50-200mm f2.8 vs 40-150mm 2.8 comparison

daveomd

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I don't understand why there no direct comparisons of the 50-200mm f2.8 vs the 40-150mm f2.8?

I have the 40-150mm f2.8 and with or without the 1.4 TC the resulting images are tack sharp and the af on my OM-1.2 is excellent. The new lens cost a lot more and is much heavier so why isn't anyone showing us how much better it is, if it is better than the 40-150mm f2.8?

Both lens can shoot at f2.8 across the entire zoom range, so depth of field should be similar.

I would just like to see a comparison of how my photos will be better with the heavier, more expensive lens.

Almost seems like OM Systems is trying to sell the newer lens based on looking similar to their $7,500 Big White. If all the new tech is so much better Show Us !
 
Here's where I have difficulty reconciling alternate views on this forum. djr3, I'm not specifically directing this at you, because I'm not certain you said the alternate view here, so bear with me on this.

When folks on this forum compare MFT with FF, they claim that FF's 2+ stop advantage in low light and noise is nearly meaningless given today's incredible software noise reduction algorithms. That's a justification to suit a particular preference.

But here, where there's only one stop difference b/w the Panasonic 50-200 and the OM 50-200, all of a sudden it's incredibly meaningful? The software algorithms no longer work on an image from a Panasonic 50-200 lens to get rid of what little incremental noise there is to make it similar to the OM 50-200 lens? And given the photo above, the same could be said for, say, the Panasonic 100-300mm II lens. I took the photo below with the 100-300 II on an EM5III from my deck, and it was late in the day. You don't need a $3500 lens to be capturing these kinds of shots. Let's be honest, that's another justification to suit a different preference.

Your point about the TC is a valid one- that 1.4TC is hard to get, though if folks already have the 200mm, they likely have it. That's how I have it. And contrary to what someone else said here, the Panasonic 200mm w/ 1.4xTC is still available, new for sale, on BH- cheaper even than this OM lens. But I digress.

Again, djr3, this isn't necessarily directed at you. For all I know, you may think the FF noise advantage is meaningful, and then you'd be consistent with your view that even a one stop noise advantage is meaningful. In that case, there'd be no hypocrisy and you'd be entirely consistent in your thinking. But I say this because there are some on this forum who seemingly like to have their cake and eat it too.

And one last thing along the very same line. Apparently size, down to a few grams even, matters to folks on this forum to justify MFT over FF. Ditto for price. But that, too, goes out the window when justifying a much, much larger and much more expensive OM lens than a Pan-Leica equivalent.
I certainly do not believe that the 2 stop difference between FF and mFTs is unimportant Give me a Sony A9.3 which allows me to have the same field of view and resolution as my OM1.2+MC20+300mm f4 (1200mm) without cropping for the same weight and I will switch to that camera/lens system immediately.

I want to have a single camera/lens which allows me to shoot from wide angle (8-25mm f4) to long telephoto (MC20+300mm) at a weight I can carry and still enjoy photography. Micro Four Thirds equipment allows that for me. There are always compromises.

I do realize that one could use FF cameras and crop to mFTs field of view. Since much of my photography is telephoto, that would require cropping of a large percentage of my images with no gain in IQ since you crop away that 2 stop advantage and are shooting the equivalent of mFTs.

I can also post images of deer/Black Bear (like your excellent buck) with lower ISO taken in better light. I can also post images of flying swallows taken with my old FTs E-510 and 70-300 f4-5.6 lens. However, I can post far more images often taken in less ideal conditions with my current equipment with better cameras and faster lenses. The difference between the Panasonic 50-200 at 200mm f4 is not just one stop difference in ISO, but the equivalent of 1/2 the shutter speed at the same ISO which is critical if you are photographing moving targets.

My 50-200 SWD allows me to get good images with 1/3 stop advantage over the Panasonic 50-200 and I do have the EC14 which gives a 283mm focal length which is why I never considered the Panasonic. The OM Systems 50-200 f2.8 gives me 2/3 stop advantage over my 50-200 SWD, faster focus, 50 fps with focus (compared to 7 fps on the SWD), dual stabilization (vs only IBIS with the SWD), and ability to use my MC14 and MC20 (I only have the EC14 for the SWD) and many other features not available with FTs lenses on the OM1.

This also gives me the option of not having to take both my OM1.1 with the FTs 50-200 SWD lens and my OM1.2 with the 300mm lens with TCs when I am not sure if I will need the longer focal lengths of the 300mm with TCs. I can just carry one camera with the 50-200 f2.8 and the two TCs if I occasionally need the longer focal lengths.
 
f46a3a4b7f144cff9102bf0112d58238.jpg
Yes, obviously the zoom is more flexible then the 200mm prime. And sometimes 50-200 is more useful then 40-150, sometimes the other way around. But we're not talking about range.

The point is that all reviewers claim that the new 50-200/2.8 has (much) better IQ and some also claim nicer bokeh.

