Modern Voigtlander Z-native lenses on the 45 Mp bodies (Z9, Z8 etc)

Not expecting problems but I'm interested to hear your experiences if you use any of the Voigtlander Z series lenses on the Z9 or other 45 Mp Nikon bodies. I don't mean handling-wise as IMO everything handles well on a Z9, but purely from the point of view of image quality.

Why I ask is I sense these very nice retro-style but modern optics lenses are intended largely to match the 24 Mp Zf retro-styled camera in particular. How do you find them when facing the harsher 45 Mp examination in Rooms Z8 and Z9? My guess is that they are absolutely fine but it would be nice to hear for sure! In question are 28 and 75 f/1.5 Nokton asphericals and the 40 f/1.2 Nokton aspherical. Also possibly the 15 f/4.5 Super-Wide-Heliar, which I believe is much improved since the early mk.1 version (which may have been for a different body mount; I'm just not sure).

Not for 24MP bodies only, check this review on Z7 of the 50 f/2 Apo Lanthar.

https://photographylife.com/reviews/voigtlander-50mm-f-2-apo-lanthar-ii

It's a winner re optical performance, on par with best out there or better.







--
Renato.
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Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

I have used the CZ Nokton 28/1.5 on Z8 and currently own the CZ 35/2 Apo plus the CZ 15/4.5. All have been used on 45 MP bodies, in my case Z7II and Z8.

I didn't like the CZ 28/1.5 and returned it after 100 test shots. It was very sharp in the center (Z8), visibly less-sharp at the edges of 24x36. Kind of an old-fashioned look. Might look great on film. I recommend buying it with an option to return it.

The 35/2 Apo is by now well known. It absolutely performs well on 45MP, IMO.

The 15/4.5 is still new to me. It is good on 45MP. Perhaps my Z14-24/2.8 gives a more optimized sharp look from center to edge. The CZ 15/4.5 is a unique lens for Z--the excellent distortion correction and heavy illumination falloff resemble the old Super Angulon-type symmetrical super-wide lenses used on 4x5 cameras and the Super Angulon 21/3.4 M lens used on Leicas. One reviewer claimed that the CZ 15/4.5 is actually a symmetrical optical design like those old Super Angulons, but I can't tell from looking at the schematic diagrams. It certainly images in the style of the old symmetrical wides of yesteryear.

--
-Keith B-

On the 15f4.5, for good corner sharpness at 45mp it needs f8 ideally. Also DxO's lens profiling is vastly superior to the others for that lens, it makes a big difference. Otherwise great lens, super compact, good contrast and flare resistance.

Funny you should ask. I have the 35/2, 50/2 and the 65/2 ALs. Here are three images of the same scene with all three. I'm comfortable they are class-leading:

ContaxComeBack said:

Not expecting problems but I'm interested to hear your experiences if you use any of the Voigtlander Z series lenses on the Z9 or other 45 Mp Nikon bodies. I don't mean handling-wise as IMO everything handles well on a Z9, but purely from the point of view of image quality.

Why I ask is I sense these very nice retro-style but modern optics lenses are intended largely to match the 24 Mp Zf retro-styled camera in particular. How do you find them when facing the harsher 45 Mp examination in Rooms Z8 and Z9? My guess is that they are absolutely fine but it would be nice to hear for sure! In question are 28 and 75 f/1.5 Nokton asphericals and the 40 f/1.2 Nokton aspherical. Also possibly the 15 f/4.5 Super-Wide-Heliar, which I believe is much improved since the early mk.1 version (which may have been for a different body mount; I'm just not sure).

Click to expand...

Here are some samples with the Voigtländer 50/1. I also have now ordered the 40/1.2.
I own a Z6III and a Z8. It‘s working fine with both of them.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68447576

Best
Michael

ContaxComeBack said:

Not expecting problems but I'm interested to hear your experiences if you use any of the Voigtlander Z series lenses on the Z9 or other 45 Mp Nikon bodies. I don't mean handling-wise as IMO everything handles well on a Z9, but purely from the point of view of image quality.

