What are full-framers missing by not using M4/3

Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The Sony 28-60/4-5.6 kit lens is 167g and around £190 dekitted with dealer warranty. It has excellent IQ but the build is rather lightweight.

I guess on my A7CR it would be equivalent to 14-45/2-4.5, allowing for an APSC crop to 26Mpix at the tele end. I still prefer the 12-45/4 because it can mount on an OM5 or EP7, or a GM1 in good light, although that would look a bit silly. The 28-60mm mount is sealed but that’s it.

The 20-70/4 G is a more serious and heavier lens and that is weather sealed, as of course is the A7CR. To match that, you would need to adapt a 14-35/2 SWD, which at its lowest used price would have cost about the same as I paid for the 20-70mm.

My OM5 + 12-45/4 kit cost me £950.

I don’t see generic advantages of MFT over FE, just different choices from two systems with a lot of lens and body options. I guess L mount has more bodies but fewer lenses.

Andrew
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.

The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop. The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.

This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.
Yeah I said "insane" to mean "senseless", sorry for being unclear.
This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
There's really no modern full-frame camera that doesn't have much higher autofocus sensitivity than any MFT camera, so there's no way for f/5.6 on full-frame to be worse than f/4 on MFT.
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.
Yeah I said "insane" to mean "senseless", sorry for being unclear.
This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
There's really no modern full-frame camera that doesn't have much higher autofocus sensitivity than any MFT camera, so there's no way for f/5.6 on full-frame to be worse than f/4 on MFT.
The OM1 mk ii is -8EV at f1.2, the A7CR is -4EV at f2…

A
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.
Yeah I said "insane" to mean "senseless", sorry for being unclear.
This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
There's really no modern full-frame camera that doesn't have much higher autofocus sensitivity than any MFT camera, so there's no way for f/5.6 on full-frame to be worse than f/4 on MFT.
The OM1 mk ii is -8EV at f1.2, the A7CR is -4EV at f2…

A
Compare them at the SAME f number, and preferably also at higher numbers because that's where it matters. (f5.6 vs f4)
 
Last edited:
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.
Yeah I said "insane" to mean "senseless", sorry for being unclear.
This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
There's really no modern full-frame camera that doesn't have much higher autofocus sensitivity than any MFT camera, so there's no way for f/5.6 on full-frame to be worse than f/4 on MFT.
The OM1 mk ii is -8EV at f1.2, the A7CR is -4EV at f2…

A
Compare them at the SAME f number, and preferably also at higher numbers because that's where it matters. (f5.6 vs f4)
Those are the OEM specs. I have tested my 40-150/2.8 at 150/2.8 on an OM1 against a 100-400 GM at 300/5.6 on an A7Riv at night. Those are equivalent settings and the OM1 easily beats the A7Riv. Both lenses are wide open.

Why would you compare at the same f-number? The FF lens would be a lot bigger than the MFT one.

Andrew
 
Not much but if you use zooms on the street they have nothing that can match the size of zooms like the 12-45 f4 pro. They also do not currently have the weather protection that something like the OM-1 has which is mad when you think cameras are expensive and are used outside much of the time.
With the full-frame Lumix 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, which weighs 350g (96g more), you can get wider FOV and much higher resolution at 60mm than you get at 45mm with an OM-1, if you use one of the high resolution L-mount full-frame cameras. And of course significantly brighter image. And it's also weather-resistant. I'm sure there are other lightweight full-frame lenses, maybe closer to the 254g of the 12-45 f4.
The 12-45 is significantly smaller and lighter. Especially when you start looking at the high res L-mount bodies. Although F4 is on the edge of usable AF indoors, F5.6 is even worse. The better comparison would be the Lumix 24-105/4 which is massive and soft by comparison.
f/5.6 on full-frame is significantly brighter than f/4 on MFT. And I guess a 96g difference doesn't fit my definition of "significant". 20mm vs 24mm(equivalent) is significant, and so is the resolution difference. And 24-105/4 is absolutely not a "better comparison", it's a senseless comparison and obviously an overkill choice.
No, it's not "brighter". It is physically larger allowing more photons in exchange for less depth. For autofocus F5.6 is worse than F4 every day, all day.
Full-frame cameras have better autofocus sensitivity and f/5.6 on full-frame is not worse than f/4 on MFT.
The 38% increase in weight is real. The 4mm wider FOV is nice but the M43 lens has 90mm on the long end vs 60mm which is 1.5 crop.
The full-frame cameras have 61mp, you get much higher resolution. Somehow people who are stuck with their "equivalence" notions never mention that.
The 24-105mm F4 zoom is used the same way as the OM 12-45mm F4 except the OM is a tiny fraction of the size. They are both constant aperture F4 zooms covering nearly identical FoV's.
24-105mm f4 is super overkill, it's NOT NEEDED, it's OVERKILL, but people stuck with insane "equivalence" comparisons pretend that it's not overkill.
Actually people who use equivalence as a tool would count that as 12-53/2, which would be a pretty big MFT lens. For sure it’s nothing like equivalent to 12-45/4.
Yeah I said "insane" to mean "senseless", sorry for being unclear.
This thing about AF is complicated because it depends on the body specifics. Smaller sensors do have an advantage but you have to be in low light with modern mirrorless cameras for it to matter.

