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Mofongo

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Have you noticed that a year or so ago before everyone and there brother started getting interchangable lens DSLR's that cameras like the F717, D7i, C2100, S602, 5700 etc... were never refered to as P&S's (point and shoots)...probably cause it's not the correct term at all but now days it seems "fashionable" to dismiss all non interchangeable lens digital cameras as mere P&S's...

Because they have TTL ( EVF) viewfinders and all the manual controls as most interchangeable lens DSLR's they used to be refered to as prosumer cameras or advanced consumer cameras or high end digital cameras etc...

The term P&S was always aimed at little pocket size all automatic cameras with no manual control and little peephole paralex error viewfinders...

I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend as I have read others voicing displeasure with the new condensending term for all non DSLR cameras...

I don't think large sensor size, higher ISO's or interchangeable lenses or lack of have anything to do with a camera being a P&S...even DSLR's have a "P" mode

Wouldn't a point and shoot be a type of picture taker (a person) and not a type of camera? I have seen amazing creative works taken by people with non DSLR prosumer level cameras....

Thanks for listening, I've been meaning to vent this for a while now...

I feel better!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
 
I used to shoot a CP 990 put a lot of effort into learning the camera so I could take more creative photographs than I could if I just set in on automatic. I took great offense to slr shooters refering to it as a P&S camera. Could it be a P&S? yes, on automatic - so could my current camera, a D100 - so could a 35mm slr on automatic mode.

What people are always quick to forget is that the camera is just a tool that allows a photographer to create photographs.

Some people just need to get over themselves....

Bill
Mofongo said:
Have you noticed that a year or so ago before everyone and there
brother started getting interchangable lens DSLR's that cameras
like the F717, D7i, C2100, S602, 5700 etc... were never refered to
as P&S's (point and shoots)...probably cause it's not the correct
term at all but now days it seems "fashionable" to dismiss all non
interchangeable lens digital cameras as mere P&S's...

Because they have TTL ( EVF) viewfinders and all the manual
controls as most interchangeable lens DSLR's they used to be
refered to as prosumer cameras or advanced consumer cameras or high
end digital cameras etc...

The term P&S was always aimed at little pocket size all automatic
cameras with no manual control and little peephole paralex error
viewfinders...

I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend as I have read
others voicing displeasure with the new condensending term for all
non DSLR cameras...

I don't think large sensor size, higher ISO's or interchangeable
lenses or lack of have anything to do with a camera being a
P&S...even DSLR's have a "P" mode

Wouldn't a point and shoot be a type of picture taker (a person)
and not a type of camera? I have seen amazing creative works taken
by people with non DSLR prosumer level cameras....

Thanks for listening, I've been meaning to vent this for a while
now...

I feel better!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/mngatorguy
 
I've commented on this misuse of terminology a couple of times before. I refuse to use this 'P & S' term, as it is dismissive. I often refer to cameras with full controls but not interchangable lenses as 'all in one' cameras, or 'fixed lens cameras'. Some of them have more features and customization than my film or digital SLR's. I don't think about the technical details of how I'm shooting any less when using my Minolta D7 or F100 than with my Canon 10D or a film camera.
-David
Bill Moss said:
What people are always quick to forget is that the camera is just a
tool that allows a photographer to create photographs.

Some people just need to get over themselves....

Bill
Mofongo said:
Have you noticed that a year or so ago before everyone and there
brother started getting interchangable lens DSLR's that cameras
like the F717, D7i, C2100, S602, 5700 etc... were never refered to
as P&S's (point and shoots)...probably cause it's not the correct
term at all but now days it seems "fashionable" to dismiss all non
interchangeable lens digital cameras as mere P&S's...

Because they have TTL ( EVF) viewfinders and all the manual
controls as most interchangeable lens DSLR's they used to be
refered to as prosumer cameras or advanced consumer cameras or high
end digital cameras etc...

The term P&S was always aimed at little pocket size all automatic
cameras with no manual control and little peephole paralex error
viewfinders...

I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend as I have read
others voicing displeasure with the new condensending term for all
non DSLR cameras...

