Nikon Z5II vs Sony A7IV vs Canon R6II (Matt Irwins comparison)

Thomerik

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Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
 
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Thanks for posting with a useful summary, instead of just a video link.

The Z5 ii won the scoring by having Pixel Shift! The line item scores are pretty close in a lot of the (important to me) categories. Interesting.

The Z5 ii got 15 scores of 10. It scores between 8 to 10 in all categories except Card slots, Dual card recording, Digital hot shoe, and Pre-capture.
 
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Thanks for posting with a useful summary, instead of just a video link.

The Z5 ii won the scoring by having Pixel Shift! The line item scores are pretty close in a lot of the (important to me) categories. Interesting.

The Z5 ii scores beween 8 to 10 in all categories except Card slots, Dual card recording, Digital hot shoe, and Pre-capture.
Yes, for sure the "total scores" are a bit flawed from getting a 10 pointer over the others on a simple functionality when important things are separated by a point or so. Nonetheless you can simply look at the scores in the different categories, or watch the video if you want the full context.:-D
 
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This video is well worth a watch all the way through, the scores are not that useful, but the actual comparisons are very revealing. Surprises for me are the visible noise at 100 ISO on the Canon, how bad the Canon L lens was, how good the Z5ii AF was compared to both, especially acquiring people/faces from further away, how much better the Z5ii IBIS was (for photos), how massive the Canon's video files are for poorer results.
 
Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
The Z6 III is what I'd honestly compare to the R6 II and A7 IV, not the Z5 II, partially because of the price, but regardless, according to Matt, it still looks good from a comparison standpoint, but also keep in mind that the R6 II and A7 IV may be updated within the next year or so, and a Z5 III if there is one, is probably years away (Z6 IV is also probably at least 2-3 years away).

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* PLEASE NOTE: I generally unsubscribe from forums/comments after a period of time has passed, so if I do not respond, that is likely the reason. *
 
Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.



Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
 
Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.

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Jaap Meiresonne
 
Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.
So is the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2. However, the Nikkor is still noticeably better than the RF 50mm f/1.8.

No one forced Canon to be lazy and re-release a decades old lens design on the RF mount. It’s not just that lens they cut corners with. The new RF 85 f/2 has a slow STM instead of the USM in the EF 85 f/1.8. The RF 35 f/1.8 has an extending barrel when it focuses and nasty astigmatism.

Many if the non-L zooms don’t even cover the full frame image circle if you disable optical corrections.

Nikon hasn’t cut corners like that (yet) with their new Z designs.
 
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Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.
So is the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2. However, the Nikkor is still noticeably better than the RF 50mm f/1.8.

No one forced Canon to be lazy and re-release a decades old lens design on the RF mount. It’s not just that lens they cut corners with. The new RF 85 f/2 has a slow STM instead of the USM in the EF 85 f/1.8. The RF 35 f/1.8 has an extending barrel when it focuses and nasty astigmatism.
Many if the non-L zooms don’t even cover the full frame image circle if you disable optical corrections.

Nikon hasn’t cut corners like that (yet) with their new Z designs.
I don't disagree with that. But to compare the cameras I would have preferred more equal lenses. Maybe the 24-70 f/2.8 models ( no lazy desing from any of the three brands) would have given a more level paying ground, and these lenses would certainly not be a limiting factor.

--
Jaap Meiresonne
 
Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.
So is the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2. However, the Nikkor is still noticeably better than the RF 50mm f/1.8.

No one forced Canon to be lazy and re-release a decades old lens design on the RF mount. It’s not just that lens they cut corners with. The new RF 85 f/2 has a slow STM instead of the USM in the EF 85 f/1.8. The RF 35 f/1.8 has an extending barrel when it focuses and nasty astigmatism.
Many if the non-L zooms don’t even cover the full frame image circle if you disable optical corrections.

