefers the X-M5 for it's small body and color filters meanwhile I lean more towards the ZV-E10 II for the bigger battery.

We got home to further think about it, but then on FB market we stumbled upon a used Sigma FP that's selling around the same price as new ZV-E10 II/X-M5/R50 V.

And then it got into a new rabbit hole because we have always been focusing on APSC entry to mid tier level new cameras, we missed an entire section of older but still very compact full frame mirrorless cameras like the Sigma FP. I think the other option is a Sony A7C mark I but that one is still going for higher than the FP and is bigger as well.

So my question is, anyone have experience on the FP and can roughly compare it to current mainstream small compact entry/mid level mirrorless cameras that's available to purchase in store now?

Any thoughts and comparisons? I did a search on youtube and I do see one or two videos comparing the Sigma BF to the Fujifilm X-M5, I think it's Japanese. But the BF is a different camera to the FP. Still very interesting. But the current mainstream youtube photography channels seem to focus a lot on new mainstream cameras comparison they miss the mainstream new vs used cameras comparisons.

Are you sure you would be happy going from a 45Mpix FF body to a 26Mpix (ish) APSC one?

I guess it all depends on what you shoot, how you view, what lenses you need etc….

Lenses are arguably a more important part of the cost and weight of a system than bodies. Choosing a mount is fundamental to lens options.

Full disclosure, my travel options are an OM5 (with 12-45/4) and an A7CR (with 20-70/4). I have multiple other MFT and FE lenses.

Body choice might also depend on what you shoot, once you go mirrorless. For example, wildlife or action might suggest a stacked sensor (OM1 for me), and toddlers bouncing around human subject detection (A7CR).

If a mount system has the bodies and lenses you need and want to budget for, it doesn’t matter what else it has, but what do you want?

If you just want to shoot landscape on a tripod and slow action like portraits, a used Sony A7Rii might suit. I loved mine, but it really is sluggish and has long blackout shooting bursts. EVF IQ and frame rate are rather important for mirrorless, depending on what you shoot and whether you wear glasses to look through the EVF.

Hope those random thoughts help. You have an excellent DSLR. I’d want an excellent mirrorless upgrade.

Andrew

ahaslett said:

Are you sure you would be happy going from a 45Mpix FF body to a 26Mpix (ish) APSC one?

I guess it all depends on what you shoot, how you view, what lenses you need etc….

Lenses are arguably a more important part of the cost and weight of a system than bodies. Choosing a mount is fundamental to lens options.

Full disclosure, my travel options are an OM5 (with 12-45/4) and an A7CR (with 20-70/4). I have multiple other MFT and FE lenses.

Body choice might also depend on what you shoot, once you go mirrorless. For example, wildlife or action might suggest a stacked sensor (OM1 for me), and toddlers bouncing around human subject detection (A7CR).

If a mount system has the bodies and lenses you need and want to budget for, it doesn’t matter what else it has, but what do you want?

If you just want to shoot landscape on a tripod and slow action like portraits, a used Sony A7Rii might suit. I loved mine, but it really is sluggish and has long blackout shooting bursts. EVF IQ and frame rate are rather important for mirrorless, depending on what you shoot and whether you wear glasses to look through the EVF.

Hope those random thoughts help. You have an excellent DSLR. I’d want an excellent mirrorless upgrade.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Hi thanks for your thoughtful reply.

We are not going to sell our D850. We love the camera. It's just for hiking and traveling we are looking for something smaller to carry around, smaller lenses as well, so we can carry a smaller backpack, and make things easier when going through custom scans, finding spots to put our bags on flight, etc. The Zf and A7 series cameras we just seem not big of a difference compared to the D850 and might as well just use our D850. That's why we are looking more at a stark contrast to the D850, with a small package to contrast that of the D850.

We looked at the OM-5 II but it's a bit out of budget for us. The OM-5 I fits our price range but it's out of stock in the camera store we went to. Maybe we'll do some more research on that camera.

But then the same question arises, how does it compare to the Sigma FP. Because a used Sigma FP is around the same price as well.

