My 717 images lacking contrast.

MTT · Dec 1, 2003

I don't know if its my personal preference on how an image should look or my 717 just lacks contrast on it images, but my 717 images just look to plain to me.

Here's is an image right out of the camera, no post processing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805620

Same image except I added contrast +20 using PSE. Big difference.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

Just about all the images from my 717 needs contrast added to improve the quality of the images. Is this normal for this camera?

Mark.

Kelvinz · Dec 1, 2003

I think its your personal preferance, the modified picture looks very artificial.

MTT said:
I don't know if its my personal preference on how an image should
look or my 717 just lacks contrast on it images, but my 717 images
just look to plain to me.

Here's is an image right out of the camera, no post processing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805620

Same image except I added contrast +20 using PSE. Big difference.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

Just about all the images from my 717 needs contrast added to
improve the quality of the images. Is this normal for this camera?

Mark.

MTT · Dec 1, 2003

Kelvinz said:
I think its your personal preferance, the modified picture looks
very artificial.

I agree, I think it is mostly preferance. You think I added to much contrast, or I should not add any at all.

Thanks,

Mark.

Kelvinz said:
MTT said:

I don't know if its my personal preference on how an image should
look or my 717 just lacks contrast on it images, but my 717 images
just look to plain to me.

Here's is an image right out of the camera, no post processing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805620

Same image except I added contrast +20 using PSE. Big difference.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

Just about all the images from my 717 needs contrast added to
improve the quality of the images. Is this normal for this camera?

Mark.

Click to expand...

Matthew Cromer · Dec 1, 2003

Yes, you need to add contrast to most of them. That's a good thing because it means more dynamic range in camera.
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

MTT · Dec 1, 2003

Hi Matthew,

I'm glad it's the nature of the best and not a defect. As long as I can make the image look good to my eyes, I won't be complaining. I was just curious.

Thanks,

Mark.

Matthew Cromer said:
Yes, you need to add contrast to most of them. That's a good thing
because it means more dynamic range in camera.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Cyber7 · Dec 1, 2003

MTT said:
I'm glad it's the nature of the best and not a defect. As long as I
can make the image look good to my eyes, I won't be complaining. I
was just curious.

Thanks,

Mark.

Matthew Cromer said:

Yes, you need to add contrast to most of them. That's a good thing
because it means more dynamic range in camera.
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Click to expand...

I've noticed the same thing for quite a while. I would boost the saturation some and boost the contrast some also to get what I think is a more realistic coloration. I also sharpen some usually. It seems to remove the "haze" or whatever you want to call it from the picture. But end result is a very pleasing picture.

MTT · Dec 2, 2003

Cyber7 said:
I've noticed the same thing for quite a while. I would boost the
saturation some and boost the contrast some also to get what I
think is a more realistic coloration. I also sharpen some usually.
It seems to remove the "haze" or whatever you want to call it from
the picture. But end result is a very pleasing picture.

I can usually make the pictures look better using PSE then what comes out of the camera. And like you said, the end results are very pleasing. But, I get the impression that the image the 717 produce is what people prefer. That way they can modify the image to there liking. Personally, I prefer the best image possible from my camera, not a contrast lacking image. That way I can spend less time post processing my images and more time doing something else. Maybe it's better that way and I'm just to picky or lazy. But, as long as the images are clear, I can deal with it.

Thanks,

Mark.

Matthew Cromer · Dec 2, 2003

MTT,

It's true that the images would look more pleasing if Sony applied more contrast in camera. And it would be good to provide that option, as they do with their newer prosumer cameras.

But if you shoot with high contrast, you will very often damage the capture of scenes with a lot of dynamic range (like outdoor images on a sunny day). The 717 handles those scenes better than any competing prosumer digicam, IMO, and the flat contrast has a lot to do with it.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

MTT · Dec 2, 2003

Matthew Cromer said:
MTT,

It's true that the images would look more pleasing if Sony applied
more contrast in camera. And it would be good to provide that
option, as they do with their newer prosumer cameras.

But if you shoot with high contrast, you will very often damage the
capture of scenes with a lot of dynamic range (like outdoor images
on a sunny day). The 717 handles those scenes better than any
competing prosumer digicam, IMO, and the flat contrast has a lot to
do with it.

Thanks Matthew for your explanation. I see what your saying here. It would be easier to add contrast to an image then try to repair an image that's been damaged by to much contrast. Like I said I was just curious and plus I didn't realized you can use this to your advantage when post processing your images.

Thanks,

Mark.

Matthew Cromer said:
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

BillyBoy02 · Dec 2, 2003

Hi Mark, I haven't had a digi cam yet that didn't need the contrast boosted some,don't worry about. I usually find that boosting the contrast up by "10" is enough but sometimes more is needed. Everything in moderation,so I try to restrain myself but I don't think you went overboard on that second pic. I think it could have used some sharpening as well and maybe a very slight saturation.

If you look at my gallery you'll see that this kind of landscape is right up my alley. The first thing that came to mind when I saw that pic was reclaimed strip mine land. Then I saw that mound of dirt in the background and reinforced that idea. that whole area around that farmhouse was striped for coal ?