Some of us want to see this with our own eyes, compared to the existing alternatives. So we can see if and how much better the new lens is, and evaluate if it is worth the extra cost and weight (for ourselves).
I would be very surprised if the 50-200 f2.8 has significantly better resolution than the 40-150 f2.8 up to 150mm. However, I would be extremely surprised if it did not have better resolution than the MC14 + 40-150 f2.8. See the Lenstip resolution for the 40-150 below with a 12MP sensor (including the 210mm with the MC14). For those of us who would almost always use the 40-150 f2.8 with the MC14, the new lens should give much better resolution. The problem with always using a TC with a zoom lens is that it has a significant effect at all focal lengths, even if you only need the 210mm some of the time.

I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4, given the comparison of the Lenstip resolution graphs with a 16MP sensor for the Panasonic and 12MP sensor for the Olympus. However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue. I hope the lens is somewhat better than the Panasonic against bright light since this is often a potential problem with wildlife photography.

I hope the new lens has nicer bokeh than the 40-150 f2.8, but if not, this is a problem that can be minimized in PP. However, this does add to PP difficulty.

c62f3e88e2a649eaa149498d02a3126f.jpg
Optical limits has tested both the 40-140mm and Pany 50-200mm on the same camera there is not a lot in it.

3918b62aac4142dba3132d4c53e8e3a1.jpg
I thought I said that "However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue.
Indeed you did right after you posted this :-)

"I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4,"

To be fair I think I picked up your post wrong I thought you were suggesting that the 40-150mm with 1/4x would be a little better than the Panasonic which given the test results of both cameras on the same sensor. Is not going to be the case . Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick

Lenstips shows that the 1.4x TC has a significant impact on resolution at 210mm





2757e875d5d146fe9a173c525ad15e61.jpg







For those of us who don't need the extreme focal lengths of the bird guys. I think the new 50-200mm is a much more flexible option. My needs at longer focal lengths are minimal though I have the 40-150mm + 1.4x tc and happy with it. If I did not have this lens already the 50-200mm would be in my consideration .

Not a lot of raw samples available but it does look to be a vg performer and the odd shot I have seen the bokeh does look better . Bokeh being about the only notable weakness of the 40-150mm

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
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For the bird and nature guys it looks like a good match with the longer lenses. At the high end the new 50-200mm with the 150-400mm f4.5 is a heck of combination
We'll see what the take-up is amongst wildlife photographers, but I shoot a wide range of birds, mammals, herps and macro and I don't see a place for this lens in my collection. I need the reach of the 150-400/4.5 TC, and the magnification of the 90 Macro, often with the 1.4x. The 50-200 is less capable than either of these, except perhaps for the rare occasion when I might need f/2.8. I can't remember the last time when that would have made a difference.
The 90mm for macro is of course hard to match but it only covers one focal length between 50 and 150mm . It also does it at F/3.5 I do think for a wider range of scenarios , sports , events , larger critters ( including people :-) ) etc the 50-200mm has a lot going for it

The 50-200 looks like a truly wonderful lens and a great addition to the lineup, but not for me.
It does indeed :-) Not for me either the 40-150mm F/2.8 covers most of my needs with the 1.4x on the odd occasion . Though it is my aversion to white lenses that puts me off more
 
I don't think that this lens has much to do with market share but more to adding a further zoom telephoto to their clutch of 40-150mm lens grouping and in the process of offering something in a halo class as an alternative to the Panasonic 50-200. Which lens is as much a reasonable choice to the new OMS lens rather than a direct competitor as you have clearly shown.

The way this lens is made and priced puts it into the small turnover, quite expensive class, where there is never enough volume of made stock on head office warehouse storage to cause "cost of inventory" concern. Made on bench more or less to keep a small but steady trickle of sales at fully achieved decided selling price that was calculated to make a profit on every lens sold. What is there not to like? A small trickle of decent profits for a fairly low invested cost (by normal standards). It would likely cost more to build smaller, lighter, cheaper (lower margin), more popular lenses and create a world-wide inventory that would buffer demand without the prospect of delays in supply. Those who are very keen to buy a halo level lens might find it easier to wait a while if necessary for the delivery of such a lens.
Makes sense. And important to commend them for coming up with what seems to be, by all measure, an optically excellent lens designed and manufactured by them, even if it won't sell in large volume because of the value proposition. Hoping this is the beginning of a resurgent OMS. Competition is good.
Well part of the deal for having these types of exotic halo lenses is that they are also unlikely to come to the, market in droves. Maybe one per year. But once introduced they will be available on trickle-supply as long as the specific castings of lens components last.

I don't know enough about lens element manufacture but they either ground to specification on demand or perhaps they are better batch produced into stock and shelved until needed.

Certainly making extrusion moulds must be expensive and the sourcing of lens shells, be they extruded metal or plastic, might be best as a batch of whatever size that is economic. These would almost certainly be shelved until demand used them up. More easily sourced components would obviously be bought in as necessary.

Don't forget the packaging and documentation - once set up it could be churned out and stored - perhaps harder to make in small quantities.

Obviously we need a production engineer to comment here as I am only an accountant who thinks about how small volume production might be organised when some of the necessary and expensive components can only be produced in substantial quantities.

Ideally the whole product could be made up in one smooth production swoop but the cost/storage issues of the high-price, slow selling, items would be enough to make the most hardened bean counter wince just a little.

