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The REAL problem with the 300D is this.......

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DavidP said:
Yes, it's been crippled. It was done so to differentiate it from
the more expensive 10D. Marketing 101. Hopefully people knew
this BEFORE buying the 300D.
Click to expand...
I knew some part of the story.. but Ithought it was going to work according to the advertizing and manual. I was not expecting the AI focus to be so temperamental. nor the metering to be so difficult to control.

but now all this talk about metering have made me wonder about something else..what happen if you use evaluative metering and you want to lock the exposure? no can do because once you press that AEL button you lock the exposure Ok but it is becoming partial metering once you press that button...so how to lock the evaluative metering?

just curious :)
DavidP #28649 said:
Daniella said:
nobody is calling it a bad camera...just a crippled one, but hey,
it's true.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Click to expand...
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
JJ.SHOOTER said:
CRIPPLED, you have worn that word out. You seem like a nice person
and have much to offer this forum, but this constant babble about a
crippled camera is getting to be a pain. YOU have made the
statement, its ONLY a camera, you talk as if it is a person.
Click to expand...
sorry, I am not English so please tell me the correct term to use then?
james j cash said:
I have read most of the threads, some of the so called problems are
resolved in other ways but YOU dont want to do them that way, you
just keep on calling the camera, crippled.
Click to expand...
I will use the work around that I can for sure...like the mono jack and the DOF preview button. I have the chance that both of my lenses are not too big so I can still press that button while holding the lens.

for the metering, I still have totaly underexposed or overexposed photos on regular basis..I just discard them and hope they are not the best moments.

BTW..if you are so tired of my complains, why do you read my posts at all?
james j cash said:
You know if I felt the way you do I would do something, I'd SELL IT
and buy that perfect camera thats out there, WHICH ONE IS THAT? Jim
Click to expand...
10D
 
Daniella68313 said:
it is probably a user error if the evaluative meetering behave
different wether you use one point focusing or 7
Click to expand...
Well, that's pretty normal, assuming that more than one focus point ends up getting selected. The evaluative tries to take into consideration what it thinks is the subject.
Daniella68313 said:
it is probably a
user error if you have the AI servo kicking when you have sight
camera shake yet it does not kick in for flying birds.
Click to expand...
AI-Focus was the dumbest thing Canon ever came up with. If you're not bright enough to know when to use One-Shot or AI-Servo, pass on the DSLR. Not "you", but the generic you.
Daniella68313 said:
it is a very
much user mistake if you get photos that are totaly underexposed,
or totaly overexposed...after all, the metering is not meant to be
used on the 300d. Everybody knows that you should use the manual
mode and manual focus with a DSLR! the only user error here is to
rely on the camera metering.
Click to expand...
Have to compare that to any other Canon DSLR metering system. In general, it works pretty well. Though nobody's got one that can figure out when you're shooting a white cat in the snow just yet.
Daniella68313 said:
BTW, if you use evaluative metering and you want to lock the
metering, what happen? since you must then press the AEL button
and that then switch the metering to partial, we can never lock the
evaluative metering :)))
Click to expand...
Does seem kinda silly, doesn't it.

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
they must be really good..you really talk like a pro. so where are they?

aklso you have not answered my question about this?
Steve Norton190199 said:
Steve Norton190199 said:
BTW, if you use evaluative metering and you want to lock the
metering, what happen?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
since you must then press the AEL button
Steve Norton190199 said:
Steve Norton190199 said:
and that then switch the metering to partial, we can never lock the
evaluative metering :)))
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Daniella68313 said:
I knew some part of the story.. but Ithought it was going to work
according to the advertizing and manual. I was not expecting the
AI focus to be so temperamental. nor the metering to be so
difficult to control.
Click to expand...
Well, I predicted problems of this nature . . . right here on this very forum. But then I'm just a Canon-basher. ;)
Daniella68313 said:
but now all this talk about metering have made me wonder about
something else..what happen if you use evaluative metering and you
want to lock the exposure? no can do because once you press that
AEL button you lock the exposure Ok but it is becoming partial
metering once you press that button...so how to lock the evaluative
metering?
Click to expand...
That's a pretty silly design, really. And it certainly wouldn't be covered in the normal sales literature . . . you'd have to download the actual manual and read it carefully to really know this ahead of time.

To me, "exposure lock" should lock the exposure you've got picked at the moment . . . not recalculate the exposure using some other method first.

But, hey, I'm just too logical. ;)

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
Were you shooting slides with the Elan?

If not, judging the actual exposure is a bit difficult. Unless you're really good at reading negatives.
BIO said:
At this stage cameras should be able to expose 99% of shots
correctly with evaluative metering. Hell my old EOS Elan with its 6
zone metering got it right most of the time. The 300D should be
programed to figure out what U R shooting. Years of feeding in
shots into computers to generate algorithms by R&D should have
created some consistant exposures.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
Michael Friedman said:
Photoshop Elements is a perfect example. I can almost guarantee
that it uses the same source code as the full version of Photoshop,
but with some of the features not active. One way to do this is
simply by commenting out pieces of the code.
Click to expand...
oh yes sure..but to limit the hardware possibility is like making a performance car and omit the 5th speed..so that the car in 4th speed can only reach 100kmh.
Michael Friedman said:
Would you say that Elements is a "crippled" version of Photoshop?
Click to expand...
yes it is. Or else I am not sure what is the proper term for that. I have taken the term crippled because that is a term that I often read about camera that have features intentionaly removed, when the hardware is capable of doing such features.

