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Topaz licensing question

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tbcass said:
pajarrett said:
BobKnDP said:
Topaz marketing appears to believe that they know what their customers want.

I hope that they don't kill the company if they are as mistaken as they appear to be.
Click to expand...
They would not be the first company to tank on a faulty marketing plan.
Click to expand...
Their marketing plan is much the same as Adobe and Capture one. It's the future. I expect DXO to be next.
Click to expand...
Adobe and C1 offer major, core products that aren’t easily replaced. Their customers edit every image with them. Many customers are professionals who are happy with subscription licences. I don’t think DxO will go that way, but it is increasing prices.

Topaz doesn’t have remotely the market position of Adobe. It’s trying to charge me more than I pay for DxO, for a minor, peripheral product that I only use to sharpen the occasional image. Yes, I can perfectly well afford it, but Topaz has lost me, and many others here.

You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
 
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Personally, i am waiting for a DxO coupon or Black Friday. DxO produces superior results and is easy to use. For those on the fence, they may find this useful.
Click to expand...
I use DXO for RAWs and Topaz to improve old film scans and digital JPEGs that need tweaking. Topaz is still poor at color and contrast control for RAWs. Almost everything he is saying is totally different from my experience so I declare this video misleading. Topaz Photo is far superior to Photo AI.
Click to expand...
Ok, now where is your evidence to refute this? I haven't seen a single video supporting your contentions. Also, if Topaz photo is so great, why aren't they offering a free download trial like every other manufacturer in the space?
 
As is usual I disagree with everything you are saying. I have never seen anybody I so consistently disagree with in these forums. Discussing anything with you leads nowhere.
 
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Personally, i am waiting for a DxO coupon or Black Friday. DxO produces superior results and is easy to use. For those on the fence, they may find this useful.
Click to expand...
I use DXO for RAWs and Topaz to improve old film scans and digital JPEGs that need tweaking. Topaz is still poor at color and contrast control for RAWs. Almost everything he is saying is totally different from my experience so I declare this video misleading. Topaz Photo is far superior to Photo AI.
Click to expand...
Ok, now where is your evidence to refute this? I haven't seen a single video supporting your contentions. Also, if Topaz photo is so great, why aren't they offering a free download trial like every other manufacturer in the space?
Click to expand...
I use both programs and have used Photo AI for 3 years. The evidence is with the results I see with my own eyes when I compare the results. Photo is much better than Photo AI or any of the separate stand alone products which I also own. The You Tube channel offers no evidence either so you can believe him or me. Several of his comments on pricing are different from what I paid. The choice is yours. The only thing I can say is that by seeing him it's obvious I have been a photographer longer than he's been alive. I've been using photo editing software since the early 2000s. He expressed his opinions which was his right. I am expressing my opinions which is my right. The only reason you believe him over me is because he has a YouTube channel. Most You Tube channels are garbage and designed to get viewers and make money and they get viewers by creating controversy as this one does. He has only 65k subscribers so not many people watch his channel.

--
Tom
 
Last edited:
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
pajarrett said:
BobKnDP said:
Topaz marketing appears to believe that they know what their customers want.

I hope that they don't kill the company if they are as mistaken as they appear to be.
Click to expand...
They would not be the first company to tank on a faulty marketing plan.
Click to expand...
Their marketing plan is much the same as Adobe and Capture one. It's the future. I expect DXO to be next.
Click to expand...
Adobe and C1 offer major, core products that aren’t easily replaced. Their customers edit every image with them. Many customers are professionals who are happy with subscription licences. I don’t think DxO will go that way, but it is increasing prices.

