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Z8 F1 and F2 Ergonomics coming from D500

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Radu Tenenbaum

Radu Tenenbaum

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One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.

Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
 
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It's a difficult balancing act, for large and small hands. Perhaps Nikon went a little too far after seeing complaints about the grip depth on the original Z cameras.

I wear XL gloves. My Z6 got scratched and worn around the F1 and F2 body area if my fingernails needed trimming. And I'd trigger the F1 or F2 a lot when I wore winter gloves.

Now, the Z6 iii is just a little deeper, and it's working better for me. I still accidentally trigger F1 or F2 occasionally, even without gloves.
 
Maybe look to change your shooting workflow/the way you take pictures if you need to constantly keep 4 buttons pressed in order to capture images.

A lot of people find the capabilities of the newer mirrorless cameras allow them to change the way they used to shoot with older dslr tech.
 
Suntan said:
Maybe look to change your shooting workflow/the way you take pictures if you need to constantly keep 4 buttons pressed in order to capture images.

A lot of people find the capabilities of the newer mirrorless cameras allow them to change the way they used to shoot with older dslr tech.
Click to expand...
I have F1 set to quickly change to 3D from my normal Large Wide Area focusing, so back button focus, F1, and the shutter all need to be pressed the same time when taking a shot after switching focus modes on the fly. I'll adapt, for sure, but it's an annoyance.
 
Suntan said:
Maybe look to change your shooting workflow/the way you take pictures if you need to constantly keep 4 buttons pressed in order to capture images.

A lot of people find the capabilities of the newer mirrorless cameras allow them to change the way they used to shoot with older dslr tech.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's "constantly"? And it's usually F1 or F2, not both at once.

You have a good point about the possible availability of alternate methods with the new controls on Z cameras. But I do use my F1 and F2 a lot, and I've never used a DSLR.

Some F1 or F2 settings are "press to set" and others are "press and hold while using a command dial". That press and hold would be more difficult if it was a stretch to reach the buttons.

~~~

There is a press and release option, instead of holding the button. I use this setting, and it's much better for me.

On my Z6 and now on the Z6 iii, I set the "Release button to use dial"=On.

Z8 menu -- f6: Release Button to Use Dial.

Originally, the Exposure Comp button was quite awkward: Move the index finger to the Exp Comp and hold it. Now use the middle finger to turn the front command dial. (or the rear dial is slightly easier -- either one works.)

With this f6 setting, I now press and release Exp Comp -- the Exp Comp value in the view turns yellow, and I can use my index finger on the dial. That's much better, and I can even take my time and evaluate the different amounts in the view while I click the dial. Half press the shutter to set the new value.

On my Z6 iii, this press and release works with the Release Mode button, with ISO, with Exp Comp, and with the F1 or F2 if they are a "press and hold" custom control.

My F1 is set to "Focus Mode / AF-area mode". That's a press and hold, then one command dial switches between AF-S, AF-C, or M. The other dial clicks through the list of AF modes that I have on my checkmarked list.

Now it's easier to just briefly press F1 and then use the dials.
 
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jthomas39 said:
~~~

There is a press and release option, instead of holding the button. I use this setting, and it's much better for me.

On my Z6 and now on the Z6 iii, I set the "Release button to use dial"=On.

Z8 menu -- f6: Release Button to Use Dial.

Originally, the Exposure Comp button was quite awkward: Move the index finger to the Exp Comp and hold it. Now use the middle finger to turn the front command dial. (or the rear dial is slightly easier -- either one works.)

With this f6 setting, I now press and release Exp Comp -- the Exp Comp value in the view turns yellow, and I can use my index finger on the dial. That's much better, and I can even take my time and evaluate the different amounts in the view while I click the dial. Half press the shutter to set the new value.

On my Z6 iii, this press and release works with the Release Mode button, with ISO, with Exp Comp, and with the F1 or F2 if they are a "press and hold" custom control.