Andrew
There's really no modern full-frame camera that doesn't have much higher autofocus sensitivity than any MFT camera, so there's no way for f/5.6 on full-frame to be worse than f/4 on MFT.
The OM1 mk ii is -8EV at f1.2, the A7CR is -4EV at f2…

A
Compare them at the SAME f number, and preferably also at higher numbers because that's where it matters. (f5.6 vs f4)
Those are the OEM specs. I have tested my 40-150/2.8 at 150/2.8 on an OM1 against a 100-400 GM at 300/5.6 on an A7Riv at night. Those are equivalent settings and the OM1 easily beats the A7Riv. Both lenses are wide open.

Why would you compare at the same f-number? The FF lens would be a lot bigger than the MFT one.

Andrew
I meant in order to see that they're the same at the same f number, and also that at f/5.6 the full-frame has much better sensitivity than MFT does at f/5.6. And obviously comparison in low light, not abundant light, is the most important, because that's when AF really gets problematic.
 
Last edited:
I think there could be a shift in what FF users may be missing by not using m43, when FF high resolution sensors get cheaper. When you can buy a 44-60+ FF megapixel camera for $1500-$2000 from each FF manufacturer, then it will at least be tempting to use a FF camera and say a 100-400 or other smaller telephoto lens to reach wildlife and let cropping latitude take care of the need to get closer.
 
MFT lenses, on average, are FAR more expensive than any other system up to full-frame. I don't know what goes on in medium format, and I probably don't wanna know.

You can get a Nikon Z8, which is indeed QUITE expensive, but you won't have to update the "body" for many years, the lenses are the real expense. You can get lenses that have the SAME focal length and aperture specs as the MFT lenses, usually for less. You can also get lenses with the same focal length but less bright, if you want to save a LOT of money, get a significantly lighter lens, and still get similar or better signal to noise ratio than MFT (because it's full-frame). AND you'll still get higher resolution than OM-1 when you crop to the same field of view, because it has a 45mp sensor. You get "only" 20 frames per second with full auto exposure and auto focus, while with OM-1 II you get more, so if that's very important to you (I can't imagine 20 FPS being too slow...) then OM-1 II indeed wins. If you want to get more than TWICE the resolution, then indeed you have to buy lenses with twice the focal length. But that's an entirely different comparison and definitely not "apples to apples".

MFT is VERY expensive, PERIOD. I would NEVER recommend anyone to get into MFT if cost saving is very important to them. They could end up paying a WHOLE lot more than they'd pay with APS-C or Full-Frame systems. I just really like some of the lenses and cameras in MFT, and the IBIS, and especially my darling E-M1X. Don't delude yourself, you're NOT saving money on lenses.
This is true. FF lenses are often way cheaper. Best example is 150-600 Sigma.

But Olympus marketing will trick people into comparing the price and specs of the 300/4 to a 600/4. And then say how the 300/4 is so small and light compared to the 600/4. It's almost scammy, how ridiculous the comparisons are.

To put into perspective:

Olympus 300/4 Pro = $3000USD
Nikon 300/4 PF = $2000USD
Olympus 300/4 Pro = 1475g
Nikon 300/4 PF = 755g

Sony 300/2.8 is a whole stop brighter, bigger front element, sharper, and 5 grams lighter than the 300/4. M43 lens makers have been so lazy in their lens designs. Competitors are making faster, sharper and brighter lenses that are lighter. The whole format is held back by the greed of these manufactures to prey on ignorant customers and take advantage of false marketing to compare to way bigger lenses. With the ridiculous comparisons, they can claim that theirs are light and small, and then ask an unbelievable price tag on them. Then they spend nothing on R&D to actually improve their products. Nothing to make faster, lighter and sharper glass. Just spending on marketing.

Common error in thinking - putting a 300/4 onto a smaller sensor somehow turns the lens into a 600/4 - it doesn't. You can crop 2x on a high MP FF body to get the same fake "600/4". You can put the same, lighter, smaller, cheaper same spec'd FF lens onto an M43 body with an adapter to get that "2x".
 
