Y'all might want to weigh in on this

DPR ought to value a view on flat vs threaded views, especially from people active enough to vote.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68445816

A
I haven't been on Dpr long enough.

Still clear Dpr doesn't value the input of the community. This is reason Dpr went ahead and did what it did foisting the changes by not consulting the community, whilst saying they are doing this for the community.

It would be as changing Dpr staffs roles without telling them then foisting the changes upon Dpr staff.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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If you stay, just endure it. You have no say so it is useless to complain. The only alternative is to leave, if you don't like something. Oh, Whoop!

Already tonight I'm finding it very difficult to navigate on these forums. Maybe it's my computer. maybe not. First frustration sets in, then us old guys leave. Note; The ads are pure bull----! I certainly would never buy ANYTHING from them - ever!
 
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I have voted, yesterday. I am disappointed in the low number of votes though Andrew. Perhaps people are not voting because it is already a done deal!!!

I replied to a reply by Dale Baskin in the Open Talk thread. You can see that reply here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68446698

God knows you would be unlikely to see it in that thread, regardless of flat or threaded view.

I may still visit DPR to see what is happening but doubt very much that my participation here will continue in any significant way. 51 652 posts before this one and most in a forum for long discontinued hardware. DPR was seriously harmed by Amazon's closure announcement. It may have done better if the announcement had never been made and they looked for and found a buyer instead of doing it the way they did. Water under the bridge now. The new changes I do not see bringing enough new viewers to compensate for the number of contributors that they will lose with the loss of threaded view. New features may be possible with the change that they were never able to do with the older coding. Frankly those changes don't matter to me as much as the threaded view does.

Andrew
If we look at the young ages of Dpr staff, several from social media influencer generation, they are looking to attract younger ages to Dpr forums.

This also means putting out to pasture older fogies as us.

+

Xenforo forums will also have ads on every page. As they are on various other xenforo forums.

Dpr staff know they have to keep their jobs which is understandable. Yet how to pay for their salaries.

Advertising on forums certainly contributes.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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That is what I expect. I wish they were honest about the reality of what is driving the change. I don't buy their number on threaded vs flat. I don't see a need to constantly be tinkering with code other than to make it more palatable to twitter/facebook types, or other platforms I have no time for or to add more ads.

I have a feeling of despair at the moment. When they hired Matthew Anderson I suspected something was afoot. Something of this nature to be exact. The lack of transparency at this site continues in my opinion.

Andrew
 
If we look at the young ages of Dpr staff, several from social media influencer generation, they are looking to attract younger ages to Dpr forums.

This also means putting out to pasture older fogies as us.

+

Xenforo forums will also have ads on every page. As they are on various other xenforo forums.

Dpr staff know they have to keep their jobs which is understandable. Yet how to pay for their salaries.

Advertising on forums certainly contributes.
Advertising depends on eyeball count. I'm hoping the eyeball count drops enough to let them know they've made a big mistake. By then of course it will be too late.
 
Note; The ads are pure bull----! I certainly would never buy ANYTHING from them - ever!
Of course they would prefer to have you click on one of their ads, that's direct feedback about effectiveness. But advertising works even if you never click on anything. It makes you familiar with the products the advertiser is peddling, so you're more likely to buy it later.

I think I bought one item from an ad here, a clever sweatshirt for my wife.
 
If we look at the young ages of Dpr staff, several from social media influencer generation, they are looking to attract younger ages to Dpr forums.

This also means putting out to pasture older fogies as us.

+

Xenforo forums will also have ads on every page. As they are on various other xenforo forums.

Dpr staff know they have to keep their jobs which is understandable. Yet how to pay for their salaries.

Advertising on forums certainly contributes.
Advertising depends on eyeball count. I'm hoping the eyeball count drops enough to let them know they've made a big mistake. By then of course it will be too late.
Well, Guy's age poll on the MFT forum shows me remaining at the modal MFT forum voter age band over ten years - now 70. Judging by many posts here across forums, we are weighted towards older stills shooters.

Now that some younger people are moving beyond phones to digital (and film) cameras, maybe this is a strategic move to the style of engagement that people in their 20s - 30s prefer. Moving to a 3rd party platform reduces some strategic risks and builds in others.

In that case a dip in engagement might be acceptable if it reduces the risk of DPR dying with its members and then recovers over a year or two.

I'm fascinated to see whether DPR aims to remain informed content driven or more about "influencers". I suspect people who spend serious money on photo kit have a higher proportion of content driven players than typical.

