Has a consensus now developed on the new GFX100RF?

Ignoring the hype, do photographers and credible reviewers have a consensus yet on this new, fixed lens model? Anyone care to attempt objectivity and boil it down for a FF user? Thank you for your concise thoughts. I see lots for sale on Fred Miranda.
tldr; I enjoy the experience of the RF more than my other cameras.

You are not going to find a consensus because this camera doesn't fit nicely into a preexisting niche. It does so many things well if you only focus on one aspect you will not see the value that this camera provides. A few of the dichotomies:
  1. It is relatively expensive for a point and shoot.
  2. Some of its biggest features are related to in camera development, yet some see it as a waste of the MF sensor and 100MP.
  3. This camera is perfect for the hipster trend of small retro gear, but it is primarily being judged by MF photographers who use MF in a different way.
  4. It shoots incredible video and yet it is photocentric camera.
  5. It has every manual dial you could want and yet can be shot as a fully automatic camera.
I could go on, but those are the core aspects that will prevent the consensus from ever being formed, for at least five to ten years. I think in five to ten years this camera is going to be considered a classic, and as of today the world just isn't ready for it.
 
It has every manual dial you could want and yet can be shot as a fully automatic camera.
There is no consensus. Believe it or not -- I wish the aspect ratio dial were a film sim dial!

I change my film sims once per shooting session. Depending on the scene, light, etc., at the beginning of the session, I choose a certain "film."

E.g., "Today looks like a Gold200 kinda day."

The Q menu on the GFX100RF is perfectly fine for this, don't get me wrong.

But the new dial on the X-E5 seems not bad at all for this (if you could only customize each setting instead of just 3).

You can't change your aspect ratios using the GFX100RF dial from the shooting position (i.e., without taking your eye away from framing your shot) anyway. So I mapped it to a command dial. So that dial goes unused.

If it were a film sim dial (with customizable recipes) instead, I'd actually have a use for it.

But I totally agree. Capabilities don't mean much to me for this camera. It's just fun and largely gets out of the way of my shooting. I am a natural 28mm shooter though.
 
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I mentored a Command Master Sargent Sniper in photography and he mentored and coached me in my competitive shooting days. I made him a better photographer and he made me a better photographer along with a few first place prizes in my shooting hobby.

How did he make me a better photographer - his firearms coaching resulted in a much more stable platform and better photographic skill craft.

The key in both is proper technique
- and amazedly enough hitting a bulls eye shot after shot in succession and hitting every image sharp and in focus are common skills. You get better at both by embracing the suck of missed shots or bad images and keep on training until the suck is not as bad and keep training more.

The worst habit one sees in both new shooters and new photographers is using only one eye, not synchronizing breathing with the trigger or shutter, to much pressure on trigger or shutter and the "chicken wing" off arm position. This will be the left arm for a photographer. It could be either for a rifle or hand gun. By that I mean when the left arm is open in the air like a chicken holding his wing out. That elbow should be planted firmly against the body for stability. Along with that, gun shooters practice and prefect what is know as "push-pull." That is the hand on the handle (in case of the camera the right hand on the camera) gives a slight push to to the other hand which provides resistance with a slight "pull." That provides stability in both cases.

https://photographybay.com/2009/12/07/4-principles-of-photography-marksmanship/

https://fstoppers.com/education/how-advice-marksmen-can-improve-your-photography-technique-378034
Truman whadday reckon. This was my best at 1/8 sec from 5 shots 100Rf handheld standing utilising tilt screen : breathing technique synchronised with gentle single shutter press, arms tucked in natural for me, left leg comfortably in front leaning bracing on left leg a little as my right knee messed up a bit.

View attachment 1d48ea6872d146ccaecc58436b89acb3.jpg
Sweaty hands nervous standing 1/8 sec 100Rf focus on lenses as well as their printed labels utilising tilt screen. March in Fuji house of photography.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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I'd judge it this way:

Can I see any difference in my prints between the output of say a £400 X-T2, a £700 A7Rii (sourced from MPB) and a 10-15x more expensive £7000 hassie body.

If I can't see any difference in the prints, I might need to either:

Print bigger!

or

Think very carefully about why I want the Hassie.

Is it the practical image quality for my use case? Or is something else (say the traditional romance and the glamour of a famous Chinese drone manufacturer brand).

If it were the latter, I might want to have my sanity independently checked, or be sufficiently wealthy that the price is irrelevant.

I personally have no issue with someone who is rich wanting to use their money inefficiently just because they can. I'd feel a bit sad for someone who can't really afford it, but who lets the fantasy/glamour get to their head. The new-car sheen wears off fairly quickly, then you are left with the real world.

That's my take on it.

One practical problem in all this is it is not very easy for most people to get hold of and test expensive products in advance of purchase (at least not where I live). That means your initial GAS is driven by hearsay and your own tendency to hype up the worth of a prospective purchase in your own head untempered by real world practical experience. It's usually my experience that GAS creates rose tinted glasses that only hands-on experience can illuminate properly. It's especially the case with high end products that are way beyond your usual experience. The reality can often be less than hoped.