My F1 is set to "Focus Mode / AF-area mode". That's a press and hold, then one command dial switches between AF-S, AF-C, or M. The other dial clicks through the list of AF modes that I have on my checkmarked list. It's easier to just briefly press F1 and then use the dials.
Click to expand...
In photo shooting mode I have the video button set to toggle through the focus modes. But with F1, I want instantaneous switch to 3D mode without having to twirl the command dial. So as long as I hold the F1 button pressed, it stays in 3D mode, and when I release it it reverts to the previous focusing mode. I wish it was a toggle, so that I could release F1 and have it stay in 3D until I press it again or press the shutter.
 
Radu Tenenbaum said:
Suntan said:
Maybe look to change your shooting workflow/the way you take pictures if you need to constantly keep 4 buttons pressed in order to capture images.

A lot of people find the capabilities of the newer mirrorless cameras allow them to change the way they used to shoot with older dslr tech.
Click to expand...
I have F1 set to quickly change to 3D from my normal Large Wide Area focusing, so back button focus, F1, and the shutter all need to be pressed the same time when taking a shot after switching focus modes on the fly. I'll adapt, for sure, but it's an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Oh, this might have a useful alternate method. Something like my Z6 iii setup, but you have more control options on the Z8, I think.

I do 3D handoff or just 3D mode itself with a second "AF-On" button. Here's what I did:

I have AF-On=only, so no half press shutter.

The AF-On button is the currently selected AF mode. It's often on Wide area small or large, or the C1 or C2 custom sized AF boxes (and those are easy to resize without going into the menu.)

I changed the DISP button=AF-area mode+AF-On. This setting has a right arrow to select from the list of area modes. I selected 3D-tracking.

I changed the sub-selector center=DISP to switch views (this is the joystick press.) I don't change the view style too often, so this is good. It's not as easy to accurately center press the joystick, compared to reaching the DISP button.

Tracking hand off!

I have Subject Detect turned on.

I hold Af-On, and when the subject is detected, I can let go, then press the DISP button. This is easy to do by feel. I think I need to press the DISP button within about 1/2 to 1 second to hand off the subject. Now it tracks all over the scene.

EDIT-- I see that the subject tracking sees a subject even before I press AF-On. So if it's already tracking an eye, for example, I just need to press DISP. that's slick.

3D only:

If I just use the DISP button, not the AF-On, it's in 3D tracking mode. It tracks with or without subject detect. Before pressing DISP, I center the desired 3D subject in the center of the AF-On's current AF box. That's usually in the center of the scene, but if I had moved the AF box with the joystick, that's where the 3D box will appear.

Hold the DISP button, and the 3D tracking box appears and starts tracking. Stop holding the button, and the 3D resets for a possible new subject-- good.

I like this 3D only for tracking focus on landscape subjects too. I can track that focus and recompose the scene, and even move around while keeping focus. Nice! Of course, this only works in AF-C. If I'm using AF-S, the DISP button just matches the AF-On focus method.
 
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jthomas39 said:
Oh, this might have a useful alternate method. Something like my Z6 iii setup, but you have more control options on the Z8, I think.

I do 3D handoff or just 3D mode itself with a second "AF-On" button. Here's what I did:

I have AF-On=only, so no half press shutter.

The AF-On button is the currently selected AF mode. It's often on Wide area small or large, or the C1 or C2 custom sized AF boxes (and those are easy to resize without going into the menu.)

I changed the DISP button=AF-area mode+AF-On. This setting has a right arrow to select from the list of area modes. I selected 3D-tracking.

I changed the sub-selector center=DISP to switch views (this is the joystick press.) I don't change the view style too often, so this is good. It's not as easy to accurately center press the joystick, compared to reaching the DISP button.

Tracking hand off!

I have Subject Detect turned on.

I hold Af-On, and when the subject is detected, I can let go, then press the DISP button. This is easy to do by feel. I think I need to press the DISP button within about 1/2 to 1 second to hand off the subject. Now it tracks all over the scene.