Why I ask is I sense these very nice retro-style but modern optics lenses are intended largely to match the 24 Mp Zf retro-styled camera in particular. How do you find them when facing the harsher 45 Mp examination in Rooms Z8 and Z9? My guess is that they are absolutely fine but it would be nice to hear for sure! In question are 28 and 75 f/1.5 Nokton asphericals and the 40 f/1.2 Nokton aspherical. Also possibly the 15 f/4.5 Super-Wide-Heliar, which I believe is much improved since the early mk.1 version (which may have been for a different body mount; I'm just not sure).

Click to expand...

I have the 35mm and 65mm APO-Lanthar, and also the 40mm f/1.2 Nokton. They are all very, very good and resolve the 45 megapixels very well. My only complaint is that the non-APO-Lanthars display some chromatic aberrations wide open, which is stopping me from pursuing the 28mm f/1.5, waiting for an APO-Lanthar Z mount version.

Here are some 40mm f/1.2 examples (and you can also check my Voigtlander gallery) :













Here are some 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar examples to compare (more in this gallery):











--
@TheSoaringSprite

pluton said:

I have used the CZ Nokton 28/1.5 on Z8 and currently own the CZ 35/2 Apo plus the CZ 15/4.5. All have been used on 45 MP bodies, in my case Z7II and Z8.

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Good to know this.

pluton said:

I didn't like the CZ 28/1.5 and returned it after 100 test shots. It was very sharp in the center (Z8), visibly less-sharp at the edges of 24x36. Kind of an old-fashioned look. Might look great on film. I recommend buying it with an option to return it.

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Thanks for the tip; I will bear that in mind.

pluton said:

The 35/2 Apo is by now well known. It absolutely performs well on 45MP, IMO.

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Yes. I decided against the APOs a while ago as I quite like the dual personality of the Nokton 40 & 75 split between wide open and a stop or two closed down.

pluton said:

The 15/4.5 is still new to me. It is good on 45MP. Perhaps my Z14-24/2.8 gives a more optimized sharp look from center to edge. The CZ 15/4.5 is a unique lens for Z--the excellent distortion correction and heavy illumination falloff resemble the old Super Angulon-type symmetrical super-wide lenses used on 4x5 cameras and the Super Angulon 21/3.4 M lens used on Leicas. One reviewer claimed that the CZ 15/4.5 is actually a symmetrical optical design like those old Super Angulons, but I can't tell from looking at the schematic diagrams. It certainly images in the style of the old symmetrical wides of yesteryear.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. Despite being a bit ambivalent about lenses wider than 24mm actually some of my best shots have been with a pre-aspherical 21mm Elmarit-M, now long sold but missed. I have seen some good work by two photographers using the CV 15/4.5 lens. What I'd really like is a 24/25mm CV for Z but I can't see them making one. What with a 28mm released I daresay the next widest, if any is produced, will be a 20/21mm.

Thank you very much for this info and the great pictures to evaluate. Helpful that you included the Nokton 40mm to view against the Apo-Lanthar shots, as the 40 Nokton (and 75) are the ones I am most interested in.

ContaxComeBack said:

Yes. I decided against the APOs a while ago as I quite like the dual personality of the Nokton 40 & 75 split between wide open and a stop or two closed down.

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same here, i have both Nokton lenses 40mm f/1.2 and 75mm f/1.5. they are super and perform really well with the Z7 II and the Z8.

buildingsights said:

ContaxComeBack said:

Yes. I decided against the APOs a while ago as I quite like the dual personality of the Nokton 40 & 75 split between wide open and a stop or two closed down.

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same here, i have both Nokton lenses 40mm f/1.2 and 75mm f/1.5. they are super and perform really well with the Z7 II and the Z8.

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Good news; this is what I wanted to hear, especially about those same two lenses!

pluton said:

... ... I didn't like the CZ 28/1.5 and returned it after 100 test shots. It was very sharp in the center (Z8), visibly less-sharp at the edges of 24x36. Kind of an old-fashioned look. Might look great on film. I recommend buying it with an option to return it ... ...