It's an eye opener to me that no one appears to be able to see any image quality difference between m43 and GFX with my 12" prints. The printer/inkset/paper is the primary determiner of print quality here, not the camera.
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter. I have 28-63mm zoom range with such small and conveniently balanced camera. On MFT you can mimic this with a good and relative small 14-35 f1.4-4 lens, still with GFX I have that mighty 100MP resolution at wide end, and there is the other benefit beside printing size: documentation - capturing huge amount of data in one exposure. I can always print large, inspect details zooming in, or I like the ability of post composing. There are lot of situation when I just don't have enough time for thinking of right the composition, or later I'd cut off large parts. Example from yesterday:

Post-cropped image
Post-cropped image

View attachment fc6fca9050bc4f708278f122c5ba493f.jpg
The shot

And the image quality, resolution is the half of the story, other half is the camera itself. You may not interested in quality of the body, overall construction, but in my case Fuji just nailed it, I've been hungry for a thin and premium build quality rangefinder camera with large sensor and small lens, and high magnification EVF, also high resolution tilt screen has been also my expectation, where the A7CR utterly failed. If Sony has came up with GFX100RF like ILCE body, I'm almost sure I'd never go for the RF, even with my excitement for MF sensor.
 
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For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
 
Measurements

Latitude London

Noon midsummer

Clear day, with blazing sun, maybe a bit of haze higher up

Panel orientated as head on as possible. It's a slightly flexible panel so without support it curves a bit so not exactly face on.

I don't have two multimeters that are working at the moment so I had to measure voltage and current separately

Short circuit Voltage: 26v (in spec with label on the rear of panel)

Open circuit current: 5A (the label say 8A)
How can there be any current at all into an open circuit? I'm confused here.
Sorry, mad typo, Should have read short circuit
 
I'd judge it this way:

Can I see any difference in my prints between the output of say a £400 X-T2, a £700 A7Rii (sourced from MPB) and a 10-15x more expensive £7000 hassie body.

If I can't see any difference in the prints, I might need to either:

Print bigger!

or

Think very carefully about why I want the Hassie.

Is it the practical image quality for my use case? Or is something else (say the traditional romance and the glamour of a famous Chinese drone manufacturer brand).

If it were the latter, I might want to have my sanity independently checked, or be sufficiently wealthy that the price is irrelevant.

I personally have no issue with someone who is rich wanting to use their money inefficiently just because they can. I'd feel a bit sad for someone who can't really afford it, but who lets the fantasy/glamour get to their head. The new-car sheen wears off fairly quickly, then you are left with the real world.

That's my take on it.

One practical problem in all this is it is not very easy for most people to get hold of and test expensive products in advance of purchase (at least not where I live). That means your initial GAS is driven by hearsay and your own tendency to hype up the worth of a prospective purchase in your own head untempered by real world practical experience. It's usually my experience that GAS creates rose tinted glasses that only hands-on experience can illuminate properly. It's especially the case with high end products that are way beyond your usual experience. The reality can often be less than hoped.

It's an eye opener to me that no one appears to be able to see any image quality difference between m43 and GFX with my 12" prints. The printer/inkset/paper is the primary determiner of print quality here, not the camera.
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter. I have 28-63mm zoom range with such small and conveniently balanced camera. On MFT you can mimic this with a good and relative small 14-35 f1.4-4 lens, still with GFX I have that mighty 100MP resolution at wide end, and there is the other benefit beside printing size: documentation - capturing huge amount of data in one exposure. I can always print large, inspect details zooming in, or I like the ability of post composing. There are lot of situation when I just don't have enough time for thinking of right the composition, or later I'd cut off large parts. Example from yesterday:

Post-cropped image
Post-cropped image

View attachment fc6fca9050bc4f708278f122c5ba493f.jpg
The shot

And the image quality, resolution is the half of the story, other half is the camera itself. You may not interested in quality of the body, overall construction, but in my case Fuji just nailed it, I've been hungry for a thin and premium build quality rangefinder camera with large sensor and small lens, and high magnification EVF, also high resolution tilt screen has been also my expectation, where the A7CR utterly failed. If Sony has came up with GFX100RF like ILCE body, I'm almost sure I'd never go for the RF, even with my excitement for MF sensor.
I think this is the perfect example of getting what you want in camera, and keeping the RAW to tell an additional story, later if you want.

I have an a7cr and it was the perfect do everything camera, except it wasn't as flat as I like a camera so I couldn't take it everywhere with the big glass, etc... While I wouldn't say the a7cr utterly failed (I do use it for video, and pixelshift), I know what you mean when you say the RF gives you more of what you want.
 
Measurements

Latitude London

Noon midsummer

Clear day, with blazing sun, maybe a bit of haze higher up

Panel orientated as head on as possible. It's a slightly flexible panel so without support it curves a bit so not exactly face on.