EDIT-- I see that the subject tracking sees a subject even before I press AF-On. So if it's already tracking an eye, for example, I just need to press DISP. that's slick.

3D only:

If I just use the DISP button, not the AF-On, it's in 3D tracking mode. It tracks with or without subject detect. Before pressing DISP, I center the desired 3D subject in the center of the AF-On's current AF box. That's usually in the center of the scene, but if I had moved the AF box with the joystick, that's where the 3D box will appear.

Hold the DISP button, and the 3D tracking box appears and starts tracking. Stop holding the button, and the 3D resets for a possible new subject-- good.

I like this 3D only for tracking focus on landscape subjects too. I can track that focus and recompose the scene, and even move around while keeping focus. Nice! Of course, this only works in AF-C. If I'm using AF-S, the DISP button just matches the AF-On focus method.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I like it! Just tried this and it may work for me. My only concern is that during that instant when you're switching focus from AF-ON to DISP buttons, you lose focus.

I like having the joystick center the focus, but I can assign DISP to one of hard to reach (for me) F buttons.

--
Radu
www.raduray.com
 
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Radu Tenenbaum said:
One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.
Click to expand...
A big reason I chose the Z9 over the Z8 is that I had the Nikon MB-D17 battery grip basically welded to my D500. The D500 with grip is similar in size to the Z9 with the DSLR being a bit taller.



Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Personally, the Z9 is a great fit for my hands, which are average in size.

Here's a comparison photo showing the Z9 side-by-side with the Z8 and its grip.



Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip

The impression this photo gives is that the Z8 with grip is much taller by comparison with the Z9; taller than the D500 with its OEM grip.
Radu Tenenbaum said:
Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
Click to expand...
7105e419a3514008b1c089b61dbd7b76.jpg.png

Looking at the positions of the function buttons, I'd say the Fn1 buttons look to be positioned similarly with respect to the shutter release buttons. The Z9's Fn2 button is positioned a bit closer to the grip. I find all three function buttons on the Z9 reachable with my middle, fourth and pinky fingers. That said, I often make the same assignment to the Fn1 and Fn3 buttons so it's available when holding the Z9 in either landscape or portrait orientation.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
Radu Tenenbaum said:
Suntan said:
Maybe look to change your shooting workflow/the way you take pictures if you need to constantly keep 4 buttons pressed in order to capture images.

A lot of people find the capabilities of the newer mirrorless cameras allow them to change the way they used to shoot with older dslr tech.
Click to expand...
I have F1 set to quickly change to 3D from my normal Large Wide Area focusing, so back button focus, F1, and the shutter all need to be pressed the same time when taking a shot after switching focus modes on the fly.
Click to expand...
Yeah, BBF was pretty much what I was talking about when I suggested looking at changing your workflow.

Unpopular opinion around here, but frankly I believe BBF is an outdated method of shooting with today's camera systems. Simply put, today's cameras have much better things for your thumb to be doing while you are shooting than just mashing down a button to make the camera AF.

If a guy's shooting style is such that he takes the majority of his shots with the AF off, then BBF makes sense (like it did back in the day when focus and re-compose was so common to get the most out of that one cross-type sensor in the very center of the viewfinder.) But if most of your shots are taken with the AF active while you press the shutter, then BBF shooting all the time doesn't make sense.

Free that thumb up to do your 3D handoff, or any number of other functions, and you might find your shooting workflow speeds up and becomes less taxing. (Personally, I have AF-ON set to do 3D handoff, and DISP set to engage the Recall Shooting Function. That way I can switch between either of those without affecting AF tracking on my subject. This while leaving fn1 available to switch to the older dynamic 9 box focusing when the camera can't "smart focus" on my subject with either of the focus tracking methods available.)

Lastly, you can always assign a dedicated button to override and cancel AF, so even when you have AF assigned to the shutter half-press, you can always "turn off" AF by pressing the button assigned to override AF. So if you shoot most of your shots with AF running during capture, use one button to do both, and relagate two buttons (shutter + override AF) for the fewer times you want to focus and recompose.
 