I don't think large sensor size, higher ISO's or interchangeable
lenses or lack of have anything to do with a camera being a
P&S...even DSLR's have a "P" mode

Wouldn't a point and shoot be a type of picture taker (a person)
and not a type of camera? I have seen amazing creative works taken
by people with non DSLR prosumer level cameras....

Thanks for listening, I've been meaning to vent this for a while
now...

I feel better!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/mngatorguy
Click to expand...
--
David



http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/home?userid= {F351C88E-FEF7-4892-9F30-9FD2DDD1593C}&tio=0tio=0&st=he&GUID={0AB0EAE9-1AF7-41AE-966B-588570432D96}&sent=stored
 
Actually Point and Shoot accurately describes how a vast number of people use their DSLRs, esp. much of the DRebel crowd.

I don't much care what anyone calls my camera. People who use a particular term to put down something "less" than a DSLR should remember that their DSLRs are cheap toys to people with medium and large format gear.

No one can put you down without your cooperation.
Mofongo said:
Have you noticed that a year or so ago before everyone and there
brother started getting interchangable lens DSLR's that cameras
like the F717, D7i, C2100, S602, 5700 etc... were never refered to
as P&S's (point and shoots)...probably cause it's not the correct
term at all but now days it seems "fashionable" to dismiss all non
interchangeable lens digital cameras as mere P&S's...

Because they have TTL ( EVF) viewfinders and all the manual
controls as most interchangeable lens DSLR's they used to be
refered to as prosumer cameras or advanced consumer cameras or high
end digital cameras etc...

The term P&S was always aimed at little pocket size all automatic
cameras with no manual control and little peephole paralex error
viewfinders...

I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend as I have read
others voicing displeasure with the new condensending term for all
non DSLR cameras...

I don't think large sensor size, higher ISO's or interchangeable
lenses or lack of have anything to do with a camera being a
P&S...even DSLR's have a "P" mode

Wouldn't a point and shoot be a type of picture taker (a person)
and not a type of camera? I have seen amazing creative works taken
by people with non DSLR prosumer level cameras....

Thanks for listening, I've been meaning to vent this for a while
now...

I feel better!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
Click to expand...
 
People could call my C5050z a disposable for all I care. Just because my friend has a Canon Digital Rebel with a special lens doesn't mean that he is taking better photos, just means he has more disposable income. The only reason he bought his camera was to brag that he has a DSLR. If it's important to you, challenge people that call 'prosumer' just a point and shoot to pick one of you photos out of a bunch of DSLR photos, odd's are they won't be able to.

It's very similar to people having Photoshop, it's a status thing. I use Photoshop professionally and do use the majority of it's features. I know so many people that have Photoshop and don't have a clue how to use it.
 
I don't know, I've always said you can call me anything you want, except late for dinner.

To me, there is a clear dividing line between large sensor and small sensor cameras. I tend to refer to all small-sensor cameras as P&S. It's not so much a dismissal, as a convenient label. I own several P&S cameras, and have turned out work I am proud of with them.

Or maybe it is a dismissal -- I have to admit, I have a hard time accepting a camera as anything beyond a point and shoot when it can't shoot at ISO400 or above without unacceptably high levels of noise. If you don't ever shoot available light, this argument might sound like nonsense, but if you do, you know what I'm talking about.

Look at it another way -- back in the film days, you could buy the least expensive SLR and still get good performance under a wide range of lighting conditions, depending on the film you loaded. But with digital, you're stuck with the performance of the original sensor.

I think the P&S label is sticking for some good reasons. But at the end of the day, it's just a label. Who cares what people call your camera -- it's the pictures that count!!

One last note -- if you think the P&S label is bad, how can you stomach "prosumer?" What the heck is a prosumer? I think THAT's the dumbest term to come down the pike in a long time. . .

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp
Mofongo said:
Have you noticed that a year or so ago before everyone and there
brother started getting interchangable lens DSLR's that cameras
like the F717, D7i, C2100, S602, 5700 etc... were never refered to
as P&S's (point and shoots)...probably cause it's not the correct
term at all but now days it seems "fashionable" to dismiss all non
interchangeable lens digital cameras as mere P&S's...

Because they have TTL ( EVF) viewfinders and all the manual
controls as most interchangeable lens DSLR's they used to be
refered to as prosumer cameras or advanced consumer cameras or high
end digital cameras etc...