Topaz doesn’t have remotely the market position of Adobe. It’s trying to charge me more than I pay for DxO, for a minor, peripheral product that I only use to sharpen the occasional image. Yes, I can perfectly well afford it, but Topaz has lost me, and many others here.
Click to expand...
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do. It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Digital Nigel said:
You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
Click to expand...
Most people haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
 
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Personally, i am waiting for a DxO coupon or Black Friday. DxO produces superior results and is easy to use. For those on the fence, they may find this useful.
Click to expand...
I use DXO for RAWs and Topaz to improve old film scans and digital JPEGs that need tweaking. Topaz is still poor at color and contrast control for RAWs. Almost everything he is saying is totally different from my experience so I declare this video misleading. Topaz Photo is far superior to Photo AI.
Click to expand...
Ok, now where is your evidence to refute this? I haven't seen a single video supporting your contentions. Also, if Topaz photo is so great, why aren't they offering a free download trial like every other manufacturer in the space?
Click to expand...
I use both programs and have used Photo AI for 3 years. The evidence is with the results I see with my own eyes when I compare the results. Photo is much better than Photo AI or any of the separate stand alone products which I also own. The You Tube channel offers no evidence either so you can believe him or me. Several of his comments on pricing are different from what I paid. The choice is yours. The only thing I can say is that by seeing him it's obvious I have been a photographer longer than he's been alive. I've been using photo editing software since the early 2000s. He expressed his opinions which was his right. I am expressing my opinions which is my right. The only reason you believe him over me is because he has a YouTube channel. Most You Tube channels are garbage and designed to get viewers and make money and they get viewers by creating controversy as this one does. He has only 65k subscribers so not many people watch his channel.
Click to expand...
Again, you haven't provided one single example of the superiority of Photo over Photo AI, DxO... Nor have I seen one video or review suggesting that's the case. Trust but verify is the name of the game.
 
tbcass said:
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
pajarrett said:
BobKnDP said:
Topaz marketing appears to believe that they know what their customers want.

I hope that they don't kill the company if they are as mistaken as they appear to be.
Click to expand...
They would not be the first company to tank on a faulty marketing plan.
Click to expand...
Their marketing plan is much the same as Adobe and Capture one. It's the future. I expect DXO to be next.
Click to expand...
Adobe and C1 offer major, core products that aren’t easily replaced. Their customers edit every image with them. Many customers are professionals who are happy with subscription licences. I don’t think DxO will go that way, but it is increasing prices.

Topaz doesn’t have remotely the market position of Adobe. It’s trying to charge me more than I pay for DxO, for a minor, peripheral product that I only use to sharpen the occasional image. Yes, I can perfectly well afford it, but Topaz has lost me, and many others here.
Click to expand...
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do. It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Click to expand...
$200/annum if I pay for a full year and I own nothing with Photo. DxO PL is not a fair comparison - it's a full RAW editor/DAM. DxO PureRAW is perhaps a closer match and is $129 for a new license or $89 for an upgrade. With either DxO product the user owns the software - in the way Topaz used to be.
tbcass said:
tbcass said:
You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
Click to expand...
Most people haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yes, we hate the subscription model and no, people can't "try" the new product since Topaz won't offer a trial period or refund. Your claims are getting tired and why don't you put up some examples rather than bloviating?
 
tbcass said:
As is usual I disagree with everything you are saying. I have never seen anybody I so consistently disagree with in these forums. Discussing anything with you leads nowhere.
Click to expand...
I've never seen anyone so strident who doesn't provide any concrete evidence of his outlandish claims. I won't apologize for the truth I and I suspect many others concur with Nigel.
 
Last edited:
tbcass said:
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
pajarrett said:
BobKnDP said:
Topaz marketing appears to believe that they know what their customers want.

I hope that they don't kill the company if they are as mistaken as they appear to be.
Click to expand...
They would not be the first company to tank on a faulty marketing plan.
Click to expand...
Their marketing plan is much the same as Adobe and Capture one. It's the future. I expect DXO to be next.
Click to expand...
Adobe and C1 offer major, core products that aren’t easily replaced. Their customers edit every image with them. Many customers are professionals who are happy with subscription licences. I don’t think DxO will go that way, but it is increasing prices.

Topaz doesn’t have remotely the market position of Adobe. It’s trying to charge me more than I pay for DxO, for a minor, peripheral product that I only use to sharpen the occasional image. Yes, I can perfectly well afford it, but Topaz has lost me, and many others here.
Click to expand...
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do.
Click to expand...
That is correct. And Topaz no longer offers me what I want. It’s great for Topaz that it has one fan, but you alone won’t keep the company going.
tbcass said:
It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Click to expand...
So, show us how it’s better than PAI4. You seem to be alone in seeing the improvements.

tbcass said:
tbcass said:
You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
Click to expand...
Most people haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yup, as Topaz is about to find out. Topaz wants to charge me about four times as much as I think its product is worth to me. Instead, it’ll get nothing.
 