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I wonder if you have seen or would like to look at the following review (link below) on phillipreeve.net — it compares several fast 28mm lenses.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/comparison-fast-28mm-f-1-2-f-1-4-f-1-5-fullframe-lenses/

I'd be interested if the findings in that review on the 28/1.5 Leica M-fit lens, released I imagine quite some time before the recent CV Z 28/1.5 you tried, chime with your experience on the CV Z. I ask because I actually happen to have kept my AF-S 28/1.4E that also features in the same review. It is a great lens - just a bit big even without the FTZ II adapter. A great shame that being an E not G lens it won't stop down on my F5 which I still use occasionally.

Did you ever shoot with the Nikkor Ai or Ai-S 24/2.8 or 28/2 or 28/2.8 or 35/1.4? If so, would you say the CV Z 28 you returned after 100 test shots gave a similar kind of result to any of those?

Thanks!

ContaxComeBack said:

pluton said:

... ... I didn't like the CZ 28/1.5 and returned it after 100 test shots. It was very sharp in the center (Z8), visibly less-sharp at the edges of 24x36. Kind of an old-fashioned look. Might look great on film. I recommend buying it with an option to return it ... ...

Click to expand...

I wonder if you have seen or would like to look at the following review (link below) on phillipreeve.net — it compares several fast 28mm lenses.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/comparison-fast-28mm-f-1-2-f-1-4-f-1-5-fullframe-lenses/

I'd be interested if the findings in that review on the 28/1.5 Leica M-fit lens, released I imagine quite some time before the recent CV Z 28/1.5 you tried, chime with your experience on the CV Z. I ask because I actually happen to have kept my AF-S 28/1.4E that also features in the same review. It is a great lens - just a bit big even without the FTZ II adapter. A great shame that being an E not G lens it won't stop down on my F5 which I still use occasionally.

Did you ever shoot with the Nikkor Ai or Ai-S 24/2.8 or 28/2 or 28/2.8 or 35/1.4? If so, would you say the CV Z 28 you returned after 100 test shots gave a similar kind of result to any of those?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

The VZ 28/1.5 was new on the market at the time, so there weren't any reviews to read on the Z mount version. I looked at the linked review by BastianK just now to refresh my memory of it.

I have found that the online photo samples are not necessarily predictive of actual lens imaging.

The copy of the Z mount VZ 28/1.5 (tested on a Z8) that I got had blurrier edges than the results from the M-mount one depicted in Bastian's review. (My subjects were buildings and cars parked across a four lane street, and a [no glass] high window view of buildings at 2-3 miles away. Tripod, of course. The most disliked feature of my Z mount VZ 28/1.5 was a strange, omnipresent magenta color fringing, that was bad wide open and required f/8 to go away. I have never shot with a lens that did that. Even my Vivitar 28/2.8 from 1969 doesn't do that. Note: I always test at infinity and large object distances first, because if I can't use it for a long-distance views (landscape, cityscape, etc) I'm not interested in the lens.

I am perpetually tempted to acquire a used copy of the AF-S 28/1.4E for use on an FTZ.

I have shot (on digital) with the following Nikon manual focus 28mm lenses: 28/3.5 K/Ai (old design), 28/3.5 Ai/AiS (updated design), 28/2.8 K/Ai, 28/2.8 AiS, 28/2 N.C (the old metal-grip one) and the 35/1.4 AiS. I haven't yet had a 28/2 AiS...that's another one on my list to eventually acquire. The Nikon 35/1.4 didn't offer me any advantage over my then-new Zeiss ZF 35/2, so I sold it. It would have been smarter to keep it, because it is a good lens.

I've never used any of the Nikon 24mm lenses on digital. I have instead Zeiss ZF 28/2 and ZF.2 25/2.

IF Voigtlander issues it's new 28/2 Apo Lanthar M-mount lens for Z mount, I'll be a-wanting that one, based on the results from the VZ Apo Lanthar 35/2. But I'll still make sure I can return it if there's something about it that I can't live with.