The solution is to make a batch of the big-batch specialised components and store them to be assembled in relatively small quantities to meet the demand. Meets the investment/risk equation as best can.

The main issue is just how many of these components to batch up and what to do when the stock of specialised components dries up .... Make another batch? How well did the previous assembled batch sell?

Because of the bespoke assembly and storage of parts necessity the top-end halo products are always going to be expensive.

The good news is that a company is unlikely to invest in expensive halo products if it is thinking of moving away from producing the basic product that uses those products.
 
I also have the 1.4x which works quite well though I seldom need longer than the 40-150
doh... i have the 1.4x too and can't believe i didn't think to take the same shot with it
I use a lot of primes and have missed shots because I forgot I was using a zoom now that us doh!! moment :-)
 
Yes, obviously the zoom is more flexible then the 200mm prime. And sometimes 50-200 is more useful then 40-150, sometimes the other way around. But we're not talking about range.

The point is that all reviewers claim that the new 50-200/2.8 has (much) better IQ and some also claim nicer bokeh.

Some of us want to see this with our own eyes, compared to the existing alternatives. So we can see if and how much better the new lens is, and evaluate if it is worth the extra cost and weight (for ourselves).
I would be very surprised if the 50-200 f2.8 has significantly better resolution than the 40-150 f2.8 up to 150mm. However, I would be extremely surprised if it did not have better resolution than the MC14 + 40-150 f2.8. See the Lenstip resolution for the 40-150 below with a 12MP sensor (including the 210mm with the MC14). For those of us who would almost always use the 40-150 f2.8 with the MC14, the new lens should give much better resolution. The problem with always using a TC with a zoom lens is that it has a significant effect at all focal lengths, even if you only need the 210mm some of the time.

I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4, given the comparison of the Lenstip resolution graphs with a 16MP sensor for the Panasonic and 12MP sensor for the Olympus. However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue. I hope the lens is somewhat better than the Panasonic against bright light since this is often a potential problem with wildlife photography.

I hope the new lens has nicer bokeh than the 40-150 f2.8, but if not, this is a problem that can be minimized in PP. However, this does add to PP difficulty.

c62f3e88e2a649eaa149498d02a3126f.jpg
Optical limits has tested both the 40-140mm and Pany 50-200mm on the same camera there is not a lot in it.

3918b62aac4142dba3132d4c53e8e3a1.jpg
I thought I said that "However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue.
Indeed you did right after you posted this :-)

"I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4,"

To be fair I think I picked up your post wrong I thought you were suggesting that the 40-150mm with 1/4x would be a little better than the Panasonic which given the test results of both cameras on the same sensor. Is not going to be the case . Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick

Lenstips shows that the 1.4x TC has a significant impact on resolution at 210mm

2757e875d5d146fe9a173c525ad15e61.jpg

For those of us who don't need the extreme focal lengths of the bird guys. I think the new 50-200mm is a much more flexible option. My needs at longer focal lengths are minimal though I have the 40-150mm + 1.4x tc and happy with it. If I did not have this lens already the 50-200mm would be in my consideration .

Not a lot of raw samples available but it does look to be a vg performer and the odd shot I have seen the bokeh does look better . Bokeh being about the only notable weakness of the 40-150mm
The resolution charts for the 40-150mm are better than the New Little white, and cost half the price...Humm interesting. Talk about bang for your buck!
 
Nice, I've only just started running again after knee injuries and a separate operation - I bet your miles are quicker than my kilometres at the moment haha, looks like a pretty big meet!
The photos look very golden hour, I like them. My personal preference is to keep noise reduction as low as possible and shutter speeds as high as possible, I find it easier to edit away noise than try to add in detail, even as a batch process. RAW would give you more flexibility, but I know what you mean about settings. I had been messing around with my OM1.2 the other week and when I was best man at a wedding knew I wanted to set it to monochrome and aperture priority but completely forgot about the drive mode so ended up with a lot of very similar shots of during the other speeches haha.

So yeah if wanted suggestions - keep the shutter speed as high as you can - generally at that time that means wide open lenses and shoot raw to recover detail. I found a long time ago that I find colour noise a lot more noticeable and annoying than luminance noise so personally I only really correct for colour noise but camera bodies seem to see them as the same thing.
Thank you for the suggestions JamieTux, much appreciated! Normally I shoot RAW+JPEG, and as you note, that would have given me more flexibility- especially with noise reduction. And I agree with you that the color noise is a lot more objectionable- IIRC, that was the primary issue here, too. Will check to see what the default settings for NR are for JPEG's as well, as I believe Panasonic is quite aggressive with that.