Nikon hasn’t cut corners like that (yet) with their new Z designs.
I don't disagree with that. But to compare the cameras I would have preferred more equal lenses. Maybe the 24-70 f/2.8 models ( no lazy desing from any of the three brands) would have given a more level paying ground, and these lenses would certainly not be a limiting factor.
A lot of people have gone to Nikon purely for the 24-120mm f/4. I have seen threads where Sony users wish they had something like that. Their closest option IS their 24-105mm, and they don't get close in quality. It's very relevant to compare those, also because so many people care about that type of lens. The Canon zoom costs more than the Nikon.

When it comes to Canon they simply don't seem to have very good option in the mid to lower price range. Nikon has plenty. If you want a high quality 50mm prime for <1000 USD, you can get that with Nikon, but with Canon you'll have to shell out 2000 USD for the 1.4 one. That's why that comparison is also relevant.

Comparing the 2.8 zooms are actually less relevant for the majority of buyers, because most customers are on a budget.
 
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Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.
So is the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2. However, the Nikkor is still noticeably better than the RF 50mm f/1.8.

No one forced Canon to be lazy and re-release a decades old lens design on the RF mount. It’s not just that lens they cut corners with. The new RF 85 f/2 has a slow STM instead of the USM in the EF 85 f/1.8. The RF 35 f/1.8 has an extending barrel when it focuses and nasty astigmatism.
Many if the non-L zooms don’t even cover the full frame image circle if you disable optical corrections.

Nikon hasn’t cut corners like that (yet) with their new Z designs.
The Nikon Z 40mm is one of the worst lenses I own. The RF 50mm 1.8 is not great either, but I don't see the "noticeably better", depending on what you are doing the 50mm even might have the edge. Bokeh is super fugly on the 40mm.

The Rf 85 f2 has an STM motor like mentioned, but in real-life use it is not slower than the Nikon 85mm 1.8, which is a bit suprising considering the Nikon is an S lens? I find the RF 85 f2 very useable and in terms of image quality MCH better than the old EF one.

The RF 35mm is certainly not very useful for astro and not a stellar performer, on the other hand the Nikon Z 35mm 1.8 is one of the weaker 1.8 primes as well (still good of course) but it is quite expensive for what it is. At least the Canon is slightly more affordable.

And what you forgot about 35 and 85mm: They can do "semi" macro / micro. For most people (even weddings pros) that is suffcient without having to buy a dedicated macro lens.

Nikon 1.8 primes vs Canon 1.8 don't compare well, the same applies to Nikon 1.4 vs Canon 1.4 (where Canon will have the edge).

The video itself is strange. To say the least. I'm not sure how he managed to get that kind of noise difference between those models. Most other available sources will paint a different picture (e.g.: the studio scene on dpreview or the ISO score from dxomark or photons2photos). This alone is very strange and some kind of red flag. Regarding AF he mentions that the Z5 II (and I guess this applies to the Zf than as well) can recognize subjects much earlier and this is not the case in my experience. AF in general is still more reliable on my Canons. There is a BUT: He did some of his tests in video mode, here I don't have a lot of experience, maybe video is significantly different than stills.

The biggest advantage of the Canon from my point of view is the ability to use it as an e-shutter only camera. The Sony and Nikon cameras will not be great if used like this and of course that there is a smaller sibling with a similar feature set available (R8), an area where I would wish for a Nikon release as well (aka a very compact and lightweight Z5 II).
 
A useful if a little flawed comparison in that it compared a new design from Nikon with two much older models from Canon and Sony. I presume this was based on current pricing, but the Z5II is still substantially cheaper than either of the other 2.

Having said that, I believe that it shows just how much catching up Sony needs to do to make it more competitive since it is being compared to a so called entry level Nikon and coming out pretty poorly. In a comparison with a Z6 III it would have come out even more badly.

My only comment on the ratings is that I believe the Sony is much better in the lens area given the much wider choice of lenses in the native mount. Canon is pitiful and Nikon is getting much better and improving. Canon not so much.

