$2500ish icl lightweight system

thermophile · May 30, 2025

I used to be an avid hobby photographer with a few paying gigs (mostly sports back in film era). Then life took me in a different direction. I now have time and some cash to get back into photography beyond cellphone pics of the kids.

What i currently have:

Pentax k20d with assortment of lenses (favorite walking around sigma 18-50 f2.8)

Lumix zs100

I still enjoy shooting the k20d but its so heavy that I don't take it with me anywhere that isn't a dedicated photo trip. The Lumix is nice and easy point and shoot with decent pics but I miss lenses, esp for long telephoto (the lumix is pretty soft when zoomed all the way in on a bird)

What i want:

$2500ish budget camera and couple of lenses (unless there's something light weight that uses k mount that i haven't found)

I will be shooting lots of kids action, landscapes, bug/flower macro, and zoom in to catch a distant kid or bird.

I'd like something light enough that I'm willing to hike/walk around town with it routinely.

I'll occasionally edit photos but need decent jpeg out of the camera. When printing, i rarely go bigger than 8x10 though that often involves cropping so maybe no bigger that 16x20

Completely open to used.

ahaslett · May 30, 2025

With such small prints, what makes you want an FF body?

I have an A7CR with a 20-70/4 G pretty much glued to it, although I have multiple FE lenses.

You could put together a very nice MFT system with a lot of jpeg oriented features around an OM3. Lenses would depend on what you mean by lightweight and how far you want your budget to stretch.

A

G1Houston · May 30, 2025

thermophile said:
$2500ish budget camera and couple of lenses (unless there's something light weight that uses k mount that i haven't found)

I too would recommend the m4/3 system. The image quality is more than enough and the kits, especially the lens, is much smaller. If you worry about shallow-depth-of-field look or low light photography, you can always spend more to get their still smaller f1.2 lens.

Start with the EM10 MK IV (OM) or G100D (Panasonic) camera, and get a few tiny and wonder prime lens. The OM Pro series and Leica-Panasonic lens are particularly of very high quality.

ahaslett · May 30, 2025

G1Houston said:
thermophile said:

$2500ish budget camera and couple of lenses (unless there's something light weight that uses k mount that i haven't found)

Click to expand...

I too would recommend the m4/3 system. The image quality is more than enough and the kits, especially the lens, is much smaller. If you worry about shallow-depth-of-field look or low light photography, you can always spend more to get their still smaller f1.2 lens.

Start with the EM10 MK IV (OM) or G100D (Panasonic) camera, and get a few tiny and wonder prime lens. The OM Pro series and Leica-Panasonic lens are particularly of very high quality.

Might as well get an OM3 + 12-45/4 Pro kit, and used 40-150/4 and 60mm macro. If subject isolation matters, then one of the f1.4 primes will be lighter and cheaper than an f1.2 by some way. Might as well get an FF f1.8-2 prime as an MFT f1.2 one.

A used OM 17/1.2 is £600 and 390g. A used Sigma 35/2 DG DN is £510, scarily more than mine cost new a couple of years ago. The Sigma in E mount is 325g, but is built like a tank.

The Panasonic 25mm f1.4 is my favourite.

Andrew

thermophile · May 30, 2025

Not at all sure i want ff. I do want lenses.

How's low light action focus/usability compare between mft (om3/5) vs apc (sony a6700) for not crazy expensive lenses? By action, children running maybe wildlife. but mostly children.

thermophile · May 30, 2025

ahaslett said:
Might as well get an FF f1.8-2 prime as an MFT f1.2 one.

I didn't think you could use ff lenses on mft?

ahaslett said:
A used OM 17/1.2 is £600 and 390g. A used Sigma 35/2 DG DN is £510, scarily more than mine cost new a couple of years ago. The Sigma in E mount is 325g, but is built like a tank.

The Panasonic 25mm f1.4 is my favourite.

Do the OM use E mount or do they have a specific OM mount?

dlevitt · May 30, 2025

thermophile said:
thermophile said:

Might as well get an FF f1.8-2 prime as an MFT f1.2 one.

Click to expand...

I didn't think you could use ff lenses on mft?

thermophile said:

A used OM 17/1.2 is £600 and 390g. A used Sigma 35/2 DG DN is £510, scarily more than mine cost new a couple of years ago. The Sigma in E mount is 325g, but is built like a tank.

