Need a new machine - m4 mini or a pc??

Dear all... I know... this is a common question, but I couldn't find my answer in the internet reviews. Hope to hear some real user review.

I only use my laptop mostly for editing photos in Photoshop. denoise, and video editing. and most pictures are of birds. i have lots of them after a trip but I only pick a few.

I want to go low on budget - as the Mac mini m4 price is quite good. (600 USD)

i hear that:

M4 is on the same level as RTX 2050 laptop.

M4 Pro is very similar to RTX 4050 laptop.

M4 Max roughly equivalent RTX 4070 laptop.

how is it in real life? using intensively with

Photoshop

Premier

DaVinci Resolve!

(I started to edit the 8k videos from the z9 and my old laptop is not good for this).

Thank you all

Peace_VN said:

Dear all... I know... this is a common question, but I couldn't find my answer in the internet reviews. Hope to hear some real user review.

I only use my laptop mostly for editing photos in Photoshop. denoise, and video editing. and most pictures are of birds. i have lots of them after a trip but I only pick a few.

I want to go low on budget - as the Mac mini m4 price is quite good. (600 USD)

i hear that:

M4 is on the same level as RTX 2050 laptop.

M4 Pro is very similar to RTX 4050 laptop.

M4 Max roughly equivalent RTX 4070 laptop.

how is it in real life? using intensively with

Photoshop

Premier

DaVinci Resolve!

(I started to edit the 8k videos from the z9 and my old laptop is not good for this).

Thank you all

Click to expand...

As far as Mac hardware goes, Thom Hogan has a nice comprehensive summary with guidance on pitfalls of over and under spending on equipment. Will help with setting expectations. My own observation - while Adobe specs 16 GB as a minimum for LR, I'd argue that 32 GB is a realistic minimum and 64 GB is preferred, particularly if you're going to lean on video work, denoising and regenerative remove features. That puts you on an M4 Pro mini (approx $1800 and up). The base mini (mini mini?) with the $600 teaser price shouldn't be considered suitable for photo/video work imo, particularly given your stated use. On the other hand, a suitably kitted M4 Pro Mini will be a very capable machine. I think most people here supplement storage with external devices (hdd or ssd).

While I used PCs for work, I can't speak to how they perform for photo and video editing. But I'm convinced that you can configure an effective machine on either platform.

Nick

"using intensively with
Photoshop
Premier
DaVinci Resolve!
I started to edit the 8k videos"

For your use case, you had better not "cheap out" on the lowest-price m4 Mini.

You need 32gb of RAM and at least a 1tb SSD.
If you buy less, you are going to become very unhappy with it, very quickly.

You can get more for your money by buying from Apple's online refurbished store, if possible.

That's where I got my m4 Mini (32gb w/1tb SSD).

Hmmm... for 8k video, you might even want the m4pro Mini.

I would agree, an M4 Pro will be significantly better than an M4. I am saying this having 32GB M4 machine, and my 16GB M1 Pro often beats it, despite being 3 generations older and less RAM.

I'm the same. Lots of birds but only edit a handful. I use LrC. Heads up. Before the M chip (Intel) Mac offered both RAM and VRAM. Now with the M chip it is unified memory.

In January I picked up a 2024 MacBook Air M3, 24GB Ram, 512 GB SSD for travel. I usually get 256GB RAM for my travel laptops but I waited too long. If I had ordered before I left for my trip it would not hav arrived in time so I had to get what they had in stock.

A few weeks ago I picked up a Mac Mini M4, 32GB RAM and 512GB SSD.

I still have a 2019 iMac Intel, 5K, 64GB RAM, 8GB VRAM and 512GB SSD. I purchased it with 8GB RAM and installed the 56 myself. You can't do that anymore. Currently I'm using it as a monitor for the Mac Mini.

I never get more 512 SSD for my desktops because I keep my files in external 8 TB drives so my Mac drives (including my old 256GB SSD's) are never more than half full. Apple charges too much for RAM.

Let me break this down for you. Currently for Adobe Denoise AI the Neural Engine is disabled. Adobe said they didn't like the results in the shadow areas and I expect them enable it again when they resolve the issue. I purchased the Mac Mini 4 in anticipation for that to come back.

Here is an example. Before getting my 2024 MacBook Air M3 I had a 2020 MacBook Air M1, 16GB RAM. It took 85 seconds for Adobe Denoise AI. When Adobe enabled the NE that dropped to 25 seconds. I have not been able to test my new M chip devices as the NE is currently disabled.