--
-Keith B-

Thank you, Keith B! You certainly have experience of many lenses. Regarding the AF-S 28/1.4E, even though it looks and is big compared with the old-school and M-type lenses, I have to say it is a very comfortable handler even with the FTZ. I do use it on a Z9 though, where it probably makes for a better balance than on say a Zf, for example.

The magenta fringing you mention on the Z CV28/1/5 Nokton was noticeable in the 28 shoot-out article I linked in the last post - on the roof rails of the service engineer white van towards the end of the review.

Yes, the 35/1/4 AiS is quite a special lens. Weird at full aperture but still quite fun. Crazy sharp at f/4 and on and a favourite focal length for me alongside 50 and the short teles.

ContaxComeBack said:

How do you find them when facing the harsher 45 Mp examination in Rooms Z8 and Z9?

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I am not sure what you mean by "harsher".

A lens and a sensor each separately and independently contribute to combined image resolution.

When a higher resolving lens is used, it contribute more to the combined image resolution – and there is more detail in the image.

When a higher resolving sensor – usually one with more MP- is used it contributes more to the combined image resolution and (just as with a higher resolving lens) there is more detail in the image.

In a perfect world only the best lenses and the best sensors are used together to obtain the highest possible image resolution.

When this is not possible image resolution is a bit lower - though in relation to your specific query image resolution should always be usefully higher with a 45 MP sensor than a 24 MP centre.

While specific testing is needed for each lens and sensor combination, a reasonable starting point expectation at base ISO going from 24 to 45 MP is from about 12.5% more image resolution.

Thanks for the link, great review!

Where are you getting that they are for 24MP bodies only? That's nonsense. For example, basically nothing touches the 50 APO for landscape apertures (and astrophotography).

Leonard Shepherd said:

ContaxComeBack said:

How do you find them when facing the harsher 45 Mp examination in Rooms Z8 and Z9?

Click to expand...

I am not sure what you mean by "harsher".

Click to expand...

I simply mean by 'harsher examination' that the higher resolution sensor will presumably show up shortcomings of a lens more clearly. I know for instance that back three or four years when I shot with a D5 before I had a D850, the D5's 20Mp sensor was more forgiving of some of the older F-mount lenses than the D850. And alongside that the D5 was more forgiving of any poor handholding technique.

We hear quite often of lens upgrades to keep the lens up to scratch for newer sensors: newer Fujifilm X-series primes being a good example as the manufacturer moves from 24 and 26 Mp sensors to 40 Mp ones.

ContaxComeBack said:

Leonard Shepherd said:

I am not sure what you mean by "harsher".

Click to expand...

I simply mean by 'harsher examination' that the higher resolution sensor will presumably show up shortcomings of a lens more clearly.

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If you downsize a higher MP image to a smaller MP image size, or enlarge a smaller MP image to the size of a higher MP image – any shortcomings are recorded as similar.

ContaxComeBack said:

I know for instance that back three or four years when I shot with a D5 before I had a D850, the D5's 20Mp sensor was more forgiving of some of the older F-mount lenses than the D850. And alongside that the D5 was more forgiving of any poor handholding technique.

Click to expand...

Perhaps what you are indirectly saying that the more you enlarge subject detail the more any equipment or technique limitations become apparent.

ContaxComeBack said:

We hear quite often

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"We hear" and reality are not always synonymous :-(

ContaxComeBack said:

of lens upgrades to keep the lens up to scratch for newer sensors: newer Fujifilm X-series primes being a good example as the manufacturer moves from 24 and 26 Mp sensors to 40 Mp ones.

Click to expand...

Increasing lens resolution as well as sensor resolution at the same time gets the highest possible image resolution.

Increasing sensor resolution combine with using existing lenses has the in-between benefit of obtaining increased image resolution with existing lenses.

Similarly using a higher resolution lens with an existing sensor has the benefit of increasing image resolution using the existing sensor.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.