Tango 55
Senior Member
Pretty positive comments in general.
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Michel van Lint
Senior Member
Thank you for sharing!
I liked how happy he seems and also how good the camera performs
Tango 55
Senior Member
My pleasure, Michel. Robin is a good guy and a good photographer, so I regularly watch his videos.
DougOB
Senior Member
On a side note I saw a review of the GR IV yesterday where the reviewer did not like it. However almost all the comments were generic about GR cameras, i.e., why does it have to be so small?, why not a zoom lens?, etc. Basically nothing useful with regards to the GR IV, simply that the reviewer would not be happy with any GR camera.
So basically you see a couple of different types of reviews: 1) from a camera brand agnostic reviewer who says that this is a pretty good camera (or not); or 2) from a GR enthusiast who says the GR IV is a useful update (or not).
FWIW
Cheers,
Doug
So basically you see a couple of different types of reviews: 1) from a camera brand agnostic reviewer who says that this is a pretty good camera (or not); or 2) from a GR enthusiast who says the GR IV is a useful update (or not).
FWIW
Cheers,
Doug
Michel van Lint
Senior Member
I prefer the more positive mindsetOn a side note I saw a review of the GR IV yesterday where the reviewer did not like it. However almost all the comments were generic about GR cameras, i.e., why does it have to be so small?, why not a zoom lens?, etc. Basically nothing useful with regards to the GR IV, simply that the reviewer would not be happy with any GR camera.
So basically you see a couple of different types of reviews: 1) from a camera brand agnostic reviewer who says that this is a pretty good camera (or not); or 2) from a GR enthusiast who says the GR IV is a useful update (or not).
FWIW
Cheers,
Doug
There is already enough complaining as is.
No camera is for all anyway. I would also like a zoom, but find that if you need to work around something that you consider to be a limitation, it actually makes you "stronger". That said, I love wide angle and I don't feel the fixed 28 mm is a limitation.
Nice overview.
Though I disagree with his comment about snap focus being a poor excuse for poor autofocus. Complete nonsense, as AF and zone focus each have different use cases. If you want a certain range of the scene in focus or even hyperfocal distance, even the fastest AF in the world doesn’t help a bit with that as it has nothing to do with depth of field.
So, great that Ricoh of course kept that „poor excuse“ and even gave Sn mode its own place on the mode dial. Snap focus and a fast AF for sure are a great combination for a wide range of different subjects.
Tango 55
Senior Member
I fully agree with you. I use AF and zone-focusing under very different situations, and I need both.
They did make a zoom once - it was the GX100 and GX200. I had the GX100 which was basically the GRD of the day adapted for a zoom lens. Was a quite capable little camera body. They still might be found for sale second hand. There was also the "R" series which peaked around R3/4. I had the R4 - the later "R's" through to the R10 were more like polished point'n'shoots of some capability. But the earlier R4 looked like the usual cheap version but worked like a rocket ship compared to its rivals on the market. A very capable camera that carried in its belt holster everywhere around the "farm". Even on tractor when mowing. I sometimes had to blow out the dust from its "holster" with a dust buster. But the R4 kept on keeping on. Still works the dear old battered thing.I prefer the more positive mindsetOn a side note I saw a review of the GR IV yesterday where the reviewer did not like it. However almost all the comments were generic about GR cameras, i.e., why does it have to be so small?, why not a zoom lens?, etc. Basically nothing useful with regards to the GR IV, simply that the reviewer would not be happy with any GR camera.
So basically you see a couple of different types of reviews: 1) from a camera brand agnostic reviewer who says that this is a pretty good camera (or not); or 2) from a GR enthusiast who says the GR IV is a useful update (or not).
FWIW
Cheers,
Doug
There is already enough complaining as is.
No camera is for all anyway. I would also like a zoom, but find that if you need to work around something that you consider to be a limitation, it actually makes you "stronger". That said, I love wide angle and I don't feel the fixed 28 mm is a limitation.
Then Ricoh tried a number of zoom modules for the not much larger GXR concept. The oddly specified 15.7-55.5/3.5-5.5 zoom module was a strange lump of a module but made excellent images in the usual Ricoh fashion.
Would be 23-83/3.5-5.5 if recognised in the usual Ricoh FF fov terms. A large lens that did not collapse (but actually extended when switched on) and quite a lot of effort went into keeping its weight down. Gives some idea of just how large a longer zoom lens might be it it became an alternative body for the GR with fixed zoom of similar capabilities.
