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July 4th fireworks: X2D vs 100s

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Last Mango

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I shot fireworks with the X2D/55V and wanted to do a quick comparison with the 100s from a couple years ago (100s with the 45-100). I processed both in Lightroom using linear profiles that am experimenting with. The X2D colors continue to be a little more pleasing to me...the 100s is nice, but continue to struggle removing the magenta bias on night shots.

I used the Phocus Mobile App to remote trigger the X2D, which was simple and worked without any issues...the Fuji App was always a PIA to connect and thus hardly used it. Note, there was quite a bit more haze/smoke on the night that I shot the X2D, and the 100s was shot at ~88mm, so not quite apples to apples....this was more about rendering and color for me.



View attachment c06647d6951d4d77b326da63495ea669.jpg
X2D + 55V



View attachment c713c60e61ff4b6abde5dff8dfff368e.jpg
100s + 45-100
 
I would want to cool down that first shot. It looks unnaturally yellow to me. The Fuji colors look far more natural and balanced to my eye.
 
GonnaSnap said:
I would want to cool down that first shot. It looks unnaturally yellow to me. The Fuji colors look far more natural and balanced to my eye.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more here! Spot on, 100s looks far more natural, crisper and easier on the eyes. I, for one, have failed to see the advantage of Hasselblad's colours over Fuji's in many of the comparisons given on this forum. It's almost a myth IMHO!
 
How did the fireworks look to the eye? Which one do you think is more accurate representation of color?

That being said I also like the colors of the 100S more than the X2D but I dont know what the actual colors looked like in reality.
 
barkleytom said:
GonnaSnap said:
I would want to cool down that first shot. It looks unnaturally yellow to me. The Fuji colors look far more natural and balanced to my eye.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more here! Spot on, 100s looks far more natural, crisper and easier on the eyes. I, for one, have failed to see the advantage of Hasselblad's colours over Fuji's in many of the comparisons given on this forum. It's almost a myth IMHO!
Click to expand...
Hasselblad colors when processed through Phocus are slightly (but discernibly) different from Fuji colors and slightly more accurate from my personal experience. When processed through LR there is no advantage to Hasselblad colors and they are no better or worse than Fuji colors.

Moral of the story: Hasselblad color is a myth when both are processed through LR (and perhaps C1) but its real when you jump through additional Phocus hoops.

It all depends on how much trouble you want to go through with Hasselblad files to get the full benefit of HNCS.

What definitely is a myth is that Hasselblad system is easier to use than GFX system when you factor in post processing to take advantage of HNCS. Thats compete Hocus Phocus (no pun intended) :-)
 
I struggle to draw any conclusion from two different images, shot at different locations with different lenses and taken years apart.

It can only be an emotional response as in I prefer A over B or the other way round based on personal preferences.

I could never see anything special in HNCS, neither in Phocus nor in Lightroom although I think it has been demonstrated that Hasselblad colors can be more accurate purely from a physical point of view. But it’s not that even their own lenses are color coded, try adapting an H system lens for example, or compare the first X lenses with the latest ones. It’s constantly changing/ evolving.

And their sample images also vary greatly, sometimes with so much editing to border on surrealism.

I put the Hasselblad color into a category higher than the 16bit snakeoil but only just. :)
 
Ben_Bro said:
I struggle to draw any conclusion from two different images, shot at different locations with different lenses and taken years apart.

It can only be an emotional response as in I prefer A over B or the other way round based on personal preferences.

I could never see anything special in HNCS, neither in Phocus nor in Lightroom although I think it has been demonstrated that Hasselblad colors can be more accurate purely from a physical point of view. But it’s not that even their own lenses are color coded, try adapting an H system lens for example, or compare the first X lenses with the latest ones. It’s constantly changing/ evolving.

And their sample images also vary greatly, sometimes with so much editing to border on surrealism.

I put the Hasselblad color into a category higher than the 16bit snakeoil but only just. :)
Click to expand...
16 bit snake oil 🤣😂
 
Hasselblad color when going through Phocus is the result of profiles and ML that Hasselblad has developed based on a lot of actual images and photographic experience. It's nothing to dismiss lightly.

In a sense, the system has a certain expectation of how the scene color should look vs the way it actually was at the time of shooting.

In terms of skin colors and other memory colors, many people like the result of this system, which Hasselblad insists produces more accurate color, even when that color is not what was present.

I wonder how much knowledge HNCS has of fireworks displays.

The Fuji image has no bias other than just trying to process according to the way the (quite capable) generic color balance has been selected. (Which is what happens with Hasselblad images processed outside of Phocus.) Fujifilm has a bit of color know-how, too (cough), in its history.

I've never seen fireworks smoke or flames as yellow as shown in the first image. I wouldn't be surprised if Hasselblad enthusiasts insist the image is preferable in all respects and "true to the scene." In my experience they've always quite blue "in person."