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Bill Ferris said:
Radu Tenenbaum said:
One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.
Click to expand...
A big reason I chose the Z9 over the Z8 is that I had the Nikon MB-D17 battery grip basically welded to my D500. The D500 with grip is similar in size to the Z9 with the DSLR being a bit taller.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Personally, the Z9 is a great fit for my hands, which are average in size.

Here's a comparison photo showing the Z9 side-by-side with the Z8 and its grip.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip

The impression this photo gives is that the Z8 with grip is much taller by comparison with the Z9; taller than the D500 with its OEM grip.
Bill Ferris said:
Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
Click to expand...
7105e419a3514008b1c089b61dbd7b76.jpg.png

Looking at the positions of the function buttons, I'd say the Fn1 buttons look to be positioned similarly with respect to the shutter release buttons. The Z9's Fn2 button is positioned a bit closer to the grip. I find all three function buttons on the Z9 reachable with my middle, fourth and pinky fingers. That said, I often make the same assignment to the Fn1 and Fn3 buttons so it's available when holding the Z9 in either landscape or portrait orientation.
Click to expand...
Agree, fn1 and fn3 get the same thing assigned to them so fn3 can act like fn1 in portrait mode. I think Canon's approach to having a set of fn1&2 buttons in both landscape and portrait is the better layout.
Bill Ferris said:
--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
Click to expand...
 
Radu Tenenbaum said:
jthomas39 said:
Oh, this might have a useful alternate method. Something like my Z6 iii setup, but you have more control options on the Z8, I think.

I do 3D handoff or just 3D mode itself with a second "AF-On" button. Here's what I did:

I have AF-On=only, so no half press shutter.

The AF-On button is the currently selected AF mode. It's often on Wide area small or large, or the C1 or C2 custom sized AF boxes (and those are easy to resize without going into the menu.)

I changed the DISP button=AF-area mode+AF-On. This setting has a right arrow to select from the list of area modes. I selected 3D-tracking.

I changed the sub-selector center=DISP to switch views (this is the joystick press.) I don't change the view style too often, so this is good. It's not as easy to accurately center press the joystick, compared to reaching the DISP button.

Tracking hand off!

I have Subject Detect turned on.

I hold Af-On, and when the subject is detected, I can let go, then press the DISP button. This is easy to do by feel. I think I need to press the DISP button within about 1/2 to 1 second to hand off the subject. Now it tracks all over the scene.

EDIT-- I see that the subject tracking sees a subject even before I press AF-On. So if it's already tracking an eye, for example, I just need to press DISP. that's slick.

3D only:

If I just use the DISP button, not the AF-On, it's in 3D tracking mode. It tracks with or without subject detect. Before pressing DISP, I center the desired 3D subject in the center of the AF-On's current AF box. That's usually in the center of the scene, but if I had moved the AF box with the joystick, that's where the 3D box will appear.

Hold the DISP button, and the 3D tracking box appears and starts tracking. Stop holding the button, and the 3D resets for a possible new subject-- good.

I like this 3D only for tracking focus on landscape subjects too. I can track that focus and recompose the scene, and even move around while keeping focus. Nice! Of course, this only works in AF-C. If I'm using AF-S, the DISP button just matches the AF-On focus method.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I like it! Just tried this and it may work for me. My only concern is that during that instant when you're switching focus from AF-ON to DISP buttons, you lose focus.

I like having the joystick center the focus, but I can assign DISP to one of hard to reach (for me) F buttons.
Click to expand...
Do you use subject detect combined with a AF area? Do you ever find yourself in a situation where you'd like to quickly change to a different subject detect mode? Consider assigning Recall Shooting Functions (hold) to the DISP button with the alternative subject detect mode enabled.

If you'd like an escape option to quickly disable subject detect, altogether, assign a dynamic area AF mode to Fn1. Subject detect can't be active in a dynamic area mode.

If you'd like to quickly switch between 3D and a select group of other area modes with subject detect still active, assign the video record button to toggle through that custom list of AF area modes. Each tap cycles one step through the list.
 