I live in western Pa and this looks like Pa country or close to it... am I right ?

Oh another thing, taking photos in harsh mid day lighting will also produce results like that IMO that need more contrasting

--
Bill C
http://www.golfballs2000.com/gallery.html
Sony V1,Olympus E-10,Sony F717

Karta Purkh khalsa · Dec 2, 2003

Usually the color range comes out pretty close to what I think I saw when I took the image. If not, I always always always do the Automatic Level first. This will usually make a warm scene cooler or a cool scene warmer. If that doesn't obtain the results, then I try the manual Levels with the Histogram thingy which you can adjust endlessly from midtones to the extremes of dark and light. Last resort should be brightness & contrast. Someone once said this adjustment does the most damage to to an image forcing a lot of readjustment and even a "new" image to work with.
I dunno, level adjustment's worth playing with, I think.

BillyBoy02 said:
Hi Mark, I haven't had a digi cam yet that didn't need the contrast
boosted some,don't worry about. I usually find that boosting the
contrast up by "10" is enough but sometimes more is needed.
Everything in moderation,so I try to restrain myself but I don't
think you went overboard on that second pic. I think it could have
used some sharpening as well and maybe a very slight saturation.
If you look at my gallery you'll see that this kind of landscape is
right up my alley. The first thing that came to mind when I saw
that pic was reclaimed strip mine land. Then I saw that mound of
dirt in the background and reinforced that idea. that whole area
around that farmhouse was striped for coal ?
I live in western Pa and this looks like Pa country or close to
it... am I right ?
Oh another thing, taking photos in harsh mid day lighting will also
produce results like that IMO that need more contrasting

--
Bill C
http://www.golfballs2000.com/gallery.html
Sony V1,Olympus E-10,Sony F717

--
'Human dignity is more precious than prestige.' C.McKay

KartaPurkh Khalsa

MTT · Dec 2, 2003

BillyBoy02 said:
Hi Mark, I haven't had a digi cam yet that didn't need the contrast
boosted some,don't worry about. I usually find that boosting the
contrast up by "10" is enough but sometimes more is needed.
Everything in moderation,so I try to restrain myself but I don't
think you went overboard on that second pic. I think it could have
used some sharpening as well and maybe a very slight saturation.

Hi Bill,

My second pic was an example of what the image could look like if the camera had took the picture with more contrast. I didn't do anything to the image except add contrast. I agree, I think the second image needs more tweaking and I need more practice post processing my images. So, I appreciate all the advice you and the other are giving me. I bought my PSE just a couple of months ago and I haven't been spending as much time as I should learning how to use it. Heres the same image using auto setting in PSE.

Auto setting http://www.pbase.com/image/23724350

Second image http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

BillyBoy02 said:
If you look at my gallery you'll see that this kind of landscape is
right up my alley.

Great pictures. I didn't get a chance to look at them all, it takes time to look at all those images when your using dial up. But what I have seen I really like.

BillyBoy02 said:
The first thing that came to mind when I saw
that pic was reclaimed strip mine land. Then I saw that mound of
dirt in the background and reinforced that idea. that whole area
around that farmhouse was striped for coal ?
I live in western Pa and this looks like Pa country or close to
it... am I right ?

So close, it was taken in Frostburg Maryland. You know your landscape. I was there back in July visiting my wife family. It's a long drive from Kentucky.

BillyBoy02 said:
Oh another thing, taking photos in harsh mid day lighting will also
produce results like that IMO that need more contrasting

This image was taken 5:58 PM. But, being in july, the sun was still bright and high in the sky.

Thanks,

Mark.

BillyBoy02 said:
--
Bill C
http://www.golfballs2000.com/gallery.html
Sony V1,Olympus E-10,Sony F717

MTT · Dec 2, 2003

KartaPurkh Khalsa said:
Usually the color range comes out pretty close to what I think I
saw when I took the image. If not, I always always always do the
Automatic Level first. This will usually make a warm scene cooler
or a cool scene warmer. If that doesn't obtain the results, then I
try the manual Levels with the Histogram thingy which you can
adjust endlessly from midtones to the extremes of dark and light.

Auto levels is the first thing I try when post processing my images. Then I will tweak them from there. I started messing with the Histogram thingy Sunday night, but I'm not sure how to set my images using the Histogram. If you or anyone have any suggestions on how to use the Histogram, I would love to here it. Heres the same image using auto setting.

Auto setting http://www.pbase.com/image/23724350

Second image http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

Karta Purkh khalsa said:
Last resort should be brightness & contrast. Someone once said this
adjustment does the most damage to to an image forcing a lot of
readjustment and even a "new" image to work with.
I dunno, level adjustment's worth playing with, I think.

I think your right. I notice that changing the levels will give the same effect as adding contrast. I just need to practice.

Thanks,

Mark.