Keros said:

ahaslett said:

Are you sure you would be happy going from a 45Mpix FF body to a 26Mpix (ish) APSC one?

I guess it all depends on what you shoot, how you view, what lenses you need etc….

Lenses are arguably a more important part of the cost and weight of a system than bodies. Choosing a mount is fundamental to lens options.

Full disclosure, my travel options are an OM5 (with 12-45/4) and an A7CR (with 20-70/4). I have multiple other MFT and FE lenses.

Body choice might also depend on what you shoot, once you go mirrorless. For example, wildlife or action might suggest a stacked sensor (OM1 for me), and toddlers bouncing around human subject detection (A7CR).

If a mount system has the bodies and lenses you need and want to budget for, it doesn’t matter what else it has, but what do you want?

If you just want to shoot landscape on a tripod and slow action like portraits, a used Sony A7Rii might suit. I loved mine, but it really is sluggish and has long blackout shooting bursts. EVF IQ and frame rate are rather important for mirrorless, depending on what you shoot and whether you wear glasses to look through the EVF.

Hope those random thoughts help. You have an excellent DSLR. I’d want an excellent mirrorless upgrade.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Hi thanks for your thoughtful reply.

We are not going to sell our D850. We love the camera. It's just for hiking and traveling we are looking for something smaller to carry around, smaller lenses as well, so we can carry a smaller backpack, and make things easier when going through custom scans, finding spots to put our bags on flight, etc. The Zf and A7 series cameras we just seem not big of a difference compared to the D850 and might as well just use our D850. That's why we are looking more at a stark contrast to the D850, with a small package to contrast that of the D850.

We looked at the OM-5 II but it's a bit out of budget for us. The OM-5 I fits our price range but it's out of stock in the camera store we went to. Maybe we'll do some more research on that camera.

But then the same question arises, how does it compare to the Sigma FP.

Click to expand...

This is my OM5 “1kg” kit.


PL 25/1.4, OM5 with 10/2, 12-45/4, FL-LM3 mini flash

You can’t buy the OM5 mk i any more, but I’d buy used in any case.

The OM5 with battery is 8g lighter than the fp, the OM5.2 only 4g lighter. I’ve shot without an EVF and I’m not sure I’d recommend it. The EVF-11 accessory for the fp is a nice bit of kit but weighs 114g and costs £330 here used. L-mount has some good lenses but they are FF, so tend to gather lots of light and be heavy.

The 12-45/4 is excellent but has a limited shooting envelope. Best across the frame performance is f4-5.6 (by design of course). The 25/1.4 and 10/2 have compromises but are small and were cheap (used for the 25/1.4 mk i).


Bit of a handful

Not having used an fp, I can’t comment on AF, functionality etc. The OM5 is a high function body with fast AF but limited in terms of modern functions like subject recognition and tracking. It has excellent IBIS, handheld and pixel shift hi-res, LiveND, Live Composite, Bulb etc. Batteries are small and you need a spare, but you can charge in camera.

The body and 12-45/4 are both weather resistant and there are f1.8 WR primes in MFT (and indeed in X).

I’m a RAW shooter and you probably want to shoot and expose for RAW with a smaller sensor, especially with the excellent sensor optimisation of Nikon as your reference. There is a free RAW processor for OM bodies, including even AI NR.

Carrying a smaller sensor body comes with limitations, but I also have the A7CR, so I’m accepting the limitations in return for a small kit.


Berwick on Tweed - A7CR


Birmingham - OM5

You want to travel without a tripod, so IBIS ought to be high on your list of requirements.

For MFT that’s almost any fairly recent body (even up to >10 years ago for OM/EM1or5 bodies). For small Sony, it’s A7Cii/CR. That would kill the ZVE10 for me for any kind of interior or evening shooting.

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

What focal lengths do you need covered? Full Frame lenses generally get very large and heavy past 300mm.

Keros said:

And then it got into a new rabbit hole because we have always been focusing on APSC entry to mid tier level new cameras, we missed an entire section of older but still very compact full frame mirrorless cameras like the Sigma FP. I think the other option is a Sony A7C mark I but that one is still going for higher than the FP and is bigger as well.