Suntan said:
Bill Ferris said:
Radu Tenenbaum said:
One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.
Click to expand...
A big reason I chose the Z9 over the Z8 is that I had the Nikon MB-D17 battery grip basically welded to my D500. The D500 with grip is similar in size to the Z9 with the DSLR being a bit taller.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Personally, the Z9 is a great fit for my hands, which are average in size.

Here's a comparison photo showing the Z9 side-by-side with the Z8 and its grip.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip

The impression this photo gives is that the Z8 with grip is much taller by comparison with the Z9; taller than the D500 with its OEM grip.
Suntan said:
Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
Click to expand...
7105e419a3514008b1c089b61dbd7b76.jpg.png

Looking at the positions of the function buttons, I'd say the Fn1 buttons look to be positioned similarly with respect to the shutter release buttons. The Z9's Fn2 button is positioned a bit closer to the grip. I find all three function buttons on the Z9 reachable with my middle, fourth and pinky fingers. That said, I often make the same assignment to the Fn1 and Fn3 buttons so it's available when holding the Z9 in either landscape or portrait orientation.
Click to expand...
Agree, fn1 and fn3 get the same thing assigned to them so fn3 can act like fn1 in portrait mode. I think Canon's approach to having a set of fn1&2 buttons in both landscape and portrait is the better layout.
Click to expand...
That limits you to only Canon mount glass, which is a hard, no, for me.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
Bill Ferris said:
Suntan said:
Bill Ferris said:
Radu Tenenbaum said:
One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.
Click to expand...
A big reason I chose the Z9 over the Z8 is that I had the Nikon MB-D17 battery grip basically welded to my D500. The D500 with grip is similar in size to the Z9 with the DSLR being a bit taller.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Personally, the Z9 is a great fit for my hands, which are average in size.

Here's a comparison photo showing the Z9 side-by-side with the Z8 and its grip.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip

The impression this photo gives is that the Z8 with grip is much taller by comparison with the Z9; taller than the D500 with its OEM grip.
Bill Ferris said:
Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
Click to expand...
7105e419a3514008b1c089b61dbd7b76.jpg.png

Looking at the positions of the function buttons, I'd say the Fn1 buttons look to be positioned similarly with respect to the shutter release buttons. The Z9's Fn2 button is positioned a bit closer to the grip. I find all three function buttons on the Z9 reachable with my middle, fourth and pinky fingers. That said, I often make the same assignment to the Fn1 and Fn3 buttons so it's available when holding the Z9 in either landscape or portrait orientation.
Click to expand...
Agree, fn1 and fn3 get the same thing assigned to them so fn3 can act like fn1 in portrait mode. I think Canon's approach to having a set of fn1&2 buttons in both landscape and portrait is the better layout.
Click to expand...
That limits you to only Canon mount glass, which is a hard, no, for me.
Click to expand...
I just meant Canon's choice to put two complete sets of fn1&2 buttons for both landscape and portrait grips on their gripped bodies is a better choice than Nikon's single set of fn1,2,3 buttons. Not that canon's cameras are better.
Bill Ferris said:
--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
Click to expand...
 
Suntan said:
Bill Ferris said:
Suntan said:
Bill Ferris said:
Radu Tenenbaum said:
One issue that's come up as I'm familiarizing myself with my new Z8 is the grip size. While the grip size is the same as that on my old D500, the body is thinner and thus the distance from the top of the grip to the F1 and F2 is larger and the buttons are difficult to reach with my small hands. I wish Nikon had raised those buttons to maintain the same ergonomics as on the DSLR's.
Click to expand...
A big reason I chose the Z9 over the Z8 is that I had the Nikon MB-D17 battery grip basically welded to my D500. The D500 with grip is similar in size to the Z9 with the DSLR being a bit taller.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.
Depth comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and D500 w/ MB-D17 battery grip.

Personally, the Z9 is a great fit for my hands, which are average in size.