I have too much invested in the Sony system to switch but if I was contemplating my first move to mirrorless or a move to Full Frame, the Z5 II is a very tempting choice and more appropriate than the Z6 III in most use cases. An excellent camera and very well priced.

Note I did not watch the video and make these comments based on the posted data only.
 
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Huge comparison posted today by Matt Irwin. There are also lots of lens comparisons on the different cameras. I haven't watched it all yet, but the comparison between the 24-105/24-120 f/4 lenses from the different systems showed a very big difference in favour of the Nikon lens, even on 24-33mp cameras. The Canon has noticeably more noise. For those who doesn't want to watch it all for full context, and here is his assesment of the performance in the different categories:

87701d0ccbc341548310d76ce92b8071.jpg.png

Obviously the total score doesn't take into account what matters more than other things.
A lot of Canon’s early RF L lenses are, to be frank, not great. Many of their new RF designs are not very large improvements over some of their EF designs or outright downgrades to make them lighter.

Nikon has clearly tried to outdo themselves with every new Z lens.
That Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 is a budget lens of around 1/3 of the price of the Nikon Z 50mm/f/1.8. Just like adding up the points without weighing items it does not give a fair comparison.
So is the Nikkor Z 40mm f/2. However, the Nikkor is still noticeably better than the RF 50mm f/1.8.

No one forced Canon to be lazy and re-release a decades old lens design on the RF mount. It’s not just that lens they cut corners with. The new RF 85 f/2 has a slow STM instead of the USM in the EF 85 f/1.8. The RF 35 f/1.8 has an extending barrel when it focuses and nasty astigmatism.
Many if the non-L zooms don’t even cover the full frame image circle if you disable optical corrections.

Nikon hasn’t cut corners like that (yet) with their new Z designs.
The Nikon Z 40mm is one of the worst lenses I own. The RF 50mm 1.8 is not great either, but I don't see the "noticeably better", depending on what you are doing the 50mm even might have the edge. Bokeh is super fugly on the 40mm.

The Rf 85 f2 has an STM motor like mentioned, but in real-life use it is not slower than the Nikon 85mm 1.8, which is a bit suprising considering the Nikon is an S lens? I find the RF 85 f2 very useable and in terms of image quality MCH better than the old EF one.

The RF 35mm is certainly not very useful for astro and not a stellar performer, on the other hand the Nikon Z 35mm 1.8 is one of the weaker 1.8 primes as well (still good of course) but it is quite expensive for what it is. At least the Canon is slightly more affordable.

And what you forgot about 35 and 85mm: They can do "semi" macro / micro. For most people (even weddings pros) that is suffcient without having to buy a dedicated macro lens.

Nikon 1.8 primes vs Canon 1.8 don't compare well, the same applies to Nikon 1.4 vs Canon 1.4 (where Canon will have the edge).

The video itself is strange. To say the least. I'm not sure how he managed to get that kind of noise difference between those models. Most other available sources will paint a different picture (e.g.: the studio scene on dpreview or the ISO score from dxomark or photons2photos). This alone is very strange and some kind of red flag. Regarding AF he mentions that the Z5 II (and I guess this applies to the Zf than as well) can recognize subjects much earlier and this is not the case in my experience. AF in general is still more reliable on my Canons. There is a BUT: He did some of his tests in video mode, here I don't have a lot of experience, maybe video is significantly different than stills.

The biggest advantage of the Canon from my point of view is the ability to use it as an e-shutter only camera. The Sony and Nikon cameras will not be great if used like this and of course that there is a smaller sibling with a similar feature set available (R8), an area where I would wish for a Nikon release as well (aka a very compact and lightweight Z5 II).
About the noise, he boosted the shadows by +47. The studio test doesn't do this. Indicating that Matt Irwin would cheat in his testing to make Canon look worse sounds more like a conspiracy theory. He does a lot of critical testing on his channel. The chance of him doing something like that is very low. You can criticize his testing methods and such, but do you really think he blatanly cheated?