The Panasonic 25mm f1.4 is my favourite.

Click to expand...

Do the OM use E mount or do they have a specific OM mount?

Micro four thirds mount for mirrorless bodies are the native lenses (Olympus / OM system; Panasonic, Leica branded Panasonic, Sigma)

ahaslett · May 31, 2025

thermophile said:
Not at all sure i want ff. I do want lenses.

How's low light action focus/usability compare between mft (om3/5) vs apc (sony a6700) for not crazy expensive lenses? By action, children running maybe wildlife. but mostly children.

Small sensors have a low light AF advantage because the limits of AF depend on exposure. The Quad Bayer PDAF array in the OM1/OM3 seems to have a further advantage, at least my OM1 focusses in lower light than my A7CR at the same f-stop.

I don’t have an A6700 but human subject detection for the A7CR seems similar to the OM1 mk ii/OM3. No doubt there are differences that would need long experience of both to discover.

The obvious one is that Sony subject detection is integrated, so you can switch from tracking a subject to an object just by choosing which you point to when you lock focus. With the OM3, you have to switch from subject detection to tracking, which you can configure to do easily.

The other differences between the A6700 and MFT is a much bigger choice of lenses in MFT. That doesn’t matter if the lenses you want are available in E-mount. There are some Sony G APSC lenses.

Andrew

ahaslett · May 31, 2025

thermophile said:
thermophile said:

Might as well get an FF f1.8-2 prime as an MFT f1.2 one.

Click to expand...

I didn't think you could use ff lenses on mft?

I have MFT and FE. If you want shallow depth of field, then buying an FF system typically makes that lighter and cheaper for the same degree of subject separation in normal focal length range.

thermophile said:
thermophile said:

A used OM 17/1.2 is £600 and 390g. A used Sigma 35/2 DG DN is £510, scarily more than mine cost new a couple of years ago. The Sigma in E mount is 325g, but is built like a tank.

The Panasonic 25mm f1.4 is my favourite.

Click to expand...

Do the OM use E mount or do they have a specific OM mount?

OM system is Micro Four Thirds mount.

Andrew

thermophile · May 31, 2025

Good to hear about the low light focus.

Since I've never used any subject tracking, i don't know how to evaluate that. I've generally been a "lock focus on the center of the frame then move the camera to frame the shot" kind of person.

So I'm tempted to get an older (om1 miii $900) body and spend the extra on lenses-it looks like the sensors/processors are the same. are the version updates worth the extra $500 for the om5 body?

ahaslett · May 31, 2025

thermophile said:
Good to hear about the low light focus.

Since I've never used any subject tracking, i don't know how to evaluate that. I've generally been a "lock focus on the center of the frame then move the camera to frame the shot" kind of person.

So I'm tempted to get an older (om1 miii $900) body and spend the extra on lenses-it looks like the sensors/processors are the same. are the version updates worth the extra $500 for the om5 body?

If it was my only MFT body, I’d get an Olympus EM1.3 in preference to an OM5. I wanted the smallest fully functional stills-oriented MFT body and also the 12-45/4. As a kit on discount from an authorised dealer with added OM code and cashback, they were £950.

A used EM1.3 from mpb is currently £450. I’d spend the money on lenses too.

Should be able to get at least 2 excellent ones for that, and the EM1.3 can take bigger lenses easily. You can handle them on the OM5/EM5.3, but I’d rather not.

OM5 with Laowa 10/2 MF lens and OM1 with the mighty 300/4.

The EM1.3 is a bit smaller than the OM1.

I’m afraid there is a lot of choice in the MFT lens catalogue, lots of used gear at affordable prices, and some lenses are up to mk iii with anything between a different logo or a complete redesign between the versions.

You can get good advice on the MFT forum, if that’s the way you decide to go.

I used to focus and recompose, but subject detection, decent tracking and burst shooting have me in CAF most of the time. Landscapes is MF, apart from run and gun. You can see the Laowa is MF in any case. Auto-magnify with peaking makes MF so much easier.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

thermophile · May 31, 2025

Do you handhold the 300/f4 or is that a tripod only situation?

