NEW FORUM: what's the next step?

I would have to think that if programmers could write code that permitted threading twenty years ago that programmers today should be able to do the same! We have ChatGPT and other forms of Ai. That has to be a lot more difficult to program than a threaded forum structure!
The threaded view was done in the 1990s in part because it was familiar to people who used USENET and the trn newsreader. It was also very simple to implement using CGI protocols which were pretty much the only way of interacting with a web server in the 1990s.
The threaded view is in many ways superior for carrying on sub thread discussions or tracking responses to your posts in threads with a lot of responses. Eliminating it would be a slap in the face to those of us who appreciate its advantages.
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
I agree. And a very old bitter gang is maybe not exactly the future. 😅
The old but bitter gang spend a lot of money on gear.

The old but bitter gang have a lot of photographic knowledge that might be useful to neophytes

Why excise a reliable backbone when, with just a little more work, you can keep them? AND add new users? There's an old saying that fits this: "Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater".

If you read through the responses, nobody is objecting to the need to update the site. That's a given, as technology has moved on since this site was designed. But choosing a design that removes an important usability option is just...dumb. And I understand there is a budget they need to meet, and they made....choices. But they were the wrong ones.

-J
Great but it wasn't generating enough traffic/profits to justify the extra work. The old crew scared away new traffic with overload of info for simple questions and the arguments that ensued.

I guess they are hoping the new design brings in new traffic (along with cheaper, easier maintenance of the forums) and the old gang that sticks around are of cooler heads. shrugs
 
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You should get over it.

It's pretty clear they have a plan that doesn't include threaded view.

Move on.
I can't believe how non empathetic some people are with comments like this.
 
Humans have survived for millennia due to their ability to adapt to almost any situation - - - period
This has to be one of the most inane responses yet.

Participation in an Internet forum is hardly a survival -level activity. It's a reward-level activity.

In other words, if this had anything to do with survival, yup, adaptability is a huge deal. But, for this? It's not an essential component of my existence. If interacting with this site becomes more aggravating than enjoyable, why bother?

-J
Well… that’s you struck off my Christmas card list. lol
 
I personally don't see the fixation on threaded view. I never found it useful personally. Most forums I am a part of use flat view.
Like the fixation people have for preferring dedicated cameras over smartphones. I personally hate forums that use flat view and don't partake in them.

You are new and have posted only 81 posts. If you look, those of us who want threaded view have been DPR members for some time and have a lot of posts. In that time we have learned the advantages of threaded view. If you have used only flat or threaded rarely you couldn't possibly understand.

--
Tom
 
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Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
I agree. And a very old bitter gang is maybe not exactly the future. 😅
The old but bitter gang spend a lot of money on gear.

The old but bitter gang have a lot of photographic knowledge that might be useful to neophytes
Maybe, when they don't scare them away.
Why excise a reliable backbone when, with just a little more work, you can keep them? AND add new users? There's an old saying that fits this: "Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater".
Not exactly babies. If they are not Benjamin Button, though.
If you read through the responses, nobody is objecting to the need to update the site. That's a given, as technology has moved on since this site was designed. But choosing a design that removes an important usability option is just...dumb. And I understand there is a budget they need to meet, and they made....choices. But they were the wrong ones.

-J
I think it will be just fine. Can't wait to see this new forum. 😃
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
Yup, the heck with what they want, take it or leave it. Not the way to keep loyal members.
 
We can keep discussing, but I noticed Dale and Mathew stopped responding ... perhaps recovering from a headache. ;-)
I really don’t think it is a good strategy.

It turns into a battle and all you may obtain is that they will keep their position. It is important they understand that threaded view is a MUST (imho), this feature has to be included from start.

No need for provocation or you will reach the opposite result...

I hope they will delay the new forum until they have included what many members want.
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
The thing is, a lot of prior M43 posters left when they were going to shut down, and are still over in those replacement forums. There's no reason to stay at DPR instead, when those are up and running also. I mean, if the formats are all the same, then there's no reason to preferentially choose DPR to hang out at anymore.

-J
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
The thing is, a lot of prior M43 posters left when they were going to shut down, and are still over in those replacement forums. There's no reason to stay at DPR instead, when those are up and running also. I mean, if the formats are all the same, then there's no reason to preferentially choose DPR to hang out at anymore.

-J
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
Not a very modern option right now, I'm afraid.

--
- M4M
 
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We can keep discussing, but I noticed Dale and Mathew stopped responding ... perhaps recovering from a headache. ;-)
I really don’t think it is a good strategy.

It turns into a battle and all you may obtain is that they will keep their position. It is important they understand that threaded view is a MUST (imho), this feature has to be included from start.

No need for provocation or you will reach the opposite result...

I hope they will delay the new forum until they have included what many members want.
Just to be clear, I am not looking for a battle or provocation (not sure if that is what you meant). Exactly the opposite. I am looking for clarity for the users.

1) I placed a poll to provide useful data.

2) I created this thread in order to get some clear responses from DPReview.

Why? Because there is a lot of discussion going on. This discussion is only useful if we (the users) know if something will happen (or not) based on the outcome.

That is why I asked 3 simple questions in the first post of this thread, to be answered by DPReview. The answers should give clarity to the users whether or not discussing the situation makes sense. It is only fair that DPReview provides clarity as soon as possible.
 
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We can keep discussing, but I noticed Dale and Mathew stopped responding ... perhaps recovering from a headache. ;-)
I really don’t think it is a good strategy.