The term P&S was always aimed at little pocket size all automatic
cameras with no manual control and little peephole paralex error
viewfinders...

I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend as I have read
others voicing displeasure with the new condensending term for all
non DSLR cameras...

I don't think large sensor size, higher ISO's or interchangeable
lenses or lack of have anything to do with a camera being a
P&S...even DSLR's have a "P" mode

Wouldn't a point and shoot be a type of picture taker (a person)
and not a type of camera? I have seen amazing creative works taken
by people with non DSLR prosumer level cameras....

Thanks for listening, I've been meaning to vent this for a while
now...

I feel better!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
Click to expand...
 
Prosumer is a term that was either invented by 1) some marketing weenie at some camera company, or 2) someone who is "serious" about photography and "dreams of going pro." It is designed to make them feel more important because their gear has an important-sounding label.

I think it's silly too.
pgrupp said:
I don't know, I've always said you can call me anything you want,
except late for dinner.

To me, there is a clear dividing line between large sensor and
small sensor cameras. I tend to refer to all small-sensor cameras
as P&S. It's not so much a dismissal, as a convenient label. I own
several P&S cameras, and have turned out work I am proud of with
them.

Or maybe it is a dismissal -- I have to admit, I have a hard time
accepting a camera as anything beyond a point and shoot when it
can't shoot at ISO400 or above without unacceptably high levels of
noise. If you don't ever shoot available light, this argument might
sound like nonsense, but if you do, you know what I'm talking about.

Look at it another way -- back in the film days, you could buy the
least expensive SLR and still get good performance under a wide
range of lighting conditions, depending on the film you loaded. But
with digital, you're stuck with the performance of the original
sensor.

I think the P&S label is sticking for some good reasons. But at the
end of the day, it's just a label. Who cares what people call your
camera -- it's the pictures that count!!

One last note -- if you think the P&S label is bad, how can you
stomach "prosumer?" What the heck is a prosumer? I think THAT's the
dumbest term to come down the pike in a long time. . .

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp
Click to expand...
 
AcuraCL said:
Prosumer is a term that was either invented by 1) some marketing
weenie at some camera company, or 2) someone who is "serious" about
photography and "dreams of going pro." It is designed to make them
feel more important because their gear has an important-sounding
label.

I think it's silly too.
Click to expand...
I don't have any problem describing my Fuji S304 as a "point and shooter". Even though it's capable of a deal more than that! But for sure, when I take it with me to the Christmas Ball I'm attending on on Monday night - because I'm having a rare night away from my S2 and kitchen-sink's worth of gear - I'm NOT intending to make a complete ninny of myself by describing the S304 as my "prosumer" camera! Labels only apply if you choose to stick them on yourself.
Roz
 
I consider it to be a case of what was the camera designed for. Most non-interchangeable lens cameras were designed to point and shoot. They may have more advanced features, but that is what they were designed for.

DSLRs on the other hand (Drebel may be exception) was designed for Manual mode. most of them have a P&S mode, but that is not what they were designed for.

I usually don't consider the Sony F828 in the same class as P&S, instead I consider it a low-light semi-pro camera, meaning it takes great pictures in low light that I would otherwise need a flash and the most likely user is the part-time pro or high-level amatuer.

But that is just me. I have a Canon D60, 10D and a Kodak DC4800 for cameras, My kodak is a P&S, but I still occasionally use it, because it does things my DSLR won't.

The terms to me mean what was the camera designed for not how it is used.
--
Quality is in the setup, Quantity ensures one good shot.
 