So my question is, anyone have experience on the FP and can roughly compare it to current mainstream small compact entry/mid level mirrorless cameras that's available to purchase in store now?

Any thoughts and comparisons? I did a search on youtube and I do see one or two videos comparing the Sigma BF to the Fujifilm X-M5, I think it's Japanese. But the BF is a different camera to the FP. Still very interesting. But the current mainstream youtube photography channels seem to focus a lot on new mainstream cameras comparison they miss the mainstream new vs used cameras comparisons.

Click to expand...

I have no experience with the Sigma fp. You may get better answers in the Sigma Camera Talk forum.

This DPR "Hands On" article looks upon the fp not as a stills camera, but as a video module to mount in a cage, accessorize, and use for video recording. It reminds me of the Sony FX3 but without the grip.

The other cameras you're looking at are still-oriented, so the fp doesn't seem to fit with these cameras.

--
Lance H

Phaser said:

What focal lengths do you need covered? Full Frame lenses generally get very large and heavy past 300mm.

Click to expand...

I am trying to keep the whole package small, so for example if I am getting the Sony, at the biggest I am going to get the Sigma 18-50/2.8 or if it's Fujifilm, the kit 16-50/2.8-4.8. Or primes that are small as well like the Sony 20/2.8 or Fujifilm 23/2.8.

So if I am getting the FP, it'll be something similar. Not looking to use a 300-600/4 on a FP. It's for travelling and hiking as stated.

Since you're used to Nikon, I would suggest taking a look at the Nikon Z30 + Z DX 18-140mm f/3.5-6.3 VR and/or Z DX 24mm F1.7. Unlike the Sony ZV-E10 II, the Z30 has a mechanical shutter.

It will be OM-5 II surely for traveling and hiking.

ahaslett said:

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's the case currently. I made the jump from OM System to Fuji a while back but when I was researching the decision, that specific topic came up. As I looked into it, I learned that it was the case initially that all RAW processors save for Capture One, had issues with the X Trans sensor output. But today, at least with DxO and Lightroom, that's no longer true. There are some very good (serious) pro landscaper photographers out there that are using processors other than C1 (Andy Mumford is one for example).

And while I do prefer to use C1, I've got DxO and I see no issues at all with how it handles the Fuji RAW files.

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's the case currently. I made the jump from OM System to Fuji a while back but when I was researching the decision, that specific topic came up. As I looked into it, I learned that it was the case initially that all RAW processors save for Capture One, had issues with the X Trans sensor output. But today, at least with DxO and Lightroom, that's no longer true. There are some very good (serious) pro landscaper photographers out there that are using processors other than C1 (Andy Mumford is one for example).

And while I do prefer to use C1, I've got DxO and I see no issues at all with how it handles the Fuji RAW files.

Click to expand...

I have C1 and PhotoLab. Someone posted an Xtrans landscape maybe a year ago where the ironwork was crisp but the green foliage next to it was mushy. They said they used C1…

So, no insight but also no interest. Having a fair bit of MFT and FE kit, also no need at present.

I’m not disagreeing, just explaining why I know zip about Fuji APSC. Now Fuji MF is 4:3 and Bayer CFA.

A

ahaslett said:

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's the case currently. I made the jump from OM System to Fuji a while back but when I was researching the decision, that specific topic came up. As I looked into it, I learned that it was the case initially that all RAW processors save for Capture One, had issues with the X Trans sensor output. But today, at least with DxO and Lightroom, that's no longer true. There are some very good (serious) pro landscaper photographers out there that are using processors other than C1 (Andy Mumford is one for example).

And while I do prefer to use C1, I've got DxO and I see no issues at all with how it handles the Fuji RAW files.

Click to expand...

I have C1 and PhotoLab. Someone posted an Xtrans landscape maybe a year ago where the ironwork was crisp but the green foliage next to it was mushy. They said they used C1…

So, no insight but also no interest. Having a fair bit of MFT and FE kit, also no need at present.