Tango 55
Senior Member
Zooms are not appealing to me, even if use them every now and then. I would prefer a camera larger than the GR, with a fixed 28mm (eq) lens (f/2 would be nice), a good EVF and a tilt screen. Needless to say, this would be in addition to the GR line, which has its own appeal.They did make a zoom once - it was the GX100 and GX200. I had the GX100 which was basically the GRD of the day adapted for a zoom lens. Was a quite capable little camera body. They still might be found for sale second hand. There was also the "R" series which peaked around R3/4. I had the R4 - the later "R's" through to the R10 were more like polished point'n'shoots of some capability. But the earlier R4 looked like the usual cheap version but worked like a rocket ship compared to its rivals on the market. A very capable camera that carried in its belt holster everywhere around the "farm". Even on tractor when mowing. I sometimes had to blow out the dust from its "holster" with a dust buster. But the R4 kept on keeping on. Still works the dear old battered thing.I prefer the more positive mindsetOn a side note I saw a review of the GR IV yesterday where the reviewer did not like it. However almost all the comments were generic about GR cameras, i.e., why does it have to be so small?, why not a zoom lens?, etc. Basically nothing useful with regards to the GR IV, simply that the reviewer would not be happy with any GR camera.
So basically you see a couple of different types of reviews: 1) from a camera brand agnostic reviewer who says that this is a pretty good camera (or not); or 2) from a GR enthusiast who says the GR IV is a useful update (or not).
FWIW
Cheers,
Doug
There is already enough complaining as is.
No camera is for all anyway. I would also like a zoom, but find that if you need to work around something that you consider to be a limitation, it actually makes you "stronger". That said, I love wide angle and I don't feel the fixed 28 mm is a limitation.
Then Ricoh tried a number of zoom modules for the not much larger GXR concept. The oddly specified 15.7-55.5/3.5-5.5 zoom module was a strange lump of a module but made excellent images in the usual Ricoh fashion.
Would be 23-83/3.5-5.5 if recognised in the usual Ricoh FF fov terms. A large lens that did not collapse (but actually extended when switched on) and quite a lot of effort went into keeping its weight down. Gives some idea of just how large a longer zoom lens might be it it became an alternative body for the GR with fixed zoom of similar capabilities.
What I described would sell very well, I think, if they also make an "X" version with a longer focal length.
The quality end Ricoh zooms never seemed to light many fires. But the did make 28mm and 50mm prime modules for the GXR which were well received. 15.7-55.5mm zoom also might be precision definition but it hardly rolls off the tongue But it is not a bad lens really - just huge and dominates the GXR body. I am pretty sure that it was the last module made for the GXR system.
Ricoh also has avoided built in evf and tilting lcd in their compact lines like the plague.
Arguably a built in evf might be a first with a completely re-vamped compact camera body to succeed the GRIV - if the GRDIV was the pinnacle of the GRD series then perhaps the GRIV might represent the GR "perfected"?
But they are still at a loss for a proper ML mount system to use - the Q-mount is hardly useful. I did see a post many years ago copying a Chinese site scoop that referred to a PK mount that collapsed to a shorter flange focal length. I think that the general idea was to run a shorter flange focal length of PK lenses for ML bodies and allow older PK lenses still automatically adaptable. A curious solution that never made any purchase as no more was ever heard of it.
But it is not a bad lens really - just huge and dominates the GXR body. I am pretty sure that it was the last module made for the GXR system.Ricoh also has avoided built in evf and tilting lcd in their compact lines like the plague.
Arguably a built in evf might be a first with a completely re-vamped compact camera body to succeed the GRIV - if the GRDIV was the pinnacle of the GRD series then perhaps the GRIV might represent the GR "perfected"?
But they are still at a loss for a proper ML mount system to use - the Q-mount is hardly useful. I did see a post many years ago copying a Chinese site scoop that referred to a PK mount that collapsed to a shorter flange focal length. I think that the general idea was to run a shorter flange focal length of PK lenses for ML bodies and allow older PK lenses still automatically adaptable. A curious solution that never made any purchase as no more was ever heard of it.
Arguably the GRD series with smaller sensor had a deeper fov that made snap focusing more useful with less need to be precise over the focal length in use.
Sure. But where is the problem with snap focus on a GR? Especially with the 28mm equiv. version you easily achieve even hyperfocal distances without having to stop down that much. And if you want you can let the camera do all the work in snap distance priority mode.
I never melded with the snap focus function myself - despite being a GRD enthusiast from its very first days. The GRD was sensor-inherently more suited to snap focus but not doubt the GR was made more suitable by Ricoh's usual refinements. If I remember correctly the snap distance priority came in as far back as the GRDIII. I gave my GRDIII to a son considering that the GRDIV (which I felt that I had to have) was the full house final high-tech version of the small-sensor GRD series. *
I agree that snap focus will work with the GR and aps-c sensor it is just that it is just a little bit harder than it was with the GRD models. In fact way back in the days of the GRD snap focus was very bare-bones and worked as long as you did not shake the camera with a rough hard press trying to over-rule the regular auto-focus routine.