Last edited:
tbcass said:
As is usual I disagree with everything you are saying. I have never seen anybody I so consistently disagree with in these forums. Discussing anything with you leads nowhere.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what you’re complaining about?

You love the new product, and are happy with its subscription licence and price. That’s great for you and Topaz. I have no reason to disagree with your decision.



And I don’t, so I won’t be subscribing. Most other people here seem to agree with me. Why do you have a problem with that?
 
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Personally, i am waiting for a DxO coupon or Black Friday. DxO produces superior results and is easy to use. For those on the fence, they may find this useful.
Click to expand...
I use DXO for RAWs and Topaz to improve old film scans and digital JPEGs that need tweaking. Topaz is still poor at color and contrast control for RAWs. Almost everything he is saying is totally different from my experience so I declare this video misleading. Topaz Photo is far superior to Photo AI.
Click to expand...
Ok, now where is your evidence to refute this? I haven't seen a single video supporting your contentions. Also, if Topaz photo is so great, why aren't they offering a free download trial like every other manufacturer in the space?
Click to expand...
I use both programs and have used Photo AI for 3 years. The evidence is with the results I see with my own eyes when I compare the results. Photo is much better than Photo AI or any of the separate stand alone products which I also own. The You Tube channel offers no evidence either so you can believe him or me. Several of his comments on pricing are different from what I paid. The choice is yours. The only thing I can say is that by seeing him it's obvious I have been a photographer longer than he's been alive. I've been using photo editing software since the early 2000s. He expressed his opinions which was his right. I am expressing my opinions which is my right. The only reason you believe him over me is because he has a YouTube channel. Most You Tube channels are garbage and designed to get viewers and make money and they get viewers by creating controversy as this one does. He has only 65k subscribers so not many people watch his channel.
Click to expand...
Again, you haven't provided one single example of the superiority of Photo over Photo AI, DxO... Nor have I seen one video or review suggesting that's the case. Trust but verify is the name of the game.
Click to expand...
The guy in that video didn't show any examples either so why hod me to a different standard. For RAW DXO Photo Lab, which I also use, is superior to Topaz Photo. Topaz products are far superior to DXO for JPEGs. That said here's an old poor quality film scan from 1987 processed with Topaz Photo on the left and DXO on the right.



85561c59799f49bca66bdb8333bb85cd.jpg



--
Tom
 
Adam2 said:
Member said:
ple haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yes, we hate the subscription model and no, people can't "try" the new product since Topaz won't offer a trial period or refund. Your claims are getting tired and why don't you put up some examples rather than bloviating?
Click to expand...


Before
Before



After processing with Topaz Photo.
After processing with Topaz Photo.

I have filed a complaint against you for your rudeness.

--
Tom
 
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
ple haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yes, we hate the subscription model and no, people can't "try" the new product since Topaz won't offer a trial period or refund. Your claims are getting tired and why don't you put up some examples rather than bloviating?
Click to expand...
Before
Before

After processing with Topaz Photo.
After processing with Topaz Photo.

I have filed a complaint against you for your rudeness.
Click to expand...
As opposed to your rudeness? Users are posting valid concerns about a wholesale turn by a company who produces software they commonly use. You've been dismissive, rude, and have provided no substantiation for your outlandish assertions regarding Topaz Photo. I believe the majority of users would agree with my observations.
 
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
pajarrett said:
BobKnDP said:
Topaz marketing appears to believe that they know what their customers want.

I hope that they don't kill the company if they are as mistaken as they appear to be.
Click to expand...
They would not be the first company to tank on a faulty marketing plan.
Click to expand...
Their marketing plan is much the same as Adobe and Capture one. It's the future. I expect DXO to be next.
Click to expand...
Adobe and C1 offer major, core products that aren’t easily replaced. Their customers edit every image with them. Many customers are professionals who are happy with subscription licences. I don’t think DxO will go that way, but it is increasing prices.

