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Latest M11-V Rumors
- Thread starter David Kieltyka
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MacOrneille
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Sounds more like a full-frame CL, which wouldn't be a bad thing but isn't an M.
The same as other Leica Ms w/o rangefinder, namely M1, MD, MDa, MD-2. All have an M-mount, including this M11-V eventually.
Best,
LCT
MasterOfGoingFaster
Senior Member
Leica has made M cameras without a rangefinder. Google Leica MDa.
I suspect the camera will offer "digital cropping" like the Q3, where the camera will show you what it can with the lens attached, then offer crops that are shown by framelines.
DenverSteve
Senior Member
It was built/intended for limited and specific use. It wasn't designed (or practical) for reportage, travel, family.... use. That's why it had a short life and even lower sales. A curiosity indeed.
bskbo
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, I also expect it to have an optical viewfinder with EVF overlay. Possibly 2 layers: a transparent oled and a on/off lcd that can either blacken the whole viewfinder to be able to see an EVF only view or partly blacken the centre of the viewfinder for a focuspatch that'll show a rangefinder like double image based upon the phase detection pixels of the sensor.
I don't think Leica will use a Fujifilm like solution with a mechanical curtain to use as a background for the EVF overlay, because those are prone to failure and part of the reason for this M11-V to exist is to get rid of mechanical parts.
I also think the framelines selector will be able to be used to show crops, like the Q3.
I really hope, that it will also be able to define your own framelines for focal lengths that don't have framelines now, like 40mm.
I also hope the optical viewfinder has a lower magnification, like 0.58 so that it's easier to use with glasses. Because the rangefinder patch is not limited anymore by the magnification of the viewfinder and can always have a higher magnification for more precise focussing. So a lower viewfinder magnification shouldn't be a problem for accurate focussing anymore.
MasterOfGoingFaster
Senior Member
Odd isn't it? My point is that Leica may have named the M for rangefinder, but that doesn't stop them from doing anything they want today. I'd prefer a new ID (QM?) rather than calling it a M. M means M-mount rangefinder to me. A M-mount camera with EVF should get it's own ID. It's not a M, and it's not a Q. QM?
But what if they produce a Q body with an L-mount (QL)? That would give us AF using L-mount lenses, and MF with M-mount lenses via adapter.
Would you rather have a QL or a QM?
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Rodenmg
Veteran Member
There are no phase detection pixels on the M sensors. That's for auto focus only.
bskbo
Forum Enthusiast
I thought the same, but Leica did make M-camera's without rangefinders. They did make a digital CL that didn't have a rangefinder, nor the M-mount, but the L-mount and an APS-C sensor. So, Leica doesn't seem to be very concerned about this kind of stuff.
A L mount Q styled body is what I’ve been rooting for - it would be quite capable with their existing adapter but would also allow use of their current line of L mount lenses.
DenverSteve
Senior Member
I think that's what a lot of us wanted with a CL ii camera put into the Q chassis with full-frame, ibis, AF and ICL... but Leica didn't go that direction.
Spitballing… I like others have pointed out that you really can’t have framelines with an EVF without cropping. Unless… what if the sensor is a 0.90 or so anti-crop? Full frame plus, with the edges used for framelines.
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Bsivad2020
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This is just so tedious. Leica has shown they aren't so hung up on semantics with the M1, with the revamped Summarits, with the various digital Summiluxes that aren't 1.4 ... the word Messucher may have given the M its name but that doesn't mean they won't use it for a camera that technically doesn't have one.
True about MD, MDa and MD-2 but the first M sans RF was the M1. It was just an entry model, a less expensive M2. It had no Messsucher of course but it was an M-mount camera with all features of the M2, if memory serves, bar the expensive rangefinder. Interesting to compare it with the M11-V which could well be an entry model too with its 64GB SSD. We shall see if its price is similar to the original M11. Another evidence, if needed, that an M camera can be designed without a rangefinder. FWIW.
Best,
LCT
DanseMacabre
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There is nothing in the German word Messsucher (measurement finder) that implies either that it has to be an analogue device or that it must involve two overlaid images. Literally anything that can be used to find the correct distance measurement can be named such and this includes digital focus aids in an electronic viewfinder.
Thus, a Leica M mount camera with digital focus aids in an EVF is 100% eligible to be called an M camera.
Total non-argument.
You better let Leica know then so they can change their website.
Interesting to see how Leica's marketing department will adapt their wording for the M11-V. They would continue to claim that the Messsucher is the historical origin of the “M” designation, i guess, but they could well emphasize the common point of the M mount as well. With a little luck, we might even get a lecture from Mr Karbe on the M1 and other M cameras sans RF 
Best,
LCT
Best,
LCT
New Leica with M mount could very well be given the QM name, it is a logical merge of two technologies, allowing our beloved M mount lenses to be used on a derivative of the Q series.
The sensor would be the same as the Q3, the camera would be manual focus but could well have the ability to use some of the AF tech that exists - for example when I had my Nikon Zf I could mount a Nikon Ais MF lens on the camera and get electronic viewfinder confirmation of correct focus including eye focus, the tech that is available today suggests that there is no reason why a new Leica QM couldn't do something similar.
The introduction of IBIS would be welcome, allowing us to use M mount lens in a similar way to an adapted M lens on the SL cameras, helpful for those like me who aren't as steady as they used to be.
There is so much that can be offered in this new camera, it could also be a test bed for future tech that appears in the M12.
I don't see the new camera being given a M designation, I think that Leica will keep M specifically for their rangefinder cameras, it will have a new name but with the M mount.
Which direction will Leica go? Only Leica really knows, but we can have a bit of fun and speculate away.
The sensor would be the same as the Q3, the camera would be manual focus but could well have the ability to use some of the AF tech that exists - for example when I had my Nikon Zf I could mount a Nikon Ais MF lens on the camera and get electronic viewfinder confirmation of correct focus including eye focus, the tech that is available today suggests that there is no reason why a new Leica QM couldn't do something similar.
The introduction of IBIS would be welcome, allowing us to use M mount lens in a similar way to an adapted M lens on the SL cameras, helpful for those like me who aren't as steady as they used to be.
There is so much that can be offered in this new camera, it could also be a test bed for future tech that appears in the M12.
I don't see the new camera being given a M designation, I think that Leica will keep M specifically for their rangefinder cameras, it will have a new name but with the M mount.
Which direction will Leica go? Only Leica really knows, but we can have a bit of fun and speculate away.
The Q is somewhat the opposite of an M camera in that it is a fixed lens camera and such a derivative would be inferior to the M-V in that it could not communicate with the focus cam of M and LTM lenses, when the opposite is true with any M-mount camera. Allows to trigger focus magnification by simply turning the focus ring of lenses, which my otherwise excellent Sony and Sigma cameras are incapable to.
Best,
LCT
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