Here's a comparison photo showing the Z9 side-by-side with the Z8 and its grip.

Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip
Size comparison between Nikon Z9 (left) and Z8 with MB-N14 battery grip

The impression this photo gives is that the Z8 with grip is much taller by comparison with the Z9; taller than the D500 with its OEM grip.
Suntan said:
Thumb on the AF/ON button, index finger on the shutter button, fingers 3 and 4 on the F buttons. It's a stretch.
Click to expand...
7105e419a3514008b1c089b61dbd7b76.jpg.png

Looking at the positions of the function buttons, I'd say the Fn1 buttons look to be positioned similarly with respect to the shutter release buttons. The Z9's Fn2 button is positioned a bit closer to the grip. I find all three function buttons on the Z9 reachable with my middle, fourth and pinky fingers. That said, I often make the same assignment to the Fn1 and Fn3 buttons so it's available when holding the Z9 in either landscape or portrait orientation.
Click to expand...
Agree, fn1 and fn3 get the same thing assigned to them so fn3 can act like fn1 in portrait mode. I think Canon's approach to having a set of fn1&2 buttons in both landscape and portrait is the better layout.
Click to expand...
That limits you to only Canon mount glass, which is a hard, no, for me.
Click to expand...
I just meant Canon's choice to put two complete sets of fn1&2 buttons for both landscape and portrait grips on their gripped bodies is a better choice than Nikon's single set of fn1,2,3 buttons. Not that canon's cameras are better.
Click to expand...
Seems a "grass is always greener" observation. The Z9 controls don't limit my access to features. The way some of those features are designed in the firmware can be limiting but it's worth it to have use of the glass.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
I remember the D500 gave me a slight advantage in access to the front camera right hand Fn buttons compared to the D850 and D5. Small differences in position of controls seem to magnify when the camera is in one's hands, and the Right Hand particularly.

I also prefer fully gripped ILCs, and have Z9's and a D6. I find the D6 fits my hand better, just because of the subtle swelling under the palm of my right hand. I don't envy Nikon designers who have to try and finalize a one shape/size fits all with respect to ergonomics!

The steep growth in new menu controls available in today's cameras of the Z EXPEED7 generation further complicates the haptics arena! This applies particularly to the inherent hardware design of Nikon's Mirrorless AF system. It's efficient usage invariably requires hot swopping between AF Modes using custom controls. This situation is pushing to the limit the time honoured Giugiaro Buttons&Dials principle of camera design.
 
There is a fundamental difference "under the customization hood" between swopping AF modes (using Function buttons) of the D500 (D5) generation versus the D6 and Z9 cameras. Nikon and third party guides don't spell this out fully.

The older DSLRs introduced the AF Override switching method; yes, using the very powerful AFmode+AFOn custom settings. This was an important advancement in extending from Nikon's traditional applications of the principles of Giugiaro Buttons&Dials haptics (shaping Nikon cameras since the 1980s).

Leveraging new possibilities opened up with using the AF Override method, Nikon added Focus Persistence in the D6, and this function is available in all the EXPEED7 Z cameras. Focus Persistence turns on dynamic inheritance of the active AF point between AFmodes. When used with camera-controlled AF modes, Focus Persistence underwrites the ability to dynamically control the active AF point on moving subjects. This functionality underwrites the AF HandOff method.

https://bcgforums.com/threads/focus-persistence-nikon-af-d6-and-z9.19287/post-214800

HandOffs work seamlessly provided there's no Stop/Start in pressing Function buttons. Hence it's simpler to swop AFmodes with the fingers of the right hand on the front camera, and/or the L-Fn buttons under one's left hand.

A Handoff is much trickier using controls under the Right thumb only, especially when using BBAF to activate primary focus. It's also unfortunate that the most useful Press-Button-Once&Dial setting option also doesn't open up feasible customization options in a HandOff setup configuration.

You might find it helpful to get Thom Hogan's recently published ebook about Customization of the Z Nikon cameras

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4806945#forum-post-68313444
 
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