Do you, or anyone else, tweak the JPEG sharpness settings as well? Would be nice for some shots to have the JPEG be as optimally baked in-camera as possible.
most of the time I sgoot raw knowing the post process recipe I am going to default process it with so I don’t tweak the jpegs, however I have played in the past and the Panasonic jpeg engine is definitely worth setting as it can give you finished images.
And if I recall, I was shooting at somewhere between 1/500 and 1/1000, thinking that was likely sufficient for running. True, at this level and given my proximity to the runners on the track, the velocity/speed changes were greater than, say, high school athletes. So would a faster shutter speed than that have been preferable, even with higher noise?
id have thought the shutter speed was easily enough, I try to not drop below 1/1000s for soccer as the ball distorts but just the athletes it should be fast enough, with panning you could even drop a bit slower and get the limbs in motion a bit. I think the slight softness In seeing must be part of the noise reduction which looks pretty aggressive on your shots.
And as for the running, I'm glad you're able to start running again- and I hope the operation was a success and the knee injury is fully behind you. Wishing you the very best! I absolutely love running, especially middle distance track events where I can feel the power and speed the human body is capable of generating. I had a health scare earlier this year, but thankfully picked it up early and after a stent placement, I'm back to competitive running. Looking to break the 2:20 barrier for the 800, which isn't that easy given my age and the meds I'm now on- but I'll certainly keep trying to improve.
at my fastest I wasn’t that fast, I’m naturally a sprinter and grew up playing rugby (and then Gridiron) so even 100m was longer than I ever needed to run ;) 2:20 for 800m is fast
Monmouth Mile Women's Pro 800m
Monmouth Mile Women's Pro 800m

Race leaders
Race leaders

Finish- missed the winner on the right, and the banner slipped from the official's hand prematurely
Finish- missed the winner on the right, and the banner slipped from the official's hand prematurely

Allie Wilson looking far more comfortable than me immediately after an 800m!
Allie Wilson looking far more comfortable than me immediately after an 800m!
That las one is great!
Thank you for the kind words, and yes, Allie is very photogenic- I'm staggered by how she could run such a fast face and yet be so cheery just a minute later! There were two recent Olympians in that race, she was one of them and my coach used to be her university coach. I gave him her photo to relay to her, along with a separate one I captured of her during the Fifth Avenue mile two weeks ago.
cool connection!! I meant that the expression and the moment you captured is great, reactions are what make sport for me :)
Never been a fan of monopods, I always hand held that set up and then the 100-500 in the RF mount. Algthough the sensor is bigger they are also both relatively dark aperture. Maybe suggest to him that he should try a m43 50-200 f2.8 instead ;)
Thanks for responding to my questions without taking offence!
You know, I thought the same thing! But I was so harried for time and tired after my race, it didn't even dawn on me until afterwards. Our setups literally had the same equivalent focal length coverage and nearly the same equivalent aperture range if I'm not mistaken, yet my setup was dramatically smaller and handheld! True, it was a much larger sensor with the benefits that come with that though.
That canon kit is nice and relatively lightweight for the quality (the RF kit even more so) but it is a lot larger and heavier than the m43 versions. I think if it was the 100-400 then it’s 4.5 to 6.3



--
James
 
<snip>
The resolution charts for the 40-150mm are better than the New Little white, and cost half the price...Humm interesting. Talk about bang for your buck!
Help me out here -- where did you find resolution charts for the new OM System 50 - 200 lens to support this assertion?

The Optical Limits charts that you apparently referenced are for the Panasonic 50 - 200 mm lens, not the new OM System lens..
 
Yes, obviously the zoom is more flexible then the 200mm prime. And sometimes 50-200 is more useful then 40-150, sometimes the other way around. But we're not talking about range.

The point is that all reviewers claim that the new 50-200/2.8 has (much) better IQ and some also claim nicer bokeh.

Some of us want to see this with our own eyes, compared to the existing alternatives. So we can see if and how much better the new lens is, and evaluate if it is worth the extra cost and weight (for ourselves).
I would be very surprised if the 50-200 f2.8 has significantly better resolution than the 40-150 f2.8 up to 150mm. However, I would be extremely surprised if it did not have better resolution than the MC14 + 40-150 f2.8. See the Lenstip resolution for the 40-150 below with a 12MP sensor (including the 210mm with the MC14). For those of us who would almost always use the 40-150 f2.8 with the MC14, the new lens should give much better resolution. The problem with always using a TC with a zoom lens is that it has a significant effect at all focal lengths, even if you only need the 210mm some of the time.

I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4, given the comparison of the Lenstip resolution graphs with a 16MP sensor for the Panasonic and 12MP sensor for the Olympus. However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue. I hope the lens is somewhat better than the Panasonic against bright light since this is often a potential problem with wildlife photography.

I hope the new lens has nicer bokeh than the 40-150 f2.8, but if not, this is a problem that can be minimized in PP. However, this does add to PP difficulty.

c62f3e88e2a649eaa149498d02a3126f.jpg
Optical limits has tested both the 40-140mm and Pany 50-200mm on the same camera there is not a lot in it.

3918b62aac4142dba3132d4c53e8e3a1.jpg
I thought I said that "However, either is acceptably sharp, so this is not a major issue.
Indeed you did right after you posted this :-)

"I think it might have a little better resolution than the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4,"

To be fair I think I picked up your post wrong I thought you were suggesting that the 40-150mm with 1/4x would be a little better than the Panasonic which given the test results of both cameras on the same sensor. Is not going to be the case . Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick

Lenstips shows that the 1.4x TC has a significant impact on resolution at 210mm

2757e875d5d146fe9a173c525ad15e61.jpg

For those of us who don't need the extreme focal lengths of the bird guys. I think the new 50-200mm is a much more flexible option. My needs at longer focal lengths are minimal though I have the 40-150mm + 1.4x tc and happy with it. If I did not have this lens already the 50-200mm would be in my consideration .