--
Rich
"That's like, just your opinion, man." ;-)
 
Last edited:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
 
Last edited:
GonnaSnap said:
I would want to cool down that first shot. It looks unnaturally yellow to me. The Fuji colors look far more natural and balanced to my eye.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the shot is warmer because of the yellow fireworks and haze picking that up....the colors are pretty close to what I saw, little to no color adjustment...the Fuji took some work and still not happy with it.
 
yogi4fitness said:
How did the fireworks look to the eye? Which one do you think is more accurate representation of color?

That being said I also like the colors of the 100S more than the X2D but I dont know what the actual colors looked like in reality.
Click to expand...
The X2D by far...I hard work harder on the 100s.
 
yogi4fitness said:
barkleytom said:
GonnaSnap said:
I would want to cool down that first shot. It looks unnaturally yellow to me. The Fuji colors look far more natural and balanced to my eye.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more here! Spot on, 100s looks far more natural, crisper and easier on the eyes. I, for one, have failed to see the advantage of Hasselblad's colours over Fuji's in many of the comparisons given on this forum. It's almost a myth IMHO!
Click to expand...
Hasselblad colors when processed through Phocus are slightly (but discernibly) different from Fuji colors and slightly more accurate from my personal experience. When processed through LR there is no advantage to Hasselblad colors and they are no better or worse than Fuji colors.

Moral of the story: Hasselblad color is a myth when both are processed through LR (and perhaps C1) but its real when you jump through additional Phocus hoops.

It all depends on how much trouble you want to go through with Hasselblad files to get the full benefit of HNCS.

What definitely is a myth is that Hasselblad system is easier to use than GFX system when you factor in post processing to take advantage of HNCS. Thats compete Hocus Phocus (no pun intended) :-)
Click to expand...
With due respect, I disagree. Even though I have not ventured into Phocus yet, the X2D colors are more balanced with a starting point that is close to what I saw. This is most apparent in fading light or blue hour type shots. The Fuji is very biased toward magenta and struggle to neutralize / remove.
 
Ben_Bro said:
I struggle to draw any conclusion from two different images, shot at different locations with different lenses and taken years apart.
Click to expand...
Yes, but they were shot from the same location, probably the same chair:)
Ben_Bro said:
It can only be an emotional response as in I prefer A over B or the other way round based on personal preferences.
Click to expand...
Sure, but for me, the X2D nailed colors straight away, the GFX took some work
Ben_Bro said:
I could never see anything special in HNCS, neither in Phocus nor in Lightroom although I think it has been demonstrated that Hasselblad colors can be more accurate purely from a physical point of view. But it’s not that even their own lenses are color coded, try adapting an H system lens for example, or compare the first X lenses with the latest ones. It’s constantly changing/ evolving.

And their sample images also vary greatly, sometimes with so much editing to border on surrealism.

I put the Hasselblad color into a category higher than the 16bit snakeoil but only just. :)
Click to expand...
It is definitely not snake oil, the X2D colors are just better and I struggle with GFX in certain situations.
 
Rich42 said:
Hasselblad color when going through Phocus is the result of profiles and ML that Hasselblad has developed based on a lot of actual images and photographic experience. It's nothing to dismiss lightly.

In a sense, the system has a certain expectation of how the scene color should look vs the way it actually was at the time of shooting.

In terms of skin colors and other memory colors, many people like the result of this system, which Hasselblad insists produces more accurate color, even when that color is not what was present.

I wonder how much knowledge HNCS has of fireworks displays.

The Fuji image has no bias other than just trying to process according to the way the (quite capable) generic color balance has been selected. (Which is what happens with Hasselblad images processed outside of Phocus.) Fujifilm has a bit of color know-how, too (cough), in its history.

I've never seen fireworks smoke or flames as yellow as shown in the first image. I wouldn't be surprised if Hasselblad enthusiasts insist the image is preferable in all respects and "true to the scene." In my experience they've always quite blue "in person."
Click to expand...
 
kciuk aka Ken60 said:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
Click to expand...
Sure, I dont mind at all...I did try to brighten the center of the tree some...and Lightroom upon export to JPG created artifacts in both images, had to re-export several times.
 
RodandEva said:
kciuk aka Ken60 said:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
Click to expand...
Sure, I dont mind at all...I did try to brighten the center of the tree some...and Lightroom upon export to JPG created artifacts in both images, had to re-export several times.
Click to expand...
however, your rendering isn't really that close, below is an image with zero processing taken right after the fireworks had concluded. Your sky is way oversaturated. If I taken this with the GFX, it would have been very heavily weighted magenta.



View attachment 903bfc44ffac4716972e3ad37df51d32.jpg
 
Ben_Bro said:
I struggle to draw any conclusion from two different images, shot at different locations with different lenses and taken years apart.

It can only be an emotional response as in I prefer A over B or the other way round based on personal preferences.

I could never see anything special in HNCS, neither in Phocus nor in Lightroom although I think it has been demonstrated that Hasselblad colors can be more accurate purely from a physical point of view. But it’s not that even their own lenses are color coded, try adapting an H system lens for example, or compare the first X lenses with the latest ones. It’s constantly changing/ evolving.

And their sample images also vary greatly, sometimes with so much editing to border on surrealism.