I have a manual 400 that I use on the k20d for moon/solar pics and bird id so im sure I'll be shocked by mft 300

ahaslett · May 31, 2025

thermophile said:
Do you handhold the 300/f4 or is that a tripod only situation?

I have a manual 400 that I use on the k20d for moon/solar pics and bird id so im sure I'll be shocked by mft 300

It’s a little under 1.5kg - I handhold it. I could have spent rather a lot less and used a 200-600 G on my 61Mpix Sony bodies, but that weighs over 2kg and I decided it was too much. If spending a lot of time waiting for something to appear, I’d probably use a monopod.

Dual IS with the 300/4 on an OM1 is like magic for holding the lens on target.

Andrew

UsherFellig · May 31, 2025

The new Nikon Z50ii has Expeed 7 technology with superb AF and processing. The camera and two super-excellent, compact, punch-above-their-weight stabilised VR zooms are currently priced at around $1300 for the bundle. The standard zoom (16-5 VR aka 24-70 equivalent) is a marvel of a small pancake for hiking or walking around, while the telephoto may be all the reach you ever need at 50-250 VR (70-375 equivalent). An available stabilized wide angle zoom has drawn rave reviews.

For a small fast prime for lowlight there is an f1.7 Z DX 23mm (35mm equivalent), though I myself prefer a "normal" prime and would be more interested in the Viltrox Air for Nikon Z DX 35mm f1.7 (50mm equiv.).

Nikon also offers a couple of other low-priced compact and lightweight primes that work very well on DX, a 28mm f2.8 (around 43mm equiv. on APSC), and a 40mm f2 (a "Nifty Sixty" equiv. on APSC). There is a pricier but very nice super-small pancake 26mm f2.8 that is a "Nifty Forty) on DX.

For macro, Nikon makes a lightweight, compact 50mm f2.8 MC FF lens that would go great on the Z50ii for macro as well as serving on APSC as a 70mm equivalent short tele or portrait prime.

Nikon APSC DX IQ and lowlight performance is very nice indeed, and while color rendering preferences are subjective, Nikon jpeg colors are some of the best out there. Clear, saturated jewel tones are the order of the day.

Ruedon · May 31, 2025

I had a Nikon D90 that was released around the same time as your K20d in 2008. At that time a full frame camera was out of reach and comparably heavy. This changed completely with mirrorless and shorter flange distances of the lens mounts. Well, the "mirrorless" rangefinder Leica M system had always been small, but also very expensive. Today all major brands offer mirrorless full frame cameras that are becoming ever more main stream, pushing APS-C to a low cost beginner segment and, if you ask me, M43 into end of life.

The Sony A7CII is very popular due to its rangefinder like design, featuring a small EVF. Alternatively, the Nikon Z5II just came out with a regular sized EVF on top of the body. You might also have a look at the ultimately small Panasonic S9 that omits a viewfinder completely, in favour of its display.

You find a broad range of lenses for full frame cameras, like Panasonic 20-60/3.5-5.6 or Nikon 24-70/4 -- equivalent to 16-47/2.8 on APS-C, i.e. your 18-50/2.8. An aperture of f/4 for a full frame standard zoom leaves a lot of room for fast primes, like the tiny and inexpensive Nikon 40mm f/2. Perfect for Kids action, along with new subject and eye detecting AF modes.

Open to used? Well. the Sony and the Nikon are both gen II, whereas gen I is still around. You are lacking responsiveness and AF performance and thus must expect more headache and less keepers for Kids action. Your decision.

Ruedon · May 31, 2025

UsherFellig said:
The new Nikon Z50ii has Expeed 7 technology with superb AF and processing. The camera and two super-excellent, compact, punch-above-their-weight stabilised VR zooms are currently priced at around $1300 for the bundle. The standard zoom (16-5 VR aka 24-70 equivalent) is a marvel of a small pancake for hiking or walking around, while the telephoto may be all the reach you ever need at 50-250 VR (70-375 equivalent). An available stabilized wide angle zoom has drawn rave reviews.

$1300 for "$2500ish"?

Unfortunately Nikon has a big gap between $900 APS-C Z50II and $1700 full frame Z5II. Still I think that the latter matches better the OPs budget -- and expectations.

UsherFellig said:
...