Not a lot of raw samples available but it does look to be a vg performer and the odd shot I have seen the bokeh does look better . Bokeh being about the only notable weakness of the 40-150mm
The resolution charts for the 40-150mm are better than the New Little white, and cost half the price...Humm interesting. Talk about bang for your buck!
There are no resolution charts for the New Little white.

There are resolution charts for the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-4 and the Olympus 40-150 f2.8. You will need to wait a while for resolution charts for the Little White.

I would guess that they would be similar to the 40-150 f2.8, but that is just a guess based on no real information.

--
drj3
 
Would have loved a 70-250 F/4.Likely about half the price,lighter,and better suited to lots of nature photos without a telecon.With today's NR software a 350mm long end F/5.6 with a 1.4 telecon would be sweet.
 
At least we've seen some posts comparing the two OM lenses. I was expecting to see a comparison between the OM and Panasonic-Leica 50-200mm f/2.8-4.0, but it seems like that specific comparison is being avoided. That lens hasn't even been mentioned in the reviews, despite excellent reviews for the PL lens in the past. My guess is OM specifically asked the first reviewers to avoid doing so.

I also chuckle when I see posts saying that FINALLY there's a 50-200mm for MFT- when there's been an excellent one for YEARS.

The Panasonic Leica lens is roughly:
  • Half the weight (1.44lb [655g] for PL vs 2.8lb [1250g] for OM)
  • Half the price ($1900 US PL vs $3700 US OM)... OR...
  • A third of the price when buying used (~$1200 US PL vs $3800 US OM)
  • Little over half the length (132mm PL vs 226mm PL)
  • Half stop better combined IBIS/OIS on native camera (Panasonic 7.5 stops, OM 7 stops)
  • 1 stop slower on telephoto end
  • Both accept their respective 1.4x and 2.0x TC's
  • Both are weather sealed
  • Black, while the other is white
For Panasonic users, I can't see many people buying the OM lens- the value proposition for most users simply isn't there. Panasonic users needing this range would be better served with the PL lens. It's excellent, much smaller, helluva lot cheaper, and has fabulous DualSync IS or whatever it's called. For OM users who want SyncIS and the OM name on the lens, then it's trickier. Given the large size- it's as heavy and significantly longer than my Samyang 35-150mm f/2.0-2.8 for full frame, a big lens- and hefty price tag, I would also gather it'd be a tough sell for all but the most ardent OM fans.

Also interesting that now that this new OM lens came out, I'm seeing criticism of the OM 40-150mm f/2.8 that I had rarely seen before (e.g., it's too short on the long end, no OIS, etc).

I find it good news however that OM seems to have designed and is manufacturing this lens themselves. Kudos to them for that. If I were them, I would have worked on making the popular lenses smaller, lighter, and cheaper. Don't see them pulling any extra market share from Panasonic MFT or FF with this offering.
I think Rafeal got it exactly right. How about a DIRECT comparison NOW with the PL50-200mm f2.8-4 AND the OM 40-150mm f2.8. Not from someone's rememberance or ancedotal rememberance. I suggest that even if the OM 50-200 lens proves absolutely fantastic, it will not sell many at the asking price - enough to buy a good camera and a good lens together. I mean - that much just for a good picture?
 
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I’d like to see a comparison as well, but I don‘t really think they’re in the same class. Also the 40-150 f/2.8 Pro was released eleven years ago, I believe. Even if they were optical equals, there’s been so much innovation since then, that has presumably been put into the new lens. For one thing, 50-200 f/2.8 Pro, which is indeed much larger than the 40-150 f/2.8 Pro, is less than 200g heavier.
We have 16 elements in 10 groups against 21 elements in 13 groups so there's the cost difference. One would hope that translates into performance. There have been subjective tests but I'd like to see some figures.
 
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At least we've seen some posts comparing the two OM lenses. I was expecting to see a comparison between the OM and Panasonic-Leica 50-200mm f/2.8-4.0, but it seems like that specific comparison is being avoided. That lens hasn't even been mentioned in the reviews, despite excellent reviews for the PL lens in the past. My guess is OM specifically asked the first reviewers to avoid doing so.

I also chuckle when I see posts saying that FINALLY there's a 50-200mm for MFT- when there's been an excellent one for YEARS.

The Panasonic Leica lens is roughly:
  • Half the weight (1.44lb [655g] for PL vs 2.8lb [1250g] for OM)
  • Half the price ($1900 US PL vs $3700 US OM)... OR...
  • A third of the price when buying used (~$1200 US PL vs $3800 US OM)
  • Little over half the length (132mm PL vs 226mm PL)
  • Half stop better combined IBIS/OIS on native camera (Panasonic 7.5 stops, OM 7 stops)
  • 1 stop slower on telephoto end
  • Both accept their respective 1.4x and 2.0x TC's
  • Both are weather sealed
  • Black, while the other is white
For Panasonic users, I can't see many people buying the OM lens- the value proposition for most users simply isn't there. Panasonic users needing this range would be better served with the PL lens. It's excellent, much smaller, helluva lot cheaper, and has fabulous DualSync IS or whatever it's called. For OM users who want SyncIS and the OM name on the lens, then it's trickier. Given the large size- it's as heavy and significantly longer than my Samyang 35-150mm f/2.0-2.8 for full frame, a big lens- and hefty price tag, I would also gather it'd be a tough sell for all but the most ardent OM fans.