Comparing my 2024 MacBook Air M3 to my 2019 iMac Intel which is a beefy machine 64GB RAM and 8GB VRAM. The MacBook Air M3 is way faster at everything than the iMac expect for Adobe Denoise. MacBook Air is 43 seconds and the iMac is 33 seconds. Future proofing the iMac with 8GB VRAM was a good idea. As for editing with the Air have done over 75 edits using LRC which included multiple mask. Not even a hiccup. It's excellent. So is the Mac Mini.

Currently my Mac Mini M4 is about 40 seconds for Denoise AI and I think that is because I'm using the iMac as monitor but it does not have an HDMI port. Apple purposely set it so you can't use iMac's as monitors, but there are work arounds. Currently I'm using this device and my iMac and Mac Mini are communicating via ethernet. Not ideal but pretty good.


So I can't really give you an actual Denoise time for the Mini because there is a slight delay. Fair bit of data moving back and forth between the Mini and Hub/Modem. Even with this delay for all other functions my Mac Mini is much faster than my old iMac. When Adobe enables the NE I expect some pretty significant improvements with Denoise AI. Then I may look into a monitor with an HDMI port.

My iMac Intel will not benefit from the NE and Sequoia will be the last OS upgrade I suspect. The OS upgrade is not a big deal as you get a few years of security updates for a few yeas.

I'm a hobby shooter and my new Mac Mini is more than enough for what I need. My MacBook Air rocks and the Mini is more powerful.

By the way I don't do video so I can't help there.

Zeee said:

I'm the same. Lots of birds but only edit a handful. I use LrC. Heads up. Before the M chip (Intel) Mac offered both RAM and VRAM. Now with the M chip it is unified memory.

In January I picked up a 2024 MacBook Air M3, 24GB Ram, 512 GB SSD for travel. I usually get 256GB RAM for my travel laptops but I waited too long. If I had ordered before I left for my trip it would not hav arrived in time so I had to get what they had in stock.

A few weeks ago I picked up a Mac Mini M4, 32GB RAM and 512GB SSD.

I still have a 2019 iMac Intel, 5K, 64GB RAM, 8GB VRAM and 512GB SSD. I purchased it with 8GB RAM and installed the 56 myself. You can't do that anymore. Currently I'm using it as a monitor for the Mac Mini.

I never get more 512 SSD for my desktops because I keep my files in external 8 TB drives so my Mac drives (including my old 256GB SSD's) are never more than half full. Apple charges too much for RAM.

Let me break this down for you. Currently for Adobe Denoise AI the Neural Engine is disabled. Adobe said they didn't like the results in the shadow areas and I expect them enable it again when they resolve the issue. I purchased the Mac Mini 4 in anticipation for that to come back.

Here is an example. Before getting my 2024 MacBook Air M3 I had a 2020 MacBook Air M1, 16GB RAM. It took 85 seconds for Adobe Denoise AI. When Adobe enabled the NE that dropped to 25 seconds. I have not been able to test my new M chip devices as the NE is currently disabled.

Comparing my 2024 MacBook Air M3 to my 2019 iMac Intel which is a beefy machine 64GB RAM and 8GB VRAM. The MacBook Air M3 is way faster at everything than the iMac expect for Adobe Denoise. MacBook Air is 43 seconds and the iMac is 33 seconds. Future proofing the iMac with 8GB VRAM was a good idea. As for editing with the Air have done over 75 edits using LRC which included multiple mask. Not even a hiccup. It's excellent. So is the Mac Mini.

Currently my Mac Mini M4 is about 40 seconds for Denoise AI and I think that is because I'm using the iMac as monitor but it does not have an HDMI port. Apple purposely set it so you can't use iMac's as monitors, but there are work arounds. Currently I'm using this device and my iMac and Mac Mini are communicating via ethernet. Not ideal but pretty good.

Click to expand...

There's a thread devoted to Denoise times for various iterations of Apple silicon. Hard to make definitive conclusions given testing methodology, but it is certainly representative. Also, I had encountered a www that linked to an Excel spreadsheet capturing denoising performance for DxO. No suprises, the newer and more robust machines were quicker. (DxO Deep Prime is another very capable AI based denoising program but it can be hideously slow on older equipment). I didn't bookmark the thread but I suspect someone here will recognize my description and post a link.

Nick

Zeee said:

https://astropad.com/product/lunadisplay/

So I can't really give you an actual Denoise time for the Mini because there is a slight delay. Fair bit of data moving back and forth between the Mini and Hub/Modem. Even with this delay for all other functions my Mac Mini is much faster than my old iMac. When Adobe enables the NE I expect some pretty significant improvements with Denoise AI. Then I may look into a monitor with an HDMI port.

My iMac Intel will not benefit from the NE and Sequoia will be the last OS upgrade I suspect. The OS upgrade is not a big deal as you get a few years of security updates for a few yeas.

I'm a hobby shooter and my new Mac Mini is more than enough for what I need. My MacBook Air rocks and the Mini is more powerful.