Tim Dolan said:
Tim Dolan wrote:
I consider it to be a case of what was the camera designed for.
Most non-interchangeable lens cameras were designed to point and
shoot. They may have more advanced features, but that is what they
were designed for.
Click to expand...
I disagree...if fixed lens cameras were designed with manual exposure modes, shutter priority, aperature priority and full manual than they were designed to be used for creative photgraphy, not just pointing and shooting...other wise they would have been designed with only an auto program mode...although many do only use them in auto mode...
Tim Dolan said:
DSLRs on the other hand (Drebel may be exception) was designed for
Manual mode. most of them have a P&S mode, but that is not what
they were designed for.
Click to expand...
DSLR's also have both program mode and manual modes and many only use them in auto modes...not just the rebel...DSLR's were designed to see through the lens...
Tim Dolan said:
I usually don't consider the Sony F828 in the same class as P&S,
instead I consider it a low-light semi-pro camera, meaning it takes
great pictures in low light that I would otherwise need a flash and
the most likely user is the part-time pro or high-level amatuer.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, the F828 does look like it will be a great advanced fix lens camera and I have to laugh whenever I hear most people refer to it as a P&S...
Tim Dolan said:
But that is just me. I have a Canon D60, 10D and a Kodak DC4800 for
cameras, My kodak is a P&S, but I still occasionally use it,
because it does things my DSLR won't.
Click to expand...
Again, the DC4800 was designed with 16 second shutter speeds (what point and shooter would need that?), aperture and shutter priority, exposure compensation and other advanced features...
Tim Dolan said:
The terms to me mean what was the camera designed for not how it is
used.
Click to expand...
Exactly! If it's designed with manual exposure features, I wouldn't call it a P&S although many people may use it in auto mode till they learn the creative modes...

What it is called doesn't really matter but many do find it condensending and dismissive to have there cameras with full manual control and advanced features called P&S's just cause they don't take interchangeable lenses...
--
--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
 
Paul Grupp said:
pgrupp wrote:

Or maybe it is a dismissal -- I have to admit, I have a hard time
accepting a camera as anything beyond a point and shoot when it
can't shoot at ISO400 or above without unacceptably high levels of
noise. If you don't ever shoot available light, this argument might
sound like nonsense, but if you do, you know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
I figured it was really a term of dismissal...it's obvious...I love to shoot available light with my non DSLR's....great results and I don't do it by pointing and shooting...I take my time and use a tripod...I usually use the lowest ISO and get clean results...sure for action shots this is a different story but still has nothing to do with being a P&S...
Paul Grupp said:
I think the P&S label is sticking for some good reasons. But at the
end of the day, it's just a label. Who cares what people call your
camera -- it's the pictures that count!!
Click to expand...
It seems to be sticking cause it let's people with DSLR's feel superior...it is a negative label they can use for anyone without one...

I agree wholeheartedly that the picture is what counts...
Paul Grupp said:
One last note -- if you think the P&S label is bad, how can you
stomach "prosumer?" What the heck is a prosumer? I think THAT's the
dumbest term to come down the pike in a long time. . .
Click to expand...
I also agree with you here...who thought up that name? I think prosumer means people like us who are "professional consumers" of digital cameras and always upgrading...LOL

Regards and happy shooting!

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
 
parklifer said:
I don't have any problem describing my Fuji S304 as a "point and
shooter". Even though it's capable of a deal more than that! But
for sure, when I take it with me to the Christmas Ball I'm
attending on on Monday night - because I'm having a rare night away
from my S2 and kitchen-sink's worth of gear - I'm NOT intending to
make a complete ninny of myself by describing the S304 as my
"prosumer" camera! Labels only apply if you choose to stick them on
yourself.
Click to expand...
Roz,

I agree that the term prosumer is pretty lame...I would never use it either in public...LOL...

Have a great time at the Christmas Ball and get some nice shots with your...er...Camera! (yea, that's it!)

Regards,

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
 
Bill Moss said:
Bill Moss wrote:
I used to shoot a CP 990 put a lot of effort into learning the
camera so I could take more creative photographs than I could if I
just set in on automatic. I took great offense to slr shooters
refering to it as a P&S camera. Could it be a P&S? yes, on
automatic - so could my current camera, a D100 - so could a 35mm
slr on automatic mode.

What people are always quick to forget is that the camera is just a
tool that allows a photographer to create photographs.

Some people just need to get over themselves....
Click to expand...
Bill, I agree...I always admired the Nikons swivel design as it helped in being creative with the different angles you could get, definately not a P&S...I still may pick up a 990 some day...

Regards,

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo
 
Nope, that's been used. The arrogant bunch has had to get snooty about the digirebel as well, you'll catch some of them refering to the lower priced (comparatively) dslrs as prosumer as well.
 
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