* I have the GRDIV manual handy atm but I made a note to the Snap Focus Distance advice on page 60 of that manual at the time of first purchase:
Text: "Choose from Auto, 1m, 1.5m, 2.5m, 5m, or infinity" A note on the same page says: "If Auto is selected for Snap Focus Distance the camera focuses according to the focus distance measured by the external AF sensor. When focus distance metering by the external AF sensor is not available, 2.5m is set for Snap Focus Distance".
I had chosen to highlight the latter with my own note: "Optional Auto Focus Distance display needs Snap Focus = Auto".
If my memory serve me well I think that the GRDIV had brought back the little two sensor window that was on the first GRD that gave the camera type and some others (such as the R4) a limited form of PDAF type triangulation that no other point'n'shoot cameras had to my knowledge. This gave these Ricoh cameras an uncannily quick and accurate AF capability compared to its peers. One of Ricoh's little unheralded technical features. Perhaps so quick that I hardly needed Snap Focus.
I don't have my GR to hand to see if this feature was carried forward into the GR line but will have to check to see if the GRIV has it.
[Edit] just checked - there is no obvious PDAF sensor window on the GRIV.
The GRDIV review and the little dual sensor focusing window is quite obvious:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricohgrdiv
Last edited:
https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/5256729273/images/hybridaf.jpeg
This is a throw back to the first GRD and was not continued in the GR model. Presumably because alternative on-sensor (?) PDAF was used or simply because CDAF technology had improved..
The little window of course only would pick up a fairly large object of interest in front of the camera body - so it would not be very selective. But for some (many?) situations it might be enough and gave the end CDAF a big leg up.
Of course where the GRIV AF is not fast enough then refined Snap Focus would be truly useful.
But maybe Auto-determining Snap Focus distance still depends on some sort of AF routine being used. Must re-check the GRIV manual and see what it says.
This is a throw back to the first GRD and was not continued in the GR model. Presumably because alternative on-sensor (?) PDAF was used or simply because CDAF technology had improved..
The little window of course only would pick up a fairly large object of interest in front of the camera body - so it would not be very selective. But for some (many?) situations it might be enough and gave the end CDAF a big leg up.
Of course where the GRIV AF is not fast enough then refined Snap Focus would be truly useful.
But maybe Auto-determining Snap Focus distance still depends on some sort of AF routine being used. Must re-check the GRIV manual and see what it says.
DougOB
Senior Member
I have taken a bit more interest in the various models since I ordered my GRIV. Yes the GRIII had on-sensor pdaf.
The little window which had two emitters (?) seems to have been based on a similar principle to the pdaf sensors in a dslr. Only external and facing forward from the top of the camera body. They were a feature of the first GRD only and at least the R4 (possibly others that I am not aware of). However disappeared by the GRDII and only re-appeared temporarily on the GRDIV. On the GRD, R4 and GRDIV they gave a hybrid quick focus boost if the subject matter was presumably large and in front of the camera. Because the lens was a constant fixed one (prime on the GRD/IV and zoom on the R4) it enabled the early camera bodies to have apparently better performance than its peer group. I don't know why the GRDII and GRDIII did not have these emitters or why they were abandoned also on the GR and GRII. Perhaps cdaf and an enhanced Snap Focus routine were considered good enough?
I remember saying post from the early days (not mine) that listed the various multiple focus modes of those Ricoh cameras that set it apart from other compact cameras. (PDAF, CDAF, Snap and MF). But I have wondered just how many Ricoh owners have used the crude, but improved, manual focus facility.
I quick look at Australian eBay listings last night found 9 pages (!) of Ricoh listings of mainly GRD/GR models, some GR film cameras, a few GXR items, and a whole industry of accessories. I was surprised at how well the asking prices were holding up - mainly from Japanese vendors.
Interestingly the GRD grew in size to the GRDIV at 109x60x25 then jumped to the GR at 117x61x35 but has been trimmed back to the GRIII at 109x62x33 and the GRIV is specified at 109x61x33 in the dpreview review.
Whereas the GR was not that much larger than the earlier GRD models I personally found that it was just that little to bit large to wear on the hip any more where cubic millimetres mean a lot. Not helped by is very nice but quite bulky oem holster-type case.
Personally, the AF improvement makes it worth the upgrade. Especially with a new sensor that's better in lower light. That was my main issue with the GR3 so this is much appreciated. I was like Robin, I struggled to get shots when timing was critical. Maybe not as bad as he said he experienced but the hit rate is important for street.
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