Also interesting that now that this new OM lens came out, I'm seeing criticism of the OM 40-150mm f/2.8 that I had rarely seen before (e.g., it's too short on the long end, no OIS, etc).

I find it good news however that OM seems to have designed and is manufacturing this lens themselves. Kudos to them for that. If I were them, I would have worked on making the popular lenses smaller, lighter, and cheaper. Don't see them pulling any extra market share from Panasonic MFT or FF with this offering.
Everything you say is correct. However, the 7 year old Pan-Leica has 12 elements as against the new OMS 50-200 with 21 elements. So, it's kind of a step up in class or maybe lens evolution.
 
For the bird and nature guys it looks like a good match with the longer lenses. At the high end the new 50-200mm with the 150-400mm f4.5 is a heck of combination
We'll see what the take-up is amongst wildlife photographers, but I shoot a wide range of birds, mammals, herps and macro and I don't see a place for this lens in my collection. I need the reach of the 150-400/4.5 TC, and the magnification of the 90 Macro, often with the 1.4x. The 50-200 is less capable than either of these, except perhaps for the rare occasion when I might need f/2.8. I can't remember the last time when that would have made a difference.

The 50-200 looks like a truly wonderful lens and a great addition to the lineup, but not for me.
 
I’d like to see a comparison as well, but I don‘t really think they’re in the same class. Also the 40-150 f/2.8 Pro was released eleven years ago, I believe. Even if they were optical equals, there’s been so much innovation since then, that has presumably been put into the new lens. For one thing, 50-200 f/2.8 Pro, which is indeed much larger than the 40-150 f/2.8 Pro, is less than 200g heavier.
We have 16 elements in 10 groups against 21 elements in 13 groups so there's the cost difference. One would hope that translates into performance. There have been subjective tests but I'd like to see some figures.
Elements and groups? What are we buying? How about just great pictures?
 
For the bird and nature guys it looks like a good match with the longer lenses. At the high end the new 50-200mm with the 150-400mm f4.5 is a heck of combination
We'll see what the take-up is amongst wildlife photographers, but I shoot a wide range of birds, mammals, herps and macro and I don't see a place for this lens in my collection. I need the reach of the 150-400/4.5 TC, and the magnification of the 90 Macro, often with the 1.4x. The 50-200 is less capable than either of these, except perhaps for the rare occasion when I might need f/2.8. I can't remember the last time when that would have made a difference.

The 50-200 looks like a truly wonderful lens and a great addition to the lineup, but not for me.
This seems to be my landing spot too. The main question is, do you need 400mm?

The main factor is going from 300mm to 400mm increases size a lot. For bigger or closer animals, 300 is often enough. For smaller ones, 400 is not enough.

When I have my Panasonic setup, I have been using the 50-200 like a 70-300, but act like I have the 400mm as a bonus, since it's about the same size as a 70-300. Otherwise I'll take the 100-400. Personally I think the PL 100-400 is really special because it has such reach while being the size of a 70-300 roughly.
Sort of my landing spot too, but I have neither of those two lenses cited in the original post - just the PL 100-400. Matched with the 12-100 or th shorter 60 Macro, it seems like a pretty good set - not even considering the PL 50-200 which I also have.
 
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I don't think that this lens has much to do with market share but more to adding a further zoom telephoto to their clutch of 40-150mm lens grouping and in the process of offering something in a halo class as an alternative to the Panasonic 50-200. Which lens is as much a reasonable choice to the new OMS lens rather than a direct competitor as you have clearly shown.

The way this lens is made and priced puts it into the small turnover, quite expensive class, where there is never enough volume of made stock on head office warehouse storage to cause "cost of inventory" concern. Made on bench more or less to keep a small but steady trickle of sales at fully achieved decided selling price that was calculated to make a profit on every lens sold. What is there not to like? A small trickle of decent profits for a fairly low invested cost (by normal standards). It would likely cost more to build smaller, lighter, cheaper (lower margin), more popular lenses and create a world-wide inventory that would buffer demand without the prospect of delays in supply. Those who are very keen to buy a halo level lens might find it easier to wait a while if necessary for the delivery of such a lens.
Makes sense. And important to commend them for coming up with what seems to be, by all measure, an optically excellent lens designed and manufactured by them, even if it won't sell in large volume because of the value proposition. Hoping this is the beginning of a resurgent OMS. Competition is good.
Well part of the deal for having these types of exotic halo lenses is that they are also unlikely to come to the, market in droves. Maybe one per year. But once introduced they will be available on trickle-supply as long as the specific castings of lens components last.

I don't know enough about lens element manufacture but they either ground to specification on demand or perhaps they are better batch produced into stock and shelved until needed.

Certainly making extrusion moulds must be expensive and the sourcing of lens shells, be they extruded metal or plastic, might be best as a batch of whatever size that is economic. These would almost certainly be shelved until demand used them up. More easily sourced components would obviously be bought in as necessary.