I guess we will all discover whether the new DPR suits our personal style of engagement and DPR will discover whether the content continues to drive high hits from internet searches.

TL:DR Putting the platform on a more sustainable basis makes sense, but I hope the design is driven by outcomes and expertise not the whims of a team.

A
 
That is what I expect. I wish they were honest about the reality of what is driving the change. I don't buy their number on threaded vs flat. I don't see a need to constantly be tinkering with code other than to make it more palatable to twitter/facebook types, or other platforms I have no time for or to add more ads.

I have a feeling of despair at the moment. When they hired Matthew Anderson I suspected something was afoot. Something of this nature to be exact. The lack of transparency at this site continues in my opinion.

Andrew
Much about predictable coming priorities and goals has been pretty inferrable since the site's most recent ownership change, from basic research about the site's new owners after the DPR was purchased (which, we'll recall, did enable it to continue).

More indicators of future priorities and goals is indicated in the researchable professional bio, of DPR's new "Community Manager," as well as his statements here, in the long intro thread on his arrival. Weirdly, DPR's announcement did not include a writeup on his professional bio, and nor does the "Staff Profile" page here, which contains only a couple of sentences and his "Gear Patrol" email address. Which is odd, because a summary of professional history is usually a basic. But it's public information, and there's indicators there.

Mr. Anderson is not just a specialist at interface with site members and the public. He is a site content brand development and brand enhancing specialist. He was hired to develop content that will help develop and enhance the DPR brand in a manner aligned with "broader company strategies," i.e., as desired by DPR's new ownership entity.

In the long intro thread for Mr. Anderson at the "Open" subforum, he shared:

>>>That he and DPR have "a long-term plan to attract more community members who love talking about digital photography."

>>>That he and DPR will "work together on running content creator programs, influencer engagement, events and contests, livestreams perhaps, and all that other fun stuff."

>>>That he and DPR "want to reach out to younger demographics and draw them here as well if we can[.]"

Put that together with basic research on DPR's owner entity and you have indicators about what priorities are driving changes. This has been foreseeable since the ownership change. It's just taken a while for things to get going.

In my professional experience with re-vamps and re-designs in media contexts as well as as a forum user at different sites, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. All you can do is watch and wait. After which you get to decide if the advent of "content creator programs" or "influencer engagement," or whatever, is a deal-breaker for you. It might be or it might not be.

In my experience with these forks in the road, a lot of eye-rolling changes are easily ignored, and enough enjoyable core features remain that you can "Take What You Like and Leave the Rest." Not always. But often enough to hold off on pessimism and see how it goes.
 
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Note; The ads are pure bull----! I certainly would never buy ANYTHING from them - ever!
Of course they would prefer to have you click on one of their ads, that's direct feedback about effectiveness. But advertising works even if you never click on anything. It makes you familiar with the products the advertiser is peddling, so you're more likely to buy it later.

I think I bought one item from an ad here, a clever sweatshirt for my wife.
I was intrigued by the ads for furniture in Dutch but the system seems to be somewhat closer to my interests today. So far, my favourite products are better than the ad offers, but you never know.

The ad delivery has improved to the point where I no longer actively hate the products because the ads are so intrusive.

A
 
This gnashing of teeth is hilarious; really true you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
 
This gnashing of teeth is hilarious; really true you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
No, you just haven't been around enough to realize that threading is a valuable asset to those who are interested in actually interacting with other people and gleaning more information out of a discussion than you'd get on the latest Google AI of the subject.

But, hey, if hit and run is your thing, then it will be AWESOME.

-J
 
No, you just haven't been around enough to realize that threading is a valuable asset to those who are interested in actually interacting with other people and gleaning more information out of a discussion than you'd get on the latest Google AI of the subject.

But, hey, if hit and run is your thing, then it will be AWESOME.

-J
Once again, my previous accounts:



I've been in forums since Matt's WWWBoard forum was a thing. And yes, that used threaded too. Reddit is threaded too, so it's not like I'm not used to it. But I can use modern flat style just fine as well; mu-43 has a number of fine posters and I don't see any dip in content. In fact, maybe it has a wee fewer stubborn old men so it's actually a little bit more pleasant.
 
No, you just haven't been around enough to realize that threading is a valuable asset to those who are interested in actually interacting with other people and gleaning more information out of a discussion than you'd get on the latest Google AI of the subject.

But, hey, if hit and run is your thing, then it will be AWESOME.