Karta Purkh khalsa said:
KartaPurkh Khalsa

Floating_Fotoman · Dec 2, 2003

I'll second the notion that midday full sun pictures are hard to pull off. If you look at most of the best landscape pictures, you'll see long shadows because the best light is early morning and evening. If the sky is fileld with broken clouds that partially cover the sun, that can also make a spectacular light effect.

This picture had had absolutely no post processing; it was taken with my 717 just before sunset:

The same scene at midday was gruesomely stark and colorless.

Once your light is good, the next most important thing is to properly expose, which is pretty easy with Sony's accurate metering. Your pictures look to be well exposed.

As a last resort, you can use the histogram to spread the information out a bit. This picture had a faded look until I moved the end sliders on the histogram to spread the midtone information across the range:

Keep it up, it looks like you've found some good subject material. I'd like to see a picture taken of the same scene with different light. Stormy sky? Morning with mist?

regards

--

My gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/thabear

Greg Biggs63409 · Dec 3, 2003

I like the ones with less contrast because when you increase contrast you lose detail. Notice the grass in the foreground as to how dark it gets and the clouds begin to become more white with less detail than in the one without contrast. I know they stand out more with extra contrast, but they do not represent what was really there as well as the original.

MTT said:
I don't know if its my personal preference on how an image should
look or my 717 just lacks contrast on it images, but my 717 images
just look to plain to me.

Here's is an image right out of the camera, no post processing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805620

Same image except I added contrast +20 using PSE. Big difference.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

Just about all the images from my 717 needs contrast added to
improve the quality of the images. Is this normal for this camera?

Mark.

--
PCI

jr60004 · Dec 3, 2003

I have only had our 717 for one summer. We made two camping trips deep into Wisconsin. Both times it was cloudy all weekend.
thanks for sharing
Mikeeee

--
We want fun 'cos we medically need it! ~~A.W.K.~~

MTT · Dec 3, 2003

jr60004 said:
I have only had our 717 for one summer. We made two camping trips
deep into Wisconsin. Both times it was cloudy all weekend.

Just curious, what happen to your 717? Did you loose it on your camping trip?

jr60004 said:
thanks for sharing

No problem,

Mark.

jr60004 said:
Mikeeee

--
We want fun 'cos we medically need it! ~~A.W.K.~~

MTT · Dec 3, 2003

Floating_Fotoman said:
I'll second the notion that midday full sun pictures are hard to
pull off. If you look at most of the best landscape pictures,
you'll see long shadows because the best light is early morning and
evening. If the sky is fileld with broken clouds that partially
cover the sun, that can also make a spectacular light effect.

I agree, the location of the sun does seem to make a difference. Here's one I took on the Ohio River. The first image with no adjustments made to it. It was taken approx. 3:00 PM on a cloudy day.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23857629

I thought this image also lack contrast so I let PSE do some auto fine tuning to it. I think it looks better.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23857713

Floating_Fotoman said:
This picture had had absolutely no post processing; it was taken
with my 717 just before sunset:

The same scene at midday was gruesomely stark and colorless.

Nice shot. You have a great eye for taking pictures.

Floating_Fotoman said:
Once your light is good, the next most important thing is to
properly expose, which is pretty easy with Sony's accurate
metering. Your pictures look to be well exposed.

As a last resort, you can use the histogram to spread the
information out a bit. This picture had a faded look until I moved
the end sliders on the histogram to spread the midtone information
across the range:

Floating_Fotoman said:

What direction did you move the sliders? Again nice shot. Can I see the original.

Floating_Fotoman said:
Keep it up, it looks like you've found some good subject material.
I'd like to see a picture taken of the same scene with different
light. Stormy sky? Morning with mist?

I wish I could with this image, but since I live approx. 450 miles away from this farm, it makes it kind of tough. Hopefully next year I can take another shot at it at different times of the day.

Thanks for your input,

Mark.

Floating_Fotoman said:
regards

--

My gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/thabear

MTT · Dec 3, 2003

Greg Biggs said:
I like the ones with less contrast because when you increase
contrast you lose detail. Notice the grass in the foreground as to
how dark it gets and the clouds begin to become more white with
less detail than in the one without contrast. I know they stand out
more with extra contrast, but they do not represent what was really
there as well as the original.

Hi Greg,

I have notice that. When you add contrast, the white will become more white. I notice that on my waterfall pictures that I took using a slow shutter speed. If you add contrast to the image, you will loose some detail in the water, which is not good. On my farmhouse image, I added a bit more contrast then I should. I was using it for an example.

Did you see this image,

http://www.pbase.com/image/23724350

as compaired to my second image

http://www.pbase.com/image/23805559

I let PSE do auto adjustments on this image. The clouds are still white, but the grass is lighter. What do you think,

Mark.

Zaphod · Dec 3, 2003

I suppose I am becoming an evangelist for advocating the use of lens hoods!

If you are not already using one, spend the big $6 and get a hood. It can really enhance contrast even in pictures like the one you posted. I keep one on my F717 95% of the time and just fold it back when I store it in my bag.

Starting with a better image is almost always better than trying to adjust it in PS.

-Z

My 717 images lacking contrast.

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