Don't forget the packaging and documentation - once set up it could be churned out and stored - perhaps harder to make in small quantities.

Obviously we need a production engineer to comment here as I am only an accountant who thinks about how small volume production might be organised when some of the necessary and expensive components can only be produced in substantial quantities.

Ideally the whole product could be made up in one smooth production swoop but the cost/storage issues of the high-price, slow selling, items would be enough to make the most hardened bean counter wince just a little.

The solution is to make a batch of the big-batch specialised components and store them to be assembled in relatively small quantities to meet the demand. Meets the investment/risk equation as best can.

The main issue is just how many of these components to batch up and what to do when the stock of specialised components dries up .... Make another batch? How well did the previous assembled batch sell?

Because of the bespoke assembly and storage of parts necessity the top-end halo products are always going to be expensive.

The good news is that a company is unlikely to invest in expensive halo products if it is thinking of moving away from producing the basic product that uses those products.
If this is the OM playbook and they are ditching non-premium products (such as food items), then it would appear they are trying to upscale the brand focused on a single niche (adventure) ….. similar to Leica (Leica focused on belong a lifestyle brand)
Well it is quite normal for any manufacturer to concentrate on the type of gear that sells their product. Olympus made a virtue out of IBIS even if they were not the first company to exploit it. Unfortunately now they "everyone" has IBIS to tick in their specification box it has become more hollow a feature other than to keep trying to make it even more stops better. OMS has found a niche with longer lenses and their use for birding. But it is a limited niche and computational imaging seems to another useful niche that wins hearts.

There is also a certain amount of back tracking and in-lens IS is now just as fashionable and can be utilised to work in conjunction with a camera body IBIS. No red faces that the majority of Olympus lenses have no in lens stabilisation. Even that multiple lens focal length of 40-150mm reach has no in lens stabilisation but this had not really reduced the appeal and utility value of these lenses. I love my 40-150 in both f2.8 and f4.0 versions.

On the other hand Panasonic made themselves the master of the tiny, but capable camera bodies with the GM series. Then somehow lost their way with no update of the GX9 and the affordable G100D which is everything that the GM series lacked except "no IBIS" and an being a good bit larger. But the G100D will not fit into the image of a premium brand line. The G9 did and continues to serve as a capable larger premium market camera - now long in the tooth but still no slouch it is still a generalist type camera that does everything competently but without the computational charisma attributed to the OMS brigade. The G9II obviously is a very nice update for the G9 but most G9 users are very happy with the G9 just as it is. At once a sad time for G9II sales and a tribute to how long-lasting the love of the G9 has been. To say that the G9II has not hit the spot in M4/3 terms is to say that the S5II in L-Mount terms might also be a failure in FF terms is simply not true.

When the G9 wears out the G9II is certainly winking at us. I have both and truly find that I use them together and switching between the G9's is easier than switching between a GX9 and G9. But I have a fondness for the simple, sweet, and capable G100 body which says "great value" to me and lets my GX9 languish a bit in retrospect. If I need something more than the G100 I by-pass the GX9 and go straight to the G9 or slightly more perceptibly the G9II.
 
I think we will only get good comparisons after the general release. These will probably come from OM users who are not OM ambassadors but do have and are very comfortable using the 40-150 f2.8. I'm not saying that ambassadors are biased, and there are many very well-balanced reviews already.
The ambassadors of every brand are absolutely biased :-) I am also leery of the YT channels that get early access to the latest gear , as they have a vested interest in generating views. This is my opinion of all brands not just OM
I like your "leery" a word not often heard on generalist forums.
But....

The real problem after release will be sorting the wheat from the chaff.... who will you trust...?
I like to see some more decent raw samples . I am happy with the 40-150mm F/2.8 and though bokeh in busy backgrounds is a potential issue but not a deal breaker. I don't need the extra 50mm and the white lens also puts me off. But from the limited samples available the 50-200 F/2.8 looks to be very good and the limited shots I have seen with a busier background do look better.
I like white lenses myself - but I am not so keen on buying any more of them ..... There are limits to my largess. I have found that the (relatively) new OMS 40-150/4.0 fits nicely on a G100/D type body and the complete lack of any stabilisation is hardly missed. The fact that it collapses slightly at rest but extends to use and turns into an practical internal/zoom focus lens when ready for business is a real attraction, That lens on a G100 fits in a relatively small bag - unlike its distant cousin the marvellous 40-150/2.8.
For any new users another consideration is price the 40-150mm F/2.8 is on offer here in the UK so you can get it for £999 the 50-200mm is £2999 . The OM-1 II + 12-40 II is also on offer with £400 cashback. So if new to the system or just upgrading the OM-1 II + 12-40mm II, 40-150mm F/2.8 comes in at £3199 compared to the 50-200mm alone at £2999

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/

For the bird and nature guys it looks like a good match with the longer lenses. At the high end the new 50-200mm with the 150-400mm f4.5 is a heck of combination
 
I don't think that this lens has much to do with market share but more to adding a further zoom telephoto to their clutch of 40-150mm lens grouping and in the process of offering something in a halo class as an alternative to the Panasonic 50-200. Which lens is as much a reasonable choice to the new OMS lens rather than a direct competitor as you have clearly shown.

