PL9 workflow with Photoshop - DNG or TIFF

Matt2134 said:

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

ishwanu said:

Matt2134 said:

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

A TIFF produced by PhotoLab will have white balance baked in, but a DNG probably won't.

Click to expand...

Digital Nigel said:

ishwanu said:

Matt2134 said:

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

A TIFF produced by PhotoLab will have white balance baked in, but a DNG probably won't.

Click to expand...

Yes, I think that’s correct, and aren’t there other advantages with DNGs? For example, I think the Raw Details option may be available with DNGs but not TIFFs?

Click to expand...

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

• DNG (Digital Negative) from PhotoLab = “Linear DNG.” It’s a partially-developed RAW: DxO’s demosaicing, denoising, and optical/lens corrections are baked in, but most other looks aren’t. It stays “RAW-like,” so a RAW editor (e.g., Lightroom Classic) will still apply its own base profile, tone curve, sharpening, etc. Results can look different from PhotoLab unless you zero those defaults.

• Export to DNG (all corrections applied): The linear DNG generated on export includes all corrections made in DxO PhotoLab. This is the ideal choice if you use Adobe Lightroom Classic as a cataloger, while entrusting the entire processing of your RAW files to DxO PhotoLab.*
• Export to DNG (denoising & optical corrections only): The linear DNG created here includes only DxO noise reduction and lens flaw correction using a DxO Module. You can choose this option if you want to take advantage of the best of DxO technologies while processing and cataloguing your images in Adobe Lightroom Classic.*"

• With or without compression: We advise the uncompressed option. The output files will be larger but you will be able to open them in all image processing software, unlike compressed TIFF files.
• 8 or 16-bit encoding: 8-bit encoding only allows 256 levels per color channel, compared to 65.536 in 16-bits. Of course, the choice is only made possible if the source image is 12-bit or 14-bit (RAW files), or 16-bit (TIFF files). We advise you to choose 16-bit encoding to maintain the highest possible quality workflow."
• TIFF (Tagged Image File Format) is a fully rendered RGB (red-green-blue) image with all your PhotoLab edits baked (color, tone, local adjustments, geometry, etc.). It opens consistently everywhere if that is what you want.

Digital Nigel said:

Digital Nigel said:

iYes, I think that’s correct, and aren’t there other advantages with DNGs? For example, I think the Raw Details option may be available with DNGs but not TIFFs?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Night Pixel said:

This page in the DxO User Guide explains all the Export formats:

Exporting images

• DNG (Digital Negative) from PhotoLab = “Linear DNG.” It’s a partially-developed RAW: DxO’s demosaicing, denoising, and optical/lens corrections are baked in, but most other looks aren’t. It stays “RAW-like,” so a RAW editor (e.g., Lightroom Classic) will still apply its own base profile, tone curve, sharpening, etc. Results can look different from PhotoLab unless you zero those defaults.

The User Guide says: "While the linear DNG format also provides you with a high-quality workflow, it also lets you continue post-processing in compatible software, especially Adobe Lightroom Classic (or Adobe Camera Raw). To do this, you have the following options:

• Export to DNG (all corrections applied): The linear DNG generated on export includes all corrections made in DxO PhotoLab. This is the ideal choice if you use Adobe Lightroom Classic as a cataloger, while entrusting the entire processing of your RAW files to DxO PhotoLab.*
• Export to DNG (denoising & optical corrections only): The linear DNG created here includes only DxO noise reduction and lens flaw correction using a DxO Module. You can choose this option if you want to take advantage of the best of DxO technologies while processing and cataloguing your images in Adobe Lightroom Classic.*"

"TIFF is a format which guarantees a high quality non-destructive workflow, best used for corrections and retouches that do not require the original RAW data. When you choose TIFF format for an output image, you have to select the following:

• With or without compression: We advise the uncompressed option. The output files will be larger but you will be able to open them in all image processing software, unlike compressed TIFF files.
• 8 or 16-bit encoding: 8-bit encoding only allows 256 levels per color channel, compared to 65.536 in 16-bits. Of course, the choice is only made possible if the source image is 12-bit or 14-bit (RAW files), or 16-bit (TIFF files). We advise you to choose 16-bit encoding to maintain the highest possible quality workflow."
• TIFF (Tagged Image File Format) is a fully rendered RGB (red-green-blue) image with all your PhotoLab edits baked (color, tone, local adjustments, geometry, etc.). It opens consistently everywhere if that is what you want.

As a practical matter your choice is:

Additional editing work in a RAW editor like LR/PS Camera RAW? → DNG.

Locked-in look for pixel editing in Photoshop? → 16-bit TIFF.

This discussion in the DxO User Forum might add a little more info even though is refers to PL6: PL6 DNG export options .

Click to expand...

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Night Pixel said:

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

As pointed out in the DxO PhotoLab 9 User guide:

"Export to DNG (denoising & optical corrections only): The linear DNG created here includes only DxO noise reduction and lens flaw correction using a DxO Module. You can choose this option if you want to take advantage of the best of DxO technologies while processing and cataloguing your images in Adobe Lightroom Classic.*"

Click to expand...

IanYorke said:

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Linear DNG is effectively a 16bit Tif without a defined white point. Any other editor will open the Linear DNG and apply its default white balance. This is where colour changes occur.

So if you like the colour of your DXO-Photolab initial edit, and there are a lot of options available in DXO-Photolab, then export a Tif. If you prefer the colour capability of your second editor, then use a Linear DNG.

Ian

Click to expand...

IanYorke said:

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Linear DNG is effectively a 16bit Tif without a defined white point. Any other editor will open the Linear DNG and apply its default white balance. This is where colour changes occur.

So if you like the colour of your DXO-Photolab initial edit, and there are a lot of options available in DXO-Photolab, then export a Tif. If you prefer the colour capability of your second editor, then use a Linear DNG.

Ian

Click to expand...

Matt2134 said:

IanYorke said:

Matt2134 said:

Annie Ng said:

Matt2134 said:

I am trying to modify my workflow for my paid work to make use of the raw conversion in PL9.

I would previously 'round trip' from C1 to Photoshop which is straightforward.

If I use PL9 instead of C1, I guess I just start with the raw file in PL9 with optical corrections and denoise, manually export to PS and save the further edited photo back to the same location.

My export options (other than jpeg) are either DNG with either optical corrections or all corrections, or a TIFF.

Why should I choose one of those over the other (DNG all corrections vs TIFF)

I assume TIFF will also bake in any denoise and sharpening the same as a DNG/all corrections?

Click to expand...

I remembered I tested this feature when I still subscribed to Photography Plan (PS/LrC), and the "Export as DNG" function produced a DNG but it was rendered with different colours on PS, i.e., not the same as in PL. Since then, I exported all my edits from PL as TIFFs to PS/LrC to retain the colour consistency, until I stopped subscribing to Adobe. Now I export TIFFs to Affinity Photo for further pixel processing.

Click to expand...

My tests are the same - DNG renders different colours. I will try to dig into why, posts below suggest it may be avoidable. thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Linear DNG is effectively a 16bit Tif without a defined white point. Any other editor will open the Linear DNG and apply its default white balance. This is where colour changes occur.

So if you like the colour of your DXO-Photolab initial edit, and there are a lot of options available in DXO-Photolab, then export a Tif. If you prefer the colour capability of your second editor, then use a Linear DNG.

Ian

Click to expand...

Thank you - great information

Click to expand...