Topaz doesn’t have remotely the market position of Adobe. It’s trying to charge me more than I pay for DxO, for a minor, peripheral product that I only use to sharpen the occasional image. Yes, I can perfectly well afford it, but Topaz has lost me, and many others here.
Click to expand...
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do.
Click to expand...
That is correct. And Topaz no longer offers me what I want. It’s great for Topaz that it has one fan, but you alone won’t keep the company going.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they have a couple of fans, though their marketing direction does seem bewildering.
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Click to expand...
So, show us how it’s better than PAI4. You seem to be alone in seeing the improvements.
Click to expand...
Yes, he has run away from providing concrete examples. Recently he posted a low resolution film scan with no information on settings or efforts to optimize. That doesn't cut it.
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
Click to expand...
Most people haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yup, as Topaz is about to find out. Topaz wants to charge me about four times as much as I think its product is worth to me. Instead, it’ll get nothing.
Click to expand...
Precisely. They don't even offer a "trial" period which is unheard of in the industry. Topaz requires a year long contract with no option for a refund. How can anyone "try" the software? Bottom line is many of us will flee the space. There are plenty of alternatives from LR/PS, to DxO to On1 Photo RAW.
 
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Personally, i am waiting for a DxO coupon or Black Friday. DxO produces superior results and is easy to use. For those on the fence, they may find this useful.
Click to expand...
I use DXO for RAWs and Topaz to improve old film scans and digital JPEGs that need tweaking. Topaz is still poor at color and contrast control for RAWs. Almost everything he is saying is totally different from my experience so I declare this video misleading. Topaz Photo is far superior to Photo AI.
Click to expand...
Ok, now where is your evidence to refute this? I haven't seen a single video supporting your contentions. Also, if Topaz photo is so great, why aren't they offering a free download trial like every other manufacturer in the space?
Click to expand...
I use both programs and have used Photo AI for 3 years. The evidence is with the results I see with my own eyes when I compare the results. Photo is much better than Photo AI or any of the separate stand alone products which I also own. The You Tube channel offers no evidence either so you can believe him or me. Several of his comments on pricing are different from what I paid. The choice is yours. The only thing I can say is that by seeing him it's obvious I have been a photographer longer than he's been alive. I've been using photo editing software since the early 2000s. He expressed his opinions which was his right. I am expressing my opinions which is my right. The only reason you believe him over me is because he has a YouTube channel. Most You Tube channels are garbage and designed to get viewers and make money and they get viewers by creating controversy as this one does. He has only 65k subscribers so not many people watch his channel.
Click to expand...
Again, you haven't provided one single example of the superiority of Photo over Photo AI, DxO... Nor have I seen one video or review suggesting that's the case. Trust but verify is the name of the game.
Click to expand...
The guy in that video didn't show any examples either so why hod me to a different standard. For RAW DXO Photo Lab, which I also use, is superior to Topaz Photo. Topaz products are far superior to DXO for JPEGs. That said here's an old poor quality film scan from 1987 processed with Topaz Photo on the left and DXO on the right.
Click to expand...
Who is holding you to a "different standard"? You've claimed the reviewer (and most YT channels) are "garbage", have bad mouthed users on this forum, and repeatedly claim that Topaz Photo is superior to any product out there. So yes, you should provide examples to back up those assertions.
tbcass said:
85561c59799f49bca66bdb8333bb85cd.jpg
Click to expand...
What does this one composite demonstrate? First, the Topaz photo is nearly twice the size of the DxO processed photo. Also, you haven't provided any settings, descriptions of how it was processed, etc. It's hardly a valid comparison.
 
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do.
Click to expand...
That is correct. And Topaz no longer offers me what I want. It’s great for Topaz that it has one fan, but you alone won’t keep the company going.
Digital Nigel said:
It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Click to expand...
So, show us how it’s better than PAI4. You seem to be alone in seeing the improvements.
Click to expand...
Topaz has add extra controls on several of its processors which give more control. For example they added an opacity slider which adjusts the amount of focus boost. This was missing in Photo AI. Super Focus also renders about 2 times faster on my computer. The removal tool is a lot better.
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
You seem to be the only one here likes the new product and the deal. That’s good for you, but only for as long as Topaz survives.
Click to expand...
Most people haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yup, as Topaz is about to find out. Topaz wants to charge me about four times as much as I think its product is worth to me. Instead, it’ll get nothing.
Click to expand...
Value is personal. I will not presume to claim what I find a good value is something you should as well. $80 + tax is cheap for me. Previously I subscribed to Photo AI. Now I subscribe to Photo at the same price. I fail to see what the problem is.



