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A1-Noise Filtering Technique: Neat Image & Noise Ninja

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Geir Ove

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Hello,

I have just updated my Photo Web :-)
It's here: http://www.objective.no/geirove/web .

I have a section where you can download optimum ( ) Neat Image "Filter Presets" for each ISO Profile! For optimum use of Neat Image, you must not only match the correct ISO Profile to the Image. You must also tune the "Noise Filter Settings".

Neat Image provides some nice presets. Hower, I believe I have found better settings: You can see the effect of these settings on this page:

http://www.objective.no/geirove/web/noise_reduction.htm

and also download my Filter Presets. I have used many days of testing to finally end up with these settings .. puh !

I believe the results are very** good: Look for yourself on my web pages.

My Filter Presets currently have no Sharpening: I will probably provide Filer Presets with sharpening later.

Noise Ninja:

I haven't had the time to work much with Noise Ninja yet, but I belive the program has potential to produce just as good results: I will test this later, but it is very time consuming !

**

If someone finds BETTER Filter Presets for each A1 ISO Profile, please make them available !

Geir Ove
 
Geir I ahve been using your preset profiles for my D7i for some time now & have always been pleased with the results.

Are these new profiles A1 specific or can they be used with other models?

Keith-C
 
Hello,

You can download my profiles from this page:

http://www.arnason.no/modules.php?name=NSN_Downloads

If you can figure out how: If not, send a mail to the site owner!

Geir Ove
novak970 said:
Geir Ove said:
Please read about this on my page:
http://www.objective.no/geirove/web/noise_reduction.htm

Geir Ove
KEITH-C said:
Geir I ahve been using your preset profiles for my D7i for some
time now & have always been pleased with the results.

Are these new profiles A1 specific or can they be used with other
models?

Keith-C
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Geir Ove said:
**
If someone finds BETTER Filter Presets for each A1 ISO Profile,
please make them available !

Geir Ove
Click to expand...
After using Neat Image with my 7i for a year I found that there are so many settings that can affect noise (ISO, shutter speed, contrast, sharpness, white balance, etc.) and also noise varies with the sensor temp, I've given up on pre-made profiles. When I'm in a situation where I know I'll use Neat Image I take a shot or two intentionally way out of focus with the settings I'm using. I try to aim at objects that include a wide range of tones. I try to take those shots in the middle of the session so the camera is warmed up. Then I make a profile from one or two of those shots. I plan to do the same with my newly acquired A1.
 
they work beautifully with all pictures I have tried !

That's why I made them, so that I will NOT have to fine tune for every picture !

I do NOT use the "Auto Fine Tune": It often produces WORSE results than the COMBINATION of the ISO Profile AND the Filter Preset

Geir Ove
Browntimdc said:
Geir Ove said:
**
If someone finds BETTER Filter Presets for each A1 ISO Profile,
please make them available !

Geir Ove
Click to expand...
After using Neat Image with my 7i for a year I found that there are
so many settings that can affect noise (ISO, shutter speed,
contrast, sharpness, white balance, etc.) and also noise varies
with the sensor temp, I've given up on pre-made profiles. When I'm
in a situation where I know I'll use Neat Image I take a shot or
two intentionally way out of focus with the settings I'm using. I
try to aim at objects that include a wide range of tones. I try to
take those shots in the middle of the session so the camera is
warmed up. Then I make a profile from one or two of those shots. I
plan to do the same with my newly acquired A1.
Click to expand...
 
Geir: I have developed noise profiles for the 7Hi for all ISO using the NI target chart and they work very well, but I did not tweak the filters, just the profiles. Did you use any "standard"procedure for that or just tuned the filters by experimentation?

Lucas
 
Hello,

Good question: I thought I would try to describe my tweaking technique, but I was afraid the description would be long and confusing. I may update my page with this when I get the time to do it:

The short form goes as follows.

a) I used the Different Presets that comes with Neat Image and saw what they did to the picture at each ISO. I then selected the best basis for each ISO Profile

b) I soon learned that one could in general do quite a lot of Cr and CB filtering to get rid if Color Noise, even at ISO 100. In fact I do 100% Y, Cr and Cb filrering at both ISO 100 and 200

c) Don't tweak EVERYTHING !

I basically left the "Noise Levels" alone: Adjusting them down to the Threshold level creates a unstable filter that will VARY a LOT from picture to picture: Levels should be "Inside" the threshold: They are if adjusting the associated "Noise Reduction Amount" from 0 to 100 turns that Noise Level from OFF to way too much on!

d) I enabled "Very Low Frequency" for ISO 400 and 800 that have lots of low freq. noise. However, I turned DOWN high frequency Amounts to leave more High Frequency!

You may say: Hey, shouldn't it this be the other way around? Shouldn't I use LESS High Freq. Amount for Lower ISO that has more High Freq details? NO, you should not! Remember the Filter Settings are RELATIVE to each Profile: AND the ISO 100 Profile has not detected a lot of High Freq noise for the relatively clean ISO 100 !

There's more to it, but I hope this helps !!!

Geir Ove
lcmacedo said:
Geir: I have developed noise profiles for the 7Hi for all ISO using
the NI target chart and they work very well, but I did not tweak
the filters, just the profiles. Did you use any "standard"procedure
for that or just tuned the filters by experimentation?

Lucas
Click to expand...
 
Thanks a lot, Geir! I'll try those with my 7Hi filter tune up.