I put the Hasselblad color into a category higher than the 16bit snakeoil but only just. :)
Click to expand...
I just read the thread again and didnt realize the pics were taken years apart (I saw the first pics on my phone and didnt show the dates).

This makes the comparison totally pointless, IMHO. I wish this comparison was done the same time because then there is no way the two images would look this different unless the WB settings were different in the two cameras. I have shot Hasselblad and GFX at the same time indoors and outdoors and it was hard to discern any color difference when processed through LR Adobe Standard developer. With Phocus thrown in the mix the colors were slightly different and certainly no where near this different. This is night and day different!

The humidity, temperature, pollution etc would change the dispersion characteristics of air and no wonder two pics taken years apart look this different.

I am sorry but I honestly don't see the point of this comparison.
 
RodandEva said:
RodandEva said:
kciuk aka Ken60 said:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
Click to expand...
Sure, I dont mind at all...I did try to brighten the center of the tree some...and Lightroom upon export to JPG created artifacts in both images, had to re-export several times.
Click to expand...
however, your rendering isn't really that close, below is an image with zero processing taken right after the fireworks had concluded. Your sky is way oversaturated. If I taken this with the GFX, it would have been very heavily weighted magenta.
Click to expand...
Why didn't you take it with the GFX at the same time? An image taken few years ago under completely different air quality and humidity is like comparing apples to oranges.

If I have time one of these weekends I'll post images of Hasselblad and GFX during blue hour to show what I mean.
Last Mango said:
View attachment 903bfc44ffac4716972e3ad37df51d32.jpg
Click to expand...
 
yogi4fitness said:
RodandEva said:
RodandEva said:
kciuk aka Ken60 said:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
Click to expand...
Sure, I dont mind at all...I did try to brighten the center of the tree some...and Lightroom upon export to JPG created artifacts in both images, had to re-export several times.
Click to expand...
however, your rendering isn't really that close, below is an image with zero processing taken right after the fireworks had concluded. Your sky is way oversaturated. If I taken this with the GFX, it would have been very heavily weighted magenta.
Click to expand...
Why didn't you take it with the GFX at the same time? An image taken few years ago under completely different air quality and humidity is like comparing apples to oranges.

If I have time one of these weekends I'll post images of Hasselblad and GFX during blue hour to show what I mean.
yogi4fitness said:
View attachment 903bfc44ffac4716972e3ad37df51d32.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Fair point and that would have been ideal but already sold my 100s...clearly not an apples to apples comparison, but for me the X2D colors are superior and showing an example under similar conditions. The GFX always shifted heavy magenta during blue hour, which I struggled to correct. This far finding that the X2D is handling theses situations much better.
 
RodandEva said:
yogi4fitness said:
RodandEva said:
RodandEva said:
kciuk aka Ken60 said:
View attachment 4d73e5b92c6749fc93ee896c7cd5f22b.jpg

I hope you forgive me for passing this jpeg through Photoshop and hitting Ctrl + M then Auto for colour balance. I think perhaps this rendering is closer to truth.

Would love to see a more controlled shot with both side by side on the same moment , possibly including something that we all recognise the colour of.

What do I take from your shot..... I think that considering the cameras are 400 ISO and 1000ISO , the fuji did not do too badly for grain. The Hass looked a tad processed in the tonal rendering of the tree bark almost like the way uplifted shadows and manipulated tones can begin to look posterised .

Did note that the Hass was not shot with a zoom lens , I guess only fixed focal lengths on such a high end camera :)
Click to expand...
Sure, I dont mind at all...I did try to brighten the center of the tree some...and Lightroom upon export to JPG created artifacts in both images, had to re-export several times.
Click to expand...
however, your rendering isn't really that close, below is an image with zero processing taken right after the fireworks had concluded. Your sky is way oversaturated. If I taken this with the GFX, it would have been very heavily weighted magenta.
Click to expand...
Why didn't you take it with the GFX at the same time? An image taken few years ago under completely different air quality and humidity is like comparing apples to oranges.

If I have time one of these weekends I'll post images of Hasselblad and GFX during blue hour to show what I mean.
Last Mango said:
View attachment 903bfc44ffac4716972e3ad37df51d32.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Fair point and that would have been ideal but already sold my 100s...clearly not an apples to apples comparison, but for me the X2D colors are superior and showing an example under similar conditions. The GFX always shifted heavy magenta during blue hour, which I struggled to correct. This far finding that the X2D is handling theses situations much better.
Click to expand...
My point is that rather than relying on 3 yr old memory on how the sky looked that night, it would be better to take a pic from both systems one after another at identical settings and developing thru the same RAW developer and comparing. That would be a true apples to apples comparison.

Prolly in the next two weeks I'll take my Hasselblad and the Fuji with the XCD 45/4 and GF 45/2.8 and shoot the same scene at f/4 and post a comparison without EXIF information and let people decide which colors are preferred. All Ill do is match exposure because even at the same ISO the metering is slightly different between the systems. We can separate fact from fiction then.
 
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