I
Michael Friedman said:
suppose you could, but given the fact that it sells for what...
around a third the cost of the full product, why would you expect
it to have all the same features available?
Click to expand...
I beleive that the firmware is a software that control a hardware...the possibilities should be limited by this hardware, not by the software.
Michael Friedman said:
The company I work for uses a similar approach and so do many, many
others. So why rail against Canon for removing features to sell a
less expensive product?
Click to expand...
Because it just does not work. I would not mind if it was working according to their manual and advertizing...but it does not.
Michael Friedman said:
Features vs. pricepoint is a standard in every industry. There is
nothing evil about it unless the company is out to deceive its
customers.
Click to expand...
well, yes that's what I think they did. Have you read their brochure? read it and you will see what I mean. check out http://www.canoneos.com . the brochure is there along with a load of advertizing as this:

"Whether you're new to digital cameras, SLR cameras, or even photography itself, you'll find that the EOS Digital Rebel is a fun companion you'll want to bring everywhere. Easy access to SLR techniques will make you a better photographer right away, and make it easy and fun to learn more about photography as you go."

doesn't that sounds line fun already? :)

http://www.canoneos.com/digitalrebel/operation/index.html

and for the Manual mode they write:

"Let you take complete control of every system whenever you want."

every system??? I beleive that should include focusing, right? what about AI servo? what is that every system they are refering too?
 
Daniella68313 said:
BTW..if you are so tired of my complains, why do you read my posts
at all?
Click to expand...
As I said, I think you have a lot to offer the forum you have many very good photos. I dont think going on and on about something is productive, it gets infectous and the nit picking gets bigger and bigger and soon no one wants to be on the forum, everything goes to hell. I know I've been on other forums [not photo] but its all the same.

I think that some feel that all the bitching thats going on is going to get canon to do something, it isn't.

I have never had a camera that was prefect and when I was in photo. I had some good cameras. I dont know of a better camera than the 300d for the price, do you. Good Luck Jim
--

My first language is English, my second is, trying to get the first one right. Photography is a reflection of the heart and mind. JJC
 
DavidP said:
To me, "exposure lock" should lock the exposure you've got picked
at the moment . . . not recalculate the exposure using some other
method first.

But, hey, I'm just too logical. ;)
Click to expand...
duh..to me as well..so there is actualy NO way to lock the current exposure :))) loughable..or not..
DavidP #28649 said:
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Click to expand...
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
I agree that the term "crippled" is appropriate here. It's been used for years to indicate something that's been "dumbed down" or "castrated" to reach a price point.

The two really stupid things, IMO, with the cripping of the 300D are these:

1) AI-Focus only in some modes. AI-Focus has got to be the dumbest thing Canon ever came up with. Certainly not appropriate for a DSLR to have certain modes locked into that.

2) Exposure Lock defaulting to Partial Metering . . . it should simply lock whatever exposure you have.

I would also add that forcing certain exposure modes in certain shooting modes is also stupid. Tv, Av, and M should have unlimited choices for focusing and exposure modes . . . . eg, all the ones that are available on the camera. Leaving off spot-metering is OK.

The crippling should've been only things like no DOF preview, no mirror lockup, no custom functions, no ability to shoot RAW+JPG, etc.
Michael Friedman said:
The company I work for uses a similar approach and so do many, many
others. So why rail against Canon for removing features to sell a
less expensive product?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
GOOD POINT! Too many people complain of the restricted features of the DR but think about how many companies truly do this. Bringing up processors was a good analogy. Anyone who has ever overclocked a processor knows that Intel sells the same chip off the same manufacturing line but locked at different speeds to provide a wide range of price points for every consumer. Video card manufacturers do the same thing, locking down clock/memory speed to provide a lower priced card to those who can't afford the cream of the crop. Doesn't it make sense that Canon would do the same thing? With all of the computer related examples, it's been possible to undo the limit set by the manufacturer and overclock to the full potential of the hardware. Now, who's gonna figure out how to "overclock" these things and unlock their full potential? :)
hypnosteve said:
Most of the people who post on this forum don't know how to:

A.Take a decent photo
B. Use photoshop
C. Be patient and give there camera time so that they understand
how it works before they call it a bad camera.

Question: Why is this happening now?
Answer: The new Sony 828 is about to hit the shelves soon and is in
fact now on sale in Germany. Also the announcement of the new Nikon
has got people going also.

Whenever people hear about the new big things coming up they want
to have it and always think it will be better than what they
already have. They get sucked in to it. They are new big thing
junkies. Now they are saying that the Rebel doesn't have this or
that. I find this a challenge rather than a hinderance. Maybe some
people should have stayed with P&S.