Lucas
Geir Ove said:
Good question: I thought I would try to describe my tweaking
technique, but I was afraid the description would be long and
confusing. I may update my page with this when I get the time to do
it:

The short form goes as follows.

a) I used the Different Presets that comes with Neat Image and saw
what they did to the picture at each ISO. I then selected the best
basis for each ISO Profile

b) I soon learned that one could in general do quite a lot of Cr
and CB filtering to get rid if Color Noise, even at ISO 100. In
fact I do 100% Y, Cr and Cb filrering at both ISO 100 and 200

c) Don't tweak EVERYTHING !
I basically left the "Noise Levels" alone: Adjusting them down to
the Threshold level creates a unstable filter that will VARY a LOT
from picture to picture: Levels should be "Inside" the threshold:
They are if adjusting the associated "Noise Reduction Amount" from
0 to 100 turns that Noise Level from OFF to way too much on!

d) I enabled "Very Low Frequency" for ISO 400 and 800 that have
lots of low freq. noise. However, I turned DOWN high frequency
Amounts to leave more High Frequency!
You may say: Hey, shouldn't it this be the other way around?
Shouldn't I use LESS High Freq. Amount for Lower ISO that has more
High Freq details? NO, you should not! Remember the Filter Settings
are RELATIVE to each Profile: AND the ISO 100 Profile has not
detected a lot of High Freq noise for the relatively clean ISO 100 !

There's more to it, but I hope this helps !!!

Geir Ove
lcmacedo said:
Geir: I have developed noise profiles for the 7Hi for all ISO using
the NI target chart and they work very well, but I did not tweak
the filters, just the profiles. Did you use any "standard"procedure
for that or just tuned the filters by experimentation?

Lucas
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
that is, showing great variation in results from picture to picture, the Levels are most probably set wrong:

see here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6826202

Geir Ove
Browntimdc said:
Geir Ove said:
**
If someone finds BETTER Filter Presets for each A1 ISO Profile,
please make them available !

Geir Ove
Click to expand...
After using Neat Image with my 7i for a year I found that there are
so many settings that can affect noise (ISO, shutter speed,
contrast, sharpness, white balance, etc.) and also noise varies
with the sensor temp, I've given up on pre-made profiles. When I'm
in a situation where I know I'll use Neat Image I take a shot or
two intentionally way out of focus with the settings I'm using. I
try to aim at objects that include a wide range of tones. I try to
take those shots in the middle of the session so the camera is
warmed up. Then I make a profile from one or two of those shots. I
plan to do the same with my newly acquired A1.
Click to expand...
 
Let me hear your results :-)

Geir Ove
lcmacedo said:
Lucas
Geir Ove said:
Good question: I thought I would try to describe my tweaking
technique, but I was afraid the description would be long and
confusing. I may update my page with this when I get the time to do
it:

The short form goes as follows.

a) I used the Different Presets that comes with Neat Image and saw
what they did to the picture at each ISO. I then selected the best
basis for each ISO Profile

b) I soon learned that one could in general do quite a lot of Cr
and CB filtering to get rid if Color Noise, even at ISO 100. In
fact I do 100% Y, Cr and Cb filrering at both ISO 100 and 200

c) Don't tweak EVERYTHING !
I basically left the "Noise Levels" alone: Adjusting them down to
the Threshold level creates a unstable filter that will VARY a LOT
from picture to picture: Levels should be "Inside" the threshold:
They are if adjusting the associated "Noise Reduction Amount" from
0 to 100 turns that Noise Level from OFF to way too much on!

d) I enabled "Very Low Frequency" for ISO 400 and 800 that have
lots of low freq. noise. However, I turned DOWN high frequency
Amounts to leave more High Frequency!
You may say: Hey, shouldn't it this be the other way around?
Shouldn't I use LESS High Freq. Amount for Lower ISO that has more
High Freq details? NO, you should not! Remember the Filter Settings
are RELATIVE to each Profile: AND the ISO 100 Profile has not
detected a lot of High Freq noise for the relatively clean ISO 100 !

There's more to it, but I hope this helps !!!

Geir Ove
lcmacedo said:
Geir: I have developed noise profiles for the 7Hi for all ISO using
the NI target chart and they work very well, but I did not tweak
the filters, just the profiles. Did you use any "standard"procedure
for that or just tuned the filters by experimentation?

Lucas
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Could anyone comment on the efficacy of the noise reduction features of Photoshop CS (when editing RAW images) versus other programs and plugins?

I have only used CS with my new A1. I really, really like shooting and editing in RAW. But are there other options that are markedly better for noise reduction?
 
Thanks Geir,

I appreciate sharing your work. So far, I like what I am getting :-)

Looking forward to the sharpening update ;-)

Cheers

Smatty
http://www.hamburgcam.com/night
 
Hello,

Thanks. I will do some more work and hopefully get time to update my pages with a "How to". I will check some of my ideas with the Neat Image Team as well.

Geir Ove
smatty said:
Thanks Geir,

I appreciate sharing your work. So far, I like what I am getting :-)

Looking forward to the sharpening update ;-)

Cheers

Smatty
http://www.hamburgcam.com/night
Click to expand...
 
in my previous posting !

You have INDEED created your own Filter Presets: I have tested your ISO 200 and 400 Filter Preset, and they look good.

Strong Points:
  • Keeps the details
Weak points
  • To easy on Color Noise
My Filter Presets:

Stong points:
  • Better Color Noise suppression
  • Maybe a little to strong filtering of details at ISO 200 and 400.
Youi can test the Color Noise suppression on my samples here:

http://www.objective.no/geirove/web/noise_reduction.htm

lool at the links to the crops down on the page. These pictures are 100% crops, but may have a little more JPEG compression than you like.

the Telveision screen (tv turned off!) shows Color Noise especially on the righ side of the screen from ISO 100 and up.

Geir Ove
Jawed said:
I posted my attempts recently.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6782018

If anyone can be bothered to compare Geir's with mine, then feel free!

Jawed
Click to expand...
 
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