-J
Once again, my previous accounts:

https://www.dpreview.com/members/0673692425/overview

https://www.dpreview.com/members/6077770769/overview

I've been in forums since Matt's WWWBoard forum was a thing. And yes, that used threaded too. Reddit is threaded too, so it's not like I'm not used to it. But I can use modern flat style just fine as well; mu-43 has a number of fine posters and I don't see any dip in content. In fact, maybe it has a wee fewer stubborn old men so it's actually a little bit more pleasant.
If you dislike DPR forums so much, why post here?

I mean, three accounts? And very few posts? And half of them are snarks at other users?

Geez.
 
That is a big issue for me I actively dislike the flat view . I find it to be cumbersome to follow threads especially threads with lots of comments :-(
I always use flat view; I consider this a feature. Maybe it'll incentive posters to not create huge ass topics, and instead break down to smaller, more relevant topics instead.
Yeah, sure, members are reviewing this thread :

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

that has over 500 replies using Flat View & each & every reply is easily viewable & connected.

Perhaps Dale Baskin would be so good as to make access to this thread only in Flat View.





7198a7d35d2c4937b925ef0ff1233137.jpg.png
 
Yeah, sure, members are reviewing this thread :

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

that has over 500 replies using Flat View & each & every reply is easily viewable & connected.

Perhaps Dale Baskin would be so good as to make access to this thread only in Flat View.

7198a7d35d2c4937b925ef0ff1233137.jpg.png
It defaults to flat view, but you can easily switch it back to threaded. That's the first thing I did.

I suppose making it flat view only would cut down on the number of posts from people who hate flat view?
 
Yeah, sure, members are reviewing this thread :

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

that has over 500 replies using Flat View & each & every reply is easily viewable & connected.

Perhaps Dale Baskin would be so good as to make access to this thread only in Flat View.

7198a7d35d2c4937b925ef0ff1233137.jpg.png
It defaults to flat view, but you can easily switch it back to threaded. That's the first thing I did.

I suppose making it flat view only would cut down on the number of posts from people who hate flat view?
Actually Mark, I use Threaded View, as I much prefer to have an overview of the way a topic is being handled within a thread.

My wish to Dale Baskin to make this particular thread Flat was to prove to all those who prefer Flat View to realise just how impossible it would be to make any sense from over 500 replies this thread has.

Threaded View allows one to skip over uninteresting replies as this short example shows here.

We both know how useless Flat View would be in this instance.

Cheers.

Martin

a37bc5108a754000ae569d84812bdb49.jpg
 
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I have to say I'm surprised at the intensity of the unhappiness about the disappearance of threaded view. I don't use it here but I used it in the past when it was more dominant in the earlier era of discussion forums. I don't particularly like it because the post titles often do not reflect the real status of that post or the discussion and I find it wearisome to keep clicking to find out where the thread actually is. But when threaded has been the only option I've used it fine despite not being fond of it. That would be my assumption about the change here, and I'm surprised at how worked up people are. I understand people having a preference. What I don't understand is, people saying it's a deal-breaker for them and they'd stop using the forums over its disappearance. Very surprised by that.
 
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

Since M43 is about the most active forum on DPR, I think folks should take a look at some planned changes to the DPR fourms that are apparently in the pipe, that were posted by the Admins on the Open Talk forum.

BIG changes...but no more threading.

Sigh
I like threads. I never use flat view.

I can just as well quit DPReview. I spend far too much time here anyway (since 2004!). In a way, I may end up tipping my hat to DPReview management for making this change.

Next: Giving up my iPhone (or any phone).


James
 
"Well, that escalated quickly."
 
I have to say I'm surprised at the intensity of the unhappiness about the disappearance of threaded view. I don't use it here but I used it in the past when it was more dominant in the earlier era of discussion forums. I don't particularly like it because the post titles often do not reflect the real status of that post or the discussion and I find it wearisome to keep clicking to find out where the thread actually is. But when threaded has been the only option I've used it fine despite not being fond of it. That would be my assumption about the change here, and I'm surprised at how worked up people are. I understand people having a preference. What I don't understand is, people saying it's a deal-breaker for them and they'd stop using the forums over its disappearance. Very surprised by that.
I personally prefer the flat view. Only use the thread view sometimes when the nested quotes become a problem and it's hard to dig through. This is an artifact of this forum software. Other forums I participate in, the quotes are not nested and you can hide them.

Also you can click the name of the quoted person and it jumps to that post in those other forums. You can't do that here. And in the mobile version it doesn't show the "in reply to" so you can't easily click to go up through the conversation either (which is the use case for threaded).

I think with a more modern forum software, threaded view isn't going to be as necessary as it seems to some people.
 
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