Click to expand...

Understood. I was just concerned about your general statement about the X-Trans sensor having issues with multiple RAW processors (which is not true) causing someone to be dissuaded from considering the Fujifilm X system.

ahaslett said:

I’m not disagreeing, just explaining why I know zip about Fuji APSC.

Click to expand...

Point taken.

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's the case currently. I made the jump from OM System to Fuji a while back but when I was researching the decision, that specific topic came up. As I looked into it, I learned that it was the case initially that all RAW processors save for Capture One, had issues with the X Trans sensor output. But today, at least with DxO and Lightroom, that's no longer true. There are some very good (serious) pro landscaper photographers out there that are using processors other than C1 (Andy Mumford is one for example).

And while I do prefer to use C1, I've got DxO and I see no issues at all with how it handles the Fuji RAW files.

Click to expand...

I have C1 and PhotoLab. Someone posted an Xtrans landscape maybe a year ago where the ironwork was crisp but the green foliage next to it was mushy. They said they used C1…

So, no insight but also no interest. Having a fair bit of MFT and FE kit, also no need at present.

Click to expand...

Understood. I was just concerned about your general statement about the X-Trans sensor having issues with multiple RAW processors (which is not true) causing someone to be dissuaded from considering the Fujifilm X system.

DNBush said:

I’m not disagreeing, just explaining why I know zip about Fuji APSC.

Click to expand...

Point taken.

Click to expand...

I had a look at Mumford’s galleries. I really like his work but the galleries are low resolution, so everything looks mushy. Understandable, but hard to judge the image impact at anything other than smallish print scale.

A

ahaslett said:

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

DNBush said:

ahaslett said:

I have no interest in Fuji APSC because landscape is important to me and the X-trans sensor has issues with multiple RAW processors. Therefore no insight at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's the case currently. I made the jump from OM System to Fuji a while back but when I was researching the decision, that specific topic came up. As I looked into it, I learned that it was the case initially that all RAW processors save for Capture One, had issues with the X Trans sensor output. But today, at least with DxO and Lightroom, that's no longer true. There are some very good (serious) pro landscaper photographers out there that are using processors other than C1 (Andy Mumford is one for example).

And while I do prefer to use C1, I've got DxO and I see no issues at all with how it handles the Fuji RAW files.

Click to expand...

I have C1 and PhotoLab. Someone posted an Xtrans landscape maybe a year ago where the ironwork was crisp but the green foliage next to it was mushy. They said they used C1…

So, no insight but also no interest. Having a fair bit of MFT and FE kit, also no need at present.

Click to expand...

Understood. I was just concerned about your general statement about the X-Trans sensor having issues with multiple RAW processors (which is not true) causing someone to be dissuaded from considering the Fujifilm X system.

ahaslett said:

I’m not disagreeing, just explaining why I know zip about Fuji APSC.

Click to expand...

Point taken.

Click to expand...

I had a look at Mumford’s galleries. I really like his work but the galleries are low resolution, so everything looks mushy. Understandable, but hard to judge the image impact at anything other than smallish print scale.

Click to expand...

Well, that's to be expected. Buy a print from him and you'll likely see that mushy is not what he's getting out of his X-T5.

All the cameras you list are video centric. Yet I see no mention of video (perhaps I missed it). For a more compact kit, I’m not sure how looking at FF bodies, with I assume FF lenses, is going to be much of an improvement. An OM5, EM10 or any of the Sony a6xxx bodies is where I’d look. Nothing wrong with Fuji processing. They’re not frequently sold out because people don’t buy them. Been there, listened to all the nay sayers, my highest selling prints are from a D800 and an old, horrible, tough to process, Fuji XTrans 2 XE2.

I would really miss viewfinder in those nice sunny days. It's also much better to focus on the shot for me.

I would consider A6400/6600/6700 with eg. 18-135mm and 10-20mm or similar from other manufacturers.

I would not consider FF for this purpose due to size of the most of the lenses (I can see it clearly on A7cII now).