Click to expand...

Peace_VN said:

Dear all... I know... this is a common question, but I couldn't find my answer in the internet reviews. Hope to hear some real user review.

I only use my laptop mostly for editing photos in Photoshop. denoise, and video editing. and most pictures are of birds. i have lots of them after a trip but I only pick a few.

I want to go low on budget - as the Mac mini m4 price is quite good. (600 USD)

i hear that:

M4 is on the same level as RTX 2050 laptop.

M4 Pro is very similar to RTX 4050 laptop.

M4 Max roughly equivalent RTX 4070 laptop.

how is it in real life? using intensively with

Photoshop

Premier

DaVinci Resolve!

(I started to edit the 8k videos from the z9 and my old laptop is not good for this).

Thank you all

Click to expand...

When starting out back in 1994, I was willing to use both platforms (with no bias either way) and, over several years, became a firm believer in the Mac machines and Os. Supposedly, PC OS and Machines have reached parity with the Mac machines and OS. I don't attempt to use any variety of pc anymore so I found this video of a comparison to the 'surface pc' an interesting reminder. BUT, I wonder if this personl's experience is typical or bias. Does anyone have an opinion????

thank you all.

it makes me think again. If a mini pro is required with 32 GB RAM, it is not cheap at all.

well... a similar pc will be nearly the same price tag, maybe a bit less if I need more internal SSD but I believe the external NAS or HDD system is better.

I found this online:
It looks like the mini still does the job with video editing, just slower when rendering.

Peace_VN said:

thank you all.

it makes me think again. If a mini pro is required with 32 GB RAM, it is not cheap at all.

Click to expand...

My 2024 MacBook Air flies with 24GB RAM. Adobe minimum 8GB and recommends 16GB or more for pretty much everything else.

Lr


LrC


Premiere Pro

Peace_VN said:

well... a similar pc will be nearly the same price tag, maybe a bit less if I need more internal SSD but I believe the external NAS or HDD system is better.

I found this online:

It looks like the mini still does the job with video editing, just slower when rendering.

Click to expand...

Peace_VN said:

it makes me think again. If a mini pro is required with 32 GB RAM, it is not cheap at all.

well... a similar pc will be nearly the same price tag, maybe a bit less if I need more internal SSD but I believe the external NAS or HDD system is better.

Click to expand...

Most mini PC models do not have discrete GPU, but here is one that does:

HP Omnidesk (RTX 3050)

Windows makes me say "yuck" but if saving money is important, it costs less than Mac Mini with similar memory and storage. Higher electricity costs might cancel this out though.

For your intended use cases, you definitely don't want a PC without discrete GPU.

Dear all

I found this video on youtube:


based on the benchmark project in Davicine,

To render the project with M4 mini - 880 s

A 880 - M4 Mini (10CPU 10GPU) - 19.1 Studio

which is slower than RTX 3080 laptop (a A 709 - i9-11980HK (Laptop) RTX 3080)

and to get an M4 pro or max - it costs a lot.

for the performance, I notice the i7-14700K + RTX 4090 can do well. of course, different machine is differently built (SSD etc.) but yes... to go to Mac is not cheap at all and the mac mini sound good in the advertising but i belive not that good

Peace_VN said:

Dear all

I found this video on youtube:

based on the benchmark project in Davicine,

To render the project with M4 mini - 880 s

A 880 - M4 Mini (10CPU 10GPU) - 19.1 Studio

which is slower than RTX 3080 laptop (a A 709 - i9-11980HK (Laptop) RTX 3080)

and to get an M4 pro or max - it costs a lot.

for the performance, I notice the i7-14700K + RTX 4090 can do well. of course, different machine is differently built (SSD etc.) but yes... to go to Mac is not cheap at all and the mac mini sound good in the advertising but i belive not that good

Click to expand...

Apologies, I've only skimmed the thread, is there a link for this RTX3080 laptop?

Peace_VN said:

Dear all

I found this video on youtube:

based on the benchmark project in Davicine,

To render the project with M4 mini - 880 s

A 880 - M4 Mini (10CPU 10GPU) - 19.1 Studio

which is slower than RTX 3080 laptop (a A 709 - i9-11980HK (Laptop) RTX 3080)

and to get an M4 pro or max - it costs a lot.

for the performance, I notice the i7-14700K + RTX 4090 can do well. of course, different machine is differently built (SSD etc.) but yes... to go to Mac is not cheap at all and the mac mini sound good in the advertising but i belive not that good

http://www.pureeye.art
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pureeye/
https://www.instagram.com/pure.eye.photography

Click to expand...