Original in the right. Processed with Photo on the left.
Original in the right. Processed with Photo on the left.



--
Tom
 
tbcass said:
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
I pay less for Photo than what I pay for DXO Photo Lab. I don't believe you use Topaz Photo the same way I do.
Click to expand...
That is correct. And Topaz no longer offers me what I want. It’s great for Topaz that it has one fan, but you alone won’t keep the company going.
tbcass said:
It's great for improving the thousands of photos both film and digital that I have going back to the 1960s.
Click to expand...
So, show us how it’s better than PAI4. You seem to be alone in seeing the improvements.
Click to expand...
Topaz has add extra controls on several of its processors which give more control. For example they added an opacity slider which adjusts the amount of focus boost. This was missing in Photo AI. Super Focus also renders about 2 times faster on my computer. The removal tool is a lot better.
Click to expand...
Please provide an example or two where Photo produces better results than PAI4.
 
Adam2 said:
Who is holding you to a "different standard"? You've claimed the reviewer (and most YT channels) are "garbage", have bad mouthed users on this forum, and repeatedly claim that Topaz Photo is superior to any product out there. So yes, you should provide examples to back up those assertions.
Click to expand...
I never said any of those things. I said Topaz photo is superior to DXO Photo Lab for processing JPEGs while Photo Lab is far superior for processing RAWS.. I have not badmouthed a single person on this forum. Disagreeing with someone is not badmouthing. You on the other hand have bad mouthed me repeatedly.
Member said:
Member said:
85561c59799f49bca66bdb8333bb85cd.jpg
Click to expand...
What does this one composite demonstrate? First, the Topaz photo is nearly twice the size of the DxO processed photo. Also, you haven't provided any settings, descriptions of how it was processed, etc. It's hardly a valid comparison.
Click to expand...
It is a 100% valid comparison. They are both 11.73 MP JPEG scans from color negative film. The Topaz one is a larger file size because the extra detail requires it. The DXO version was processed using noise reduction, Unsharpen mask, contrast and micro contrast adjustments. This is the best result I could get. The Topaz Photo one was processed with Super focus strength 50 and opacity 75.

I get the impression that nothing I say will convince you that Topaz Photo is superior to DXO Photo Lab when is comes to processing old JPEGs. You have made up your mind and no evidence will change it. So be it.

--
Tom
 
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
As is usual I disagree with everything you are saying. I have never seen anybody I so consistently disagree with in these forums. Discussing anything with you leads nowhere.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what you’re complaining about?

You love the new product, and are happy with its subscription licence and price. That’s great for you and Topaz. I have no reason to disagree with your decision.

And I don’t, so I won’t be subscribing. Most other people here seem to agree with me. Why do you have a problem with that?
Click to expand...
I'm not complaining. I am just acknowledging that we rarely see eye to eye so all discussions between us lead nowhere.
 
Adam2 said:
tbcass said:
Adam2 said:
Member said:
ple haven't even tried the new product. They just hate the subscription model.
Click to expand...
Yes, we hate the subscription model and no, people can't "try" the new product since Topaz won't offer a trial period or refund. Your claims are getting tired and why don't you put up some examples rather than bloviating?
Click to expand...
Before
Before

After processing with Topaz Photo.
After processing with Topaz Photo.

I have filed a complaint against you for your rudeness.
Click to expand...
As opposed to your rudeness? Users are posting valid concerns about a wholesale turn by a company who produces software they commonly use. You've been dismissive, rude, and have provided no substantiation for your outlandish assertions regarding Topaz Photo. I believe the majority of users would agree with my observations.
Click to expand...
No acknowledgement on how much Topaz Photo improved the above examples as you requested.

--
Tom
 
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