The way this lens is made and priced puts it into the small turnover, quite expensive class, where there is never enough volume of made stock on head office warehouse storage to cause "cost of inventory" concern. Made on bench more or less to keep a small but steady trickle of sales at fully achieved decided selling price that was calculated to make a profit on every lens sold. What is there not to like? A small trickle of decent profits for a fairly low invested cost (by normal standards). It would likely cost more to build smaller, lighter, cheaper (lower margin), more popular lenses and create a world-wide inventory that would buffer demand without the prospect of delays in supply. Those who are very keen to buy a halo level lens might find it easier to wait a while if necessary for the delivery of such a lens.
Makes sense. And important to commend them for coming up with what seems to be, by all measure, an optically excellent lens designed and manufactured by them, even if it won't sell in large volume because of the value proposition. Hoping this is the beginning of a resurgent OMS. Competition is good.
Well part of the deal for having these types of exotic halo lenses is that they are also unlikely to come to the, market in droves. Maybe one per year. But once introduced they will be available on trickle-supply as long as the specific castings of lens components last.

I don't know enough about lens element manufacture but they either ground to specification on demand or perhaps they are better batch produced into stock and shelved until needed.

Certainly making extrusion moulds must be expensive and the sourcing of lens shells, be they extruded metal or plastic, might be best as a batch of whatever size that is economic. These would almost certainly be shelved until demand used them up. More easily sourced components would obviously be bought in as necessary.

Don't forget the packaging and documentation - once set up it could be churned out and stored - perhaps harder to make in small quantities.

Obviously we need a production engineer to comment here as I am only an accountant who thinks about how small volume production might be organised when some of the necessary and expensive components can only be produced in substantial quantities.

Ideally the whole product could be made up in one smooth production swoop but the cost/storage issues of the high-price, slow selling, items would be enough to make the most hardened bean counter wince just a little.

The solution is to make a batch of the big-batch specialised components and store them to be assembled in relatively small quantities to meet the demand. Meets the investment/risk equation as best can.

The main issue is just how many of these components to batch up and what to do when the stock of specialised components dries up .... Make another batch? How well did the previous assembled batch sell?

Because of the bespoke assembly and storage of parts necessity the top-end halo products are always going to be expensive.

The good news is that a company is unlikely to invest in expensive halo products if it is thinking of moving away from producing the basic product that uses those products.
If this is the OM playbook and they are ditching non-premium products (such as food items), then it would appear they are trying to upscale the brand focused on a single niche (adventure) ….. similar to Leica (Leica focused on belong a lifestyle brand)
Well it is quite normal for any manufacturer to concentrate on the type of gear that sells their product. Olympus made a virtue out of IBIS even if they were not the first company to exploit it. Unfortunately now they "everyone" has IBIS to tick in their specification box it has become more hollow a feature other than to keep trying to make it even more stops better. OMS has found a niche with longer lenses and their use for birding. But it is a limited niche and computational imaging seems to another useful niche that wins hearts.

There is also a certain amount of back tracking and in-lens IS is now just as fashionable and can be utilised to work in conjunction with a camera body IBIS. No red faces that the majority of Olympus lenses have no in lens stabilisation. Even that multiple lens focal length of 40-150mm reach has no in lens stabilisation but this had not really reduced the appeal and utility value of these lenses. I love my 40-150 in both f2.8 and f4.0 versions.

On the other hand Panasonic made themselves the master of the tiny, but capable camera bodies with the GM series. Then somehow lost their way with no update of the GX9 and the affordable G100D which is everything that the GM series lacked except "no IBIS" and an being a good bit larger. But the G100D will not fit into the image of a premium brand line. The G9 did and continues to serve as a capable larger premium market camera - now long in the tooth but still no slouch it is still a generalist type camera that does everything competently but without the computational charisma attributed to the OMS brigade. The G9II obviously is a very nice update for the G9 but most G9 users are very happy with the G9 just as it is. At once a sad time for G9II sales and a tribute to how long-lasting the love of the G9 has been. To say that the G9II has not hit the spot in M4/3 terms is to say that the S5II in L-Mount terms might also be a failure in FF terms is simply not true.

When the G9 wears out the G9II is certainly winking at us. I have both and truly find that I use them together and switching between the G9's is easier than switching between a GX9 and G9. But I have a fondness for the simple, sweet, and capable G100 body which says "great value" to me and lets my GX9 languish a bit in retrospect. If I need something more than the G100 I by-pass the GX9 and go straight to the G9 or slightly more perceptibly the G9II.

--
Tom Caldwell
You and I are on similar paths, meaning G9.2 will be our eventual primary camera, but for different reasons.

It is my opinion what is holding back OM is the lack of a 25mp-BSI sensor. Panasonic is getting away with it using a non-stacked 25mp because their focus is more on video. That extra 5MP is significant when you need to crop to reframe and don’t want to loose detail.

I find the G9.2 superior over OM-1 for macro photography for exactly this reason.

but will Sony develop and manufacture such a sensor product for OM? And is OM willing to leave Sony Semiconductor if they don’t? (Changing core suppliers costs a company more money, is JIP willing to take that charge?)
 

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