It turns into a battle and all you may obtain is that they will keep their position. It is important they understand that threaded view is a MUST (imho), this feature has to be included from start.

No need for provocation or you will reach the opposite result...

I hope they will delay the new forum until they have included what many members want.
Just to be clear, I am not looking for a battle or provocation (not sure if that is what you meant).
This is what I meant.

But I am on your side, 100%.

I just understand that it must be really frustrating for them. But whatever, even if this is frustrating , I really hope that they will reach the conclusion that they must absolutely keep this feature. This would be a smart decision.
 
I would have to think that if programmers could write code that permitted threading twenty years ago that programmers today should be able to do the same! We have ChatGPT and other forms of Ai. That has to be a lot more difficult to program than a threaded forum structure!
The threaded view was done in the 1990s in part because it was familiar to people who used USENET and the trn newsreader. It was also very simple to implement using CGI protocols which were pretty much the only way of interacting with a web server in the 1990s.
The threaded view is in many ways superior for carrying on sub thread discussions or tracking responses to your posts in threads with a lot of responses. Eliminating it would be a slap in the face to those of us who appreciate its advantages.
My point wasn’t really about the superiority / inferiority of threaded view, it was that its existence on DPR was probably more to do with the technology of the day than a positive design decision. Starting from a clean slate there may well be other, better, ways a facilitating discussions. (I don’t know what the proposed solution is like for that - I would expect that the cost of maintaining a custom piece of software in the current DPR is probably a bigger factor).

My understanding is that DPR started with a threaded view and then a flat view was added later ? I suspect that may be for the quote mountain effect that flat view can have. Other systems (e.g. Reddit) manage threaded messages in a much cleaner way.
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
The thing is, a lot of prior M43 posters left when they were going to shut down, and are still over in those replacement forums. There's no reason to stay at DPR instead, when those are up and running also. I mean, if the formats are all the same, then there's no reason to preferentially choose DPR to hang out at anymore.

-J
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
Not a very modern option right now, I'm afraid.
Why is being modern important?
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
The thing is, a lot of prior M43 posters left when they were going to shut down, and are still over in those replacement forums. There's no reason to stay at DPR instead, when those are up and running also. I mean, if the formats are all the same, then there's no reason to preferentially choose DPR to hang out at anymore.

-J
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
Not a very modern option right now, I'm afraid.
Why is being modern important?
In order to survive. Forums these days have to be able to compete with modern social media.
 
Is that most of the users who post that they prefer flat view have posted here very, very, few times. Most of the users who prefer threaded are the regular repeat users who have posted thousands of times over the years.

The thing is: Which users does DPR consider most valuable? New, transitory, eyes on the pages, or the reliable old crew? I mean, ideally they would want to keep both, but that's not going to happen. But I think they should really understand who they will lose vs who they will gain, and not just "hope" it will be ok.

-J
I think they are banking on most of those old users still sticking around. I bet that is what happens too because most won't fit into the other forums out there.
The thing is, a lot of prior M43 posters left when they were going to shut down, and are still over in those replacement forums. There's no reason to stay at DPR instead, when those are up and running also. I mean, if the formats are all the same, then there's no reason to preferentially choose DPR to hang out at anymore.

-J
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
Not a very modern option right now, I'm afraid.
Why is being modern important?
Well. Some like new and modern cameras. Some also like modern phones. Some like to update their software every so often. I guess it is just a preference. Like someone prefers "threaded view". 😃 But it is also important for this site to be competitive.

--
- M4M
 
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The yes/no poll, at this moment, shows 45% want threaded, not exactly an overwhelming majority.

Another poll, the age poll, shows the biggest group here is the over 70 crowd.

How many of them do you suppose will be around after the next 10 years? DPR is going to lose a lot of members no matter what they do.

Set up a poll based on age, the over 50 crowd vs. the under 50, and see how the numbers set up.

Myself? I'm neutral. I'm in that 70+ crowd and don't plan on being here 10 years from now.

--
Those who say it cannot be done
should stay out of the way of
those who are doing it.
 
Why is being modern important?
In order to survive. Forums these days have to be able to compete with modern social media.
How would allowing flat view as an option hurt DPR's ability to compete? Even with the old format DPR is one of the if not the most popular photography forum on the internet. Nobody cares if it's not "modern".
 
Maybe they liked the format better there, and will come back when we get a better format here too. 😊
If they like flat view they have that option here.
Not a very modern option right now, I'm afraid.
Why is being modern important?
Well. Some like new and modern cameras. Some also like modern phones. Some like to update their software every so often. I guess it is just a preference. Like someone prefers "threaded view". 😃 But it is also important for this site to be competitive.
Having Threaded view as an option would make DPR more competitive not less. Even with "old-fashioned" software it is possibly the most popular pure photography forum on the internet among serious photographers. I certainly don't want an influx of Instagram users here.

--
Tom
 
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The yes/no poll, at this moment, shows 45% want threaded, not exactly an overwhelming majority.

Another poll, the age poll, shows the biggest group here is the over 70 crowd.

How many of them do you suppose will be around after the next 10 years? DPR is going to lose a lot of members no matter what they do.

Set up a poll based on age, the over 50 crowd vs. the under 50, and see how the numbers set up.

Myself? I'm neutral. I'm in that 70+ crowd and don't plan on being here 10 years from now.
Even if 20% wanted threaded view it would be enough to include it as an option.
 

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