My final thought - your profile lists a $5000 Z9 and your described usage includes some pretty intensive processing needs. Presumably , you have the means and the need for something beyond “cheap”. Buy what you want of course. I view the processing part of the image train (computer hardware, software, backup/archive, etc) as an equal to the camera and lens. Not advocating spending money foolishly but under buying for a demonstrated need is not good either. IMHO, you need more than 16GB if you’re going Apple silicon.



Nick

Based my experience with various mac models and image processing, I would suggest an M4 Pro with 24GB as a sweet spot for best bang for buck, for your needs. More than this is gravy.

I am a bit disappointed in my M4 Machine, wish I got M4 Pro to replace my M1 Pro. I have also found that 16GB is often over-taxed, whereas 32GB is seldom fully utilized.

As always, some will say more of everything is better, but there are diminishing returns, as well as a diminishing wallet.

I don’t know about PCs, very pleased to have moved away from them, other than for work, about 10 years ago. Although more expensive initially, I have found Macs to be more cost-effective (which is not the same as less expensive) in the long run.

Peace_VN said:

how is it in real life? using intensively with

Photoshop

Premier

DaVinci Resolve!

(I started to edit the 8k videos from the z9 and my old laptop is not good for this).

Click to expand...

Since you are editing 8k videos I say that if you choose a Mac then get an M4 Max 16/40/16 Studio, 36gb, 1tb SSD as a minimum.

stevevp said:

Peace_VN said:

Dear all

I found this video on youtube:

based on the benchmark project in Davicine,

To render the project with M4 mini - 880 s

A 880 - M4 Mini (10CPU 10GPU) - 19.1 Studio

which is slower than RTX 3080 laptop (a A 709 - i9-11980HK (Laptop) RTX 3080)

and to get an M4 pro or max - it costs a lot.

for the performance, I notice the i7-14700K + RTX 4090 can do well. of course, different machine is differently built (SSD etc.) but yes... to go to Mac is not cheap at all and the mac mini sound good in the advertising but i belive not that good

Click to expand...

Apologies, I've only skimmed the thread, is there a link for this RTX3080 laptop?

Click to expand...

It is from a user review on YouTube

i would love to know as well

Peace_VN said:

stevevp said:

Peace_VN said:

Dear all

I found this video on youtube:

based on the benchmark project in Davicine,

To render the project with M4 mini - 880 s

A 880 - M4 Mini (10CPU 10GPU) - 19.1 Studio

which is slower than RTX 3080 laptop (a A 709 - i9-11980HK (Laptop) RTX 3080)

and to get an M4 pro or max - it costs a lot.

for the performance, I notice the i7-14700K + RTX 4090 can do well. of course, different machine is differently built (SSD etc.) but yes... to go to Mac is not cheap at all and the mac mini sound good in the advertising but i belive not that good

Click to expand...

Apologies, I've only skimmed the thread, is there a link for this RTX3080 laptop?

Click to expand...

It is from a user review on YouTube

i would love to know as well

Click to expand...

Maybe a Lenovo. Looking at their website it's easy to spec a laptop to megabucks!

If doing 8k video skip the mini entirely. You won't be happy. You will need a studio for sure. The next thing is MacOS good for you? Could you use Windows? if so, you can build or buy a substantially more powerful system for less than the price of the Mac.

But it comes down to software. Switching OS's either way is hard. I know because I have tried numerous times to goto Apple, Linux etc. Only to come back to windows because I know how it works for me.

Good discussion!

My tale of whoa:

I teach LrC and work on a lot of computers remotely. I've noticed that LrC runs nicely on old Macs with older Xenon and new M series processors.

Thinking it would be a reasonably priced upgrade, I bought a Mac mini M4 for $500 USD. I enjoyed how quick it was, but felt it was nuts to be switching cables and switches back and forth, concerned 16 gb RAM isn't enough and would have to pay 2x for 32 GB RAM, since I generally prefer PC for the price, customizable, and that I've using them since the mid 1980's.

I returned the Mac thinking for about the same price, I could upgrade my Intel 9700, 3060 ti, 32 GB RAM, and NVMe os and catalog drives, which I did. I assembled an AMD 9700 (irony!) same GPU, Asus x870 mobo and 48 GB RAM.

I was surprised when my old OS booted up with the new hardware. Even my Nikon firewire scanner running Nikon Scan worked. I was cooking!

Still I wanted to try starting out fresh and installed Win 11 Pro with little more than LrC installed. I was hoping to be wowed, but I wasn't. For spending $650 and cutting my hands on the oversized Noctua head sink, I wanted to be wowed, but feel that LrC runs about the same as on the Intel 9700--lagging. Does LrC just not run well on a PC?

In desperation, I'm creating a new LrC and importing as I type, but don't think that'll make much difference.

Any thoughts? Time for a Mac or a mainframe?