Here's DPreviews comparison with the Z6II when boosted 6 stops in LR:

e4740f49e81048178fdd6c53dc002dbe.jpg

Now the difference is obvious. You wouldn't boost things 6 stops, but you would boost things a little bit like I think he did in the video, and this will result in bigger differences. In LR the color denoise is at 25 default, so LR users might not notice it as much.

By the way, if you look at photography lifes measurements, the tell the exact same story on the 24-105 vs 24-120. The Nikon is cheaper and way sharper. Was that test also a red flag? He even said that the Canon might be just a bad copy, indicating that it might still be better than what his testing showed, but photography life tested 4 of them. Good thing we have measurements to support this, otherwise he would have been blamed for cheating there too.
 
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A useful if a little flawed comparison in that it compared a new design from Nikon with two much older models from Canon and Sony. I presume this was based on current pricing, but the Z5II is still substantially cheaper than either of the other 2.

Having said that, I believe that it shows just how much catching up Sony needs to do to make it more competitive since it is being compared to a so called entry level Nikon and coming out pretty poorly. In a comparison with a Z6 III it would have come out even more badly.

My only comment on the ratings is that I believe the Sony is much better in the lens area given the much wider choice of lenses in the native mount. Canon is pitiful and Nikon is getting much better and improving. Canon not so much.

I have too much invested in the Sony system to switch but if I was contemplating my first move to mirrorless or a move to Full Frame, the Z5 II is a very tempting choice and more appropriate than the Z6 III in most use cases. An excellent camera and very well priced.

Note I did not watch the video and make these comments based on the posted data only.
I think it's just meant to show how the new Z5II stacks up in the market. What some don't seem to get is that he didn't intend for this to be about comparing the brands themselves, but rather be useful info for people who are looking to make purchasing decisions today, and are considering the new Z5II. That's what all of his videos are usually about, he often compare many different lenses to each other.
 
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About the noise, he boosted the shadows by +47. The studio test doesn't do this. Indicating that Matt Irwin would cheat in his testing to make Canon look worse sounds more like a conspiracy theory. He does a lot of critical testing on his channel. The chance of him doing something like that is very low. You can criticize his testing methods and such, but do you really think he blatanly cheated?

Here's DPreviews comparison with the Z6II when boosted 6 stops in LR:

e4740f49e81048178fdd6c53dc002dbe.jpg

Now the difference is obvious. You wouldn't boost things 6 stops, but you would boost things a little bit like I think he did in the video, and this will result in bigger differences. In LR the color denoise is at 25 default, so LR users might not notice it as much.

By the way, if you look at photography lifes measurements, the tell the exact same story on the 24-105 vs 24-120. The Nikon is cheaper and way sharper. Was that test also a red flag? He even said that the Canon might be just a bad copy, indicating that it might still be better than what his testing showed, but photography life tested 4 of them. Good thing we have measurements to support this, otherwise he would have been blamed for cheating there too.
It's pretty well-documented by now that most of the Z lenses are optically quite a bit better than the RF releases. The RF mount does have some standouts--the 100-500 L, 100-400, 28 f/2.8, 35 f/1.4 L VCM, 100-300 f/2.8 IS L, and 28-70 f/2 L--but most of their optics are bettered by Nikon, Sony or Tamron.

Dustin Abbott tested the RF 70-200 f/2.8 L MkI and was getting better sharpness out of the Tamron 70-180 G1. The new RF 28-70 f/2.8 IS STM is a lot worse than the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 G2. You also have madness like Canon resurrecting an over two decade old lens in the RF 75-300 f/4-5.6.

The reality is you need to spend quite a bit more money to get top tier optics in the RF ecosystem than in the Nikon Z or Sony FE ecosystems. Nikon has the Z 50mm f/1.8 S on sale right now for 400 € refurbished and they toss in an extra 10% off if you have a discount code. You cannot touch that in the Canon RF ecosystem right now. The same goes for the Nikkor Z 24-120 f/4 S or the Nikkor Z 105 f/2.8 Macro: class leading optics quite a bit cheaper than in Canon or Sony.