Nikon also offers a couple of other low-priced compact and lightweight primes that work very well on DX, a 28mm f2.8 (around 43mm equiv. on APSC), and a 40mm f2 (a "Nifty Sixty" equiv. on APSC). There is a pricier but very nice super-small pancake 26mm f2.8 that is a "Nifty Forty) on DX.

For macro, Nikon makes a lightweight, compact 50mm f2.8 MC FF lens that would go great on the Z50ii for macro as well as serving on APSC as a 70mm equivalent short tele or portrait prime.

All very good lenses on a Z5II, just no "equiv." anymore ...

UsherFellig said:
Nikon APSC DX IQ and lowlight performance is very nice indeed, and while color rendering preferences are subjective, Nikon jpeg colors are some of the best out there. Clear, saturated jewel tones are the order of the day.

Also add the new emphasis on picture controls for customised jpeg results that got a dedicated button on Z5II (and Z50II).

That's actually an advantage of Nikon over e.g. Sony: you get in camera RAW processing. For years I was shooting JPEG+RAW and only used the JPEGs. In rare cases I re-generated a JPEG in camera, e.g. for different Active D-Lighting or for a crop. Add different picture control, like monochrome.

Only recently, since I'm publishing results on the web page of a sports club, I changed to RAW only and use a laptop along with Nikon provided NX Studio software to generate JPEGs -- very similar to in camera RAW processing, just more convenient with keyboard, mouse and large monitor.

UsherFellig · May 31, 2025

Ruedon said:
UsherFellig said:

The new Nikon Z50ii has Expeed 7 technology with superb AF and processing. The camera and two super-excellent, compact, punch-above-their-weight stabilised VR zooms are currently priced at around $1300 for the bundle. The standard zoom (16-5 VR aka 24-70 equivalent) is a marvel of a small pancake for hiking or walking around, while the telephoto may be all the reach you ever need at 50-250 VR (70-375 equivalent). An available stabilized wide angle zoom has drawn rave reviews.

Click to expand...

$1300 for "$2500ish"?

Ruedon said:

Why, goodness, yes. The original request was for suggestions as to a light setup. It also mentioned macro. My suggestions did not include only the body + 2 zoom bundle. The point was that the bundle is light, excellent IQ, and excellent value allowing a choice of adding other light lenses within the stated budget. Such as a small faster prime. Or the wide zoom. Or the lightweight Z macro lens. Perhaps you missed what was written.

.

Nikon also offers a couple of other low-priced compact and lightweight primes that work very well on DX, a 28mm f2.8 (around 43mm equiv. on APSC), and a 40mm f2 (a "Nifty Sixty" equiv. on APSC). There is a pricier but very nice super-small pancake 26mm f2.8 that is a "Nifty Forty) on DX.

For macro, Nikon makes a lightweight, compact 50mm f2.8 MC FF lens that would go great on the Z50ii for macro as well as serving on APSC as a 70mm equivalent short tele or portrait prime.

Click to expand...

thermophile · Jun 1, 2025

UsherFellig said:
UsherFellig said:

$1300 for "$2500ish"?

UsherFellig said:

Why, goodness, yes. The original request was for suggestions as to a light setup. It also mentioned macro. My suggestions did not include only the body + 2 zoom bundle. The point was that the bundle is light, excellent IQ, and excellent value allowing a choice of adding other light lenses within the stated budget. Such as a small faster prime. Or the wide zoom. Or the lightweight Z macro lens. Perhaps you missed what was written.

.

Nikon also offers a couple of other low-priced compact and lightweight primes that work very well on DX, a 28mm f2.8 (around 43mm equiv. on APSC), and a 40mm f2 (a "Nifty Sixty" equiv. on APSC). There is a pricier but very nice super-small pancake 26mm f2.8 that is a "Nifty Forty) on DX.

For macro, Nikon makes a lightweight, compact 50mm f2.8 MC FF lens that would go great on the Z50ii for macro as well as serving on APSC as a 70mm equivalent short tele or portrait prime.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ha i mentioned kids, so of course always welcome the idea of spending less to get the results I'm looking for.

I think i need to find a place to get hands on some of these models. Fortunately still have a local camera shop that advertised both new and used, just missed their early close Saturday.

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$2500ish icl lightweight system

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