It was hardly a secret. I bought the Rebel with my eyes wide open
and I have no qualms with what I got for my £786 in fact I am
delighted. The money I saved from not getting the 10D got me a
28-135IS and a 550EX speedlite.They more than compensate for
features that I find I don't need to get great photos.

It makes me laugh when people post on this forun as if they are a
pro and that they can't get away with the "crippled" Rebel. Pro's
don't use Rebels! How is it every review either the internet or
magazine has the Rebel as a clear winner in both photo quality and
price? The reason is because it is quite simply the best buy DSLR
in the world.

Will the Nikon be better?
Probably, but isn't that always the case? Aren't new computer
processors getting better all the time? By the time the Nikon comes
out the rebel will be old in technology terms so you would hope to
see improvements. Why not ask YOURSELF though, how can I improve as
a photographer. Take a look at yourself!

Just because new cams are coming out soon don't slag off the Rebel
. In fact take it out for the day and take some photos with it
until you know what you are doing with it. Try to see if you can
redefine the limits of the camera rather than blaming it for your
poor photos.

And finally! If you have nothing to say but negative gripes about
the Rebel don't bother posting them here. We don't want you.

Steve
Happy Rebel owner
Click to expand...
 
JJ.SHOOTER said:
james j cash said:
BTW..if you are so tired of my complains, why do you read my posts
at all?
Click to expand...
As I said, I think you have a lot to offer the forum you have many
very good photos. I dont think going on and on about something is
productive, it gets infectous and the nit picking gets bigger and
bigger and soon no one wants to be on the forum, everything goes to
hell. I know I've been on other forums [not photo] but its all the
same.
Click to expand...
so you expect me to shut up when potential buyers ask opinion about the 300d and only say...oh great camera, buy it! :)

also the fact that people keep dragging me into these discussion by mentioning me does not help. You know..it takes 2 to tango.
 
DavidP said:
Make a note of the current readings, and switch to manual exposure
mode!
Click to expand...
wow, what a hassle when you need to capture a precious moment fast. so if we resume that....

I zoom out to keep my contrasty subject within the focusing braket...then have my pen handy (I don't have good short term memory), write down the exposure reading, then zoom in to frame my subject, switch to manual mode and turn the wheel until I reach that correct exposure..

oppss where is my subject? damn...it's gone. oppps..is it sunset already? :)

I will try that though and see if it works.
DavidP #28649 said:
Daniella said:
duh..to me as well..so there is actualy NO way to lock the current
exposure :))) loughable..or not..
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Click to expand...
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
Michael Friedman said:
Features vs. pricepoint is a standard in every industry.
Click to expand...
And there's the rub. What comparison do you use?

Digital Rebel vs other digital SLRs? Then the expected trade off of features for price holds.

But what about film SLR vs Digital Rebel?

High end digicam vs Digital Rebel?

Low end digicam vs Digital Rebel?

Does the expection of the features vs price trade off always hold? Apparently not based on my reading of the posts in this forum!

Note I am saying anything about the value of the Digital Rebel. I'm only commenting on the expectations of the buyers and prospective buyers when it comes to feature vs price comparisons.
--
Steve Mattan
http://www.stevem.smugmug.com
English is my first language and I still screw it up!
 
Hate to break it to you folks, but whatever entry-level SLR you buy from any of the brands, they all have the same degree of "crippling." That's what you get with an entry-level product. But having said that, the primary limitation is still the skill of the photographer. Put a "crippled" 300D in the hands of a skilled photographer, and his pictures will still run circles around an inexperienced whiner using a 10D or 1D or 1Ds.
 
your first one was a duffer...his first one was also a duffer..my first one was a dufer..and my second one is duffed at Canon for repair.

cool huh?

where is your gallery?
hypnosteve said:
johnrweb said:
I'm happy to hear that your 2nd camera is super duper. A happy
camera is a happy photographer. :)

I'm going to give my camera a few more weeks to see if I have a
focusing problem beyond the AI Focus issue. I just get too many
out of focus shot and I'm thinking maybe I'm having a front
focusing issue or some similar problem that you had.

The next two weekends, I'll be doing portrait shots of my GF and if
it keep turning up blurry, I'll consider sending it to Canon.
antoine said:
Yes, I did and I love my 2nd one. That's it, end of the story.

--
Click to expand...
John from Southern California
http://www.pbase.com/johnrweb/disneyconcerthall
http://www.pbase.com/domdom
F707 and 300D
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
.... and yes I did shoot slide but more so C41 (free prints!).
Still ther is no excuse for the wild results of the 300D in Eval mode
DavidP said:
If not, judging the actual exposure is a bit difficult. Unless
you're really good at reading negatives.
BIO said:
At this stage cameras should be able to expose 99% of shots
correctly with evaluative metering. Hell my old EOS Elan with its 6
zone metering got it right most of the time. The 300D should be
programed to figure out what U R shooting. Years of feeding in
shots into computers to generate algorithms by R&D should have
created some consistant exposures.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Click to expand...
--
Biorn
Ireland
http://www.pbase.com/biorn
 
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