Regarding the noise comparison, the DP Review file looks to be quite small: 11.3 MB on the Canon EOS R6 II vs 23.4 MB on the Nikon Z6 II RAW file. Maybe DP Review made a mistake and put a lossy compressed RAW into their comparison tool?
 
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A reasonably balanced score for each of 25 features is somewhat unique :-)

Depending on which of the rated features carry what feature weighting for an individual photographer can help a decision on which brand to consider.
 
About the noise, he boosted the shadows by +47. The studio test doesn't do this. Indicating that Matt Irwin would cheat in his testing to make Canon look worse sounds more like a conspiracy theory. He does a lot of critical testing on his channel. The chance of him doing something like that is very low. You can criticize his testing methods and such, but do you really think he blatanly cheated?

Here's DPreviews comparison with the Z6II when boosted 6 stops in LR:

e4740f49e81048178fdd6c53dc002dbe.jpg

Now the difference is obvious. You wouldn't boost things 6 stops, but you would boost things a little bit like I think he did in the video, and this will result in bigger differences. In LR the color denoise is at 25 default, so LR users might not notice it as much.

By the way, if you look at photography lifes measurements, the tell the exact same story on the 24-105 vs 24-120. The Nikon is cheaper and way sharper. Was that test also a red flag? He even said that the Canon might be just a bad copy, indicating that it might still be better than what his testing showed, but photography life tested 4 of them. Good thing we have measurements to support this, otherwise he would have been blamed for cheating there too.
It's pretty well-documented by now that most of the Z lenses are optically quite a bit better than the RF releases. The RF mount does have some standouts--the 100-500 L, 100-400, 28 f/2.8, 35 f/1.4 L VCM, 100-300 f/2.8 IS L, and 28-70 f/2 L--but most of their optics are bettered by Nikon, Sony or Tamron.

Dustin Abbott tested the RF 70-200 f/2.8 L MkI and was getting better sharpness out of the Tamron 70-180 G1. The new RF 28-70 f/2.8 IS STM is a lot worse than the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 G2. You also have madness like Canon resurrecting an over two decade old lens in the RF 75-300 f/4-5.6.

The reality is you need to spend quite a bit more money to get top tier optics in the RF ecosystem than in the Nikon Z or Sony FE ecosystems. Nikon has the Z 50mm f/1.8 S on sale right now for 400 € refurbished and they toss in an extra 10% off if you have a discount code. You cannot touch that in the Canon RF ecosystem right now. The same goes for the Nikkor Z 24-120 f/4 S or the Nikkor Z 105 f/2.8 Macro: class leading optics quite a bit cheaper than in Canon or Sony.

Regarding the noise comparison, the DP Review file looks to be quite small: 11.3 MB on the Canon EOS R6 II vs 23.4 MB on the Nikon Z6 II RAW file. Maybe DP Review made a mistake and put a lossy compressed RAW into their comparison tool?
I think the file size is due to lack of information in the file. Less information in the RAW in that extreme level of underexposure at base ISO than the Nikon. You can see the gradual increase in file size on the Canon as with other cameras when picking ISO 200 5 stop underexposed, ISO 400 4 stops under, and so forth. At ISO 6400 the file size ends up being about the same as the Z6II (30 vs 31 MB), meaning the file size is catching up as you raise the ISO. The Z6II starts at 23 MB and ends up at 30MB at ISO 6400.
 
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If you use lossless compressed RAWs file size will increase the more noise you have as noise is hard to compress.

Has nothing to do with "detail" or "missing information". It's just a different compression and slightly different data.
 
If you use lossless compressed RAWs file size will increase the more noise you have as noise is hard to compress.

Has nothing to do with "detail" or "missing information". It's just a different compression and slightly different data.
I just took an image at base ISO with normal exposure and the file was 29mb. I took another one of the same scene at base ISO underexposed by 6 stops. The file was 24mb. It was the same when I tested earlier today. You can test this yourself.
 
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