I don't have two multimeters that are working at the moment so I had to measure voltage and current separately

Short circuit Voltage: 26v (in spec with label on the rear of panel)

Open circuit current: 5A (the label say 8A)
How can there be any current at all into an open circuit? I'm confused here.
Sorry, mad typo, Should have read short circuit
Gotcha.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
He said the benefit is "digital teleconverter". (I don't know if other GFX/MF cameras have this feature)




You changed the meaning to "cropping" and brought other cameras into conversation.

The comparison, baseline, etc... is digital teleconversion, not cropping.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
He said the benefit is "digital teleconverter". (I don't know if other GFX/MF cameras have this feature)

You changed the meaning to "cropping" and brought other cameras into conversation.
Cropping is what a digital TC does.
The comparison, baseline, etc... is digital teleconversion, not cropping.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
He said the benefit is "digital teleconverter". (I don't know if other GFX/MF cameras have this feature)

You changed the meaning to "cropping" and brought other cameras into conversation.
Cropping is what a digital TC does.
Agreed, but not all cameras can do digital TC in camera.
The comparison, baseline, etc... is digital teleconversion, not cropping.
 
I was speaking about many photographic related stuff with guys from my photographic group and they were showing their top end Nikon Z stuff. I asked them what they thought was the biggest benefit of the Z9/Z8 and they both said "cropping ability". Even more so with 100MP. I get that aspect, you can't always nail the composition or you change your mind later. The more pixels to hand, the better.

The in hand feel of cameras can be important and I don't think Sony have really sussed this aspect. Their cameras are a bit more gadget-like than some longer established brands.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
He said the benefit is "digital teleconverter". (I don't know if other GFX/MF cameras have this feature)

You changed the meaning to "cropping" and brought other cameras into conversation.
Cropping is what a digital TC does.
Agreed, but not all cameras can do digital TC in camera.
The comparison, baseline, etc... is digital teleconversion, not cropping.
Most cameras offer some sort of choice of aspect ratio in camera. That's cropping. The RF just expands this offer to crops that mimic certain fields of view. It's no different.

I think every brand should offer a custom crop mode that is an aspect ratio adjuster. Turn the knob to left to narrow the left and right sides, turn the knob to the right to narrow the top and bottom thereby simultaneous providing any aspect ratio and any field of view crop with a single control.

All it does is change the viewfinder anyway. It's a compositional aid more than anything.
 
For me the most benefit is the digital teleconverter.
Every GFX made allows cropping. Actually, every MF camera allows cropping.
Yes, and the GFX100RF is one of them.
So the benefit that you're talking about applies to all MF cameras?
Jim, this almost reads like you are arguing with yourself...
The concept of a benefit implies a comparison, typically to some baseline, alternative, or prior state. For something to be identified as a benefit, it must provide an advantage, improvement, or gain relative to something else.

Examples:
  • “The benefit of this medication” implies it performs better than no medication or a different one.
  • “One benefit of working remotely is flexibility” assumes a comparison to on-site work.
  • “This lens design reduces spherical aberration, which is a benefit compared to the earlier version.”
Without comparison, explicit or implied, the word benefit loses its evaluative meaning.
He said the benefit is "digital teleconverter". (I don't know if other GFX/MF cameras have this feature)

You changed the meaning to "cropping" and brought other cameras into conversation.
Cropping is what a digital TC does.
Agreed, but not all cameras can do digital TC in camera.
I guess that's a benefit if you're shooting SOOC JPEGs, or if you have trouble visualizing cropping effects. Neither of those applies to me, so maybe I'm immune to that benefit. The only exception I can think of is if the publisher of the image requires a particular unusual aspect ratio. Then I used to use viewfinder masks. But I don't make images for other people's publications any more.
 
This is a bit like a debate over whether a Ferrari is cheap because a Mcclaren is more expensive...
I have a friend who was into mountain biking. Someone asked him how he could justify the admittedly large expenses for gear. He said: "It could be worse. I could be into airplanes, sailboats, or women other than my wife."
I'm never convinced you can justify one (possibly) dubious thing by saying at least it's not as bad as other stuff I could do instead. That's more like a threat than a justification. makes for a good one liner though :-)
 
I was speaking about many photographic related stuff with guys from my photographic group and they were showing their top end Nikon Z stuff. I asked them what they thought was the biggest benefit of the Z9/Z8 and they both said "cropping ability". Even more so with 100MP. I get that aspect, you can't always nail the composition or you change your mind later. The more pixels to hand, the better.
I have read your posts on the cost of shooting, and I can empathize. But I don't know of a new setup that can get you 100MP captured in 1/4000 of a second for less than $5k. And I don't know of any that are as compact for that price. Granted, it is the price for early adopters, but if the used prices drop, I really think the RF will become a cult classic of sorts.

I agree that cropping is an aspect of shooting that I have only really started to enjoy (and that began with the A7CR, and the RF takes it to another level. I do print big, but the cropping is why I really enjoy these big MP cameras, and for now we have to pay.
The in hand feel of cameras can be important and I don't think Sony have really sussed this aspect. Their cameras are a bit more gadget-like than some longer established brands.
I completely agree with this. If the A7CR was in the RF's body, I would not have purchased the RF.
 
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