Last edited:
Yeah I've really had it with "equivalence" talk where people don't take into account the inherent resolution advantage of the bigger sensor systems. The reality is that it's possible to get less rolling shutter and better burst shooting performance with some MFT cameras compared to similar-priced or even significantly higher priced full-frame cameras. The top of the line full-frame cameras kind of follow the "equivalence factor" in being much more expensive. Other than that, MFT lags behind with the lenses in terms of technology and price, and it does NOT offer more flexible solutions when taking into account the huge resolution difference. When not taking the resolution differences into account, it's possible to pretend all kinds of nonsense. MFT does not have a general advantage with the lenses and most probably never will. And all that said, research and development of APS-C and Full-Frame lenses is also nothing nowadays compared to that of smartphone lenses, where very serious R&D results in absolutely astounding things. Nothing anywhere near this level of development in any of the ILC systems. Light years behind. Companies like OM System and Panasonic are not gonna be able to survive in the camera business for much longer if they don't start doing real R&D.
 
Last edited:
There’s been arguments by full frame fans that we are missing something by not shooting full frame. But what are full framers missing out on by not shooting micro 4/3? What are the things you can’t get except through micro 4/3?

first? A Pro macro lens with autofocus and ability to focus bracket while being over 2:1 magnification and ability to use with a teleconverter and get 4:1 magnification. The full framer will argue that they have the MPE-65 and Laowa lenses that can get 5:1 - however no auto focus and no ability to focus bracket while setting the camera down and tapping the screen to do a stack of 150+ images at 4:1 such as these shots, all over 4:1 and all over 150 images stacked…

think this was was from 2019…

look around. 90% of the amazing bug macro shots you’ll see online aren’t from full frame - they are using the Olympus/OM System macro gear which is unmatched for what it can do in the field without need of an automated rail.

what are some other things Micro 4/3 gives that you cannot get anywhere else? Let’s list them for those interested!
As much as it pains me to cut out your excellent and original macro work I do tend to agree that there do seem to be advantages to it. Having a 180mm equivalent x2 macro with AF for rapid focus stacking is definitely unique.

Personally I'm a landscape shooter and wide angle primes end up not being THAT big and expensive so FF does fit my needs well, besides resolution/IQ it tends to be DOF control which I use most, looking to use it at large focusing distances to do things liek isolate trees in woodland which only FF(and above) can provide for wide angle lenses.

Honestly I have considered getting into more serious macro shooting and indeed wildlife shooting and if I did then I may actually consider m43. Owning a Nikon 300mm F/2.8 lens(relatively old from the turn of the millennium bought relatively cheap)definately does show me that I'm not going to take something of that size out very often.

In my experience as well I tend to see that print sales of Macro and Wildlife work tend to be smaller than Landscape. The latter I do end up selling 30-40 inch wide prints reasonably regularly but those areas it seems like the market is more focused on A3ish sizes and below were m43 is going to be giving you more than enough quality for 300dpi prints plus I suspect if people did want to go large they maybe not as demanding of extreme resolution, more something impactful viewed from a distance rather than something you want to eyeball elements close up(the "there's my house" factor).
 
Last edited:
I used to really enjoy this forum, but it has become a hitjob on Micro Four Thirds of late, rather than a place to share insights and images with fellow MFT users. I find MFT absolutely BRILLIANT... and thoroughly enjoy using the system. It is incredibly well served with unbelievably inexpensive and high quality optics in the second hand market, and I can even photo stack with any lens given the innovative firmware contrived by MFT enthusiasts from the past. I am grateful for the community, past and present who continue to imbue this tremendously successful lightweight, weather-sealed system that suits my outdoor pursuit needs perfectly. For those who seek to denigrate the system, why not just sell up and move to another forum where your 'special needs' are more adequately serviced?

...

Wonderful system, great optics and used to have a great community forum.
 
My take on this is less about imaging capability differences, and more about practicality around "the best camera is the one you have with you".

For me, the OM-3 exemplifies this since I wanted a camera I felt I could take anywhere, but didn't really come with any compromises in terms of the capabilities I already had with the OM-1 Mark II.

I know that the OM-3 may still be a bit "too much" for some people, but there's no end to examples of compact cameras (and more importantly, lenses) that make it easy to have a "real camera" with you at all times.

There are certainly some examples of relatively compact bodies such as the Nikon Zf, but the range of compact lenses to go with it is much more limited.
not the best example, considering Sony offers a 60MP body with their a7CR that is smaller than OM3 (And Nikon Zf)
Not only is that camera 1.5X the price of the OM3, it can't shoot like the OM3. In fact, the smallest stacked sensor camera Sony makes is 65% larger and still only manages 20fps.
No, that's not correct. The smallest stacked-sensor cameras Sony makes or has made are the RX100 IV, V, Va, VI, and VII.
There are camera phones with stacked sensors too. None of that is relevant in a conversation about M43 and FF in a MILC forum.
The topic is "What are full-framers missing by not using M4/3" and the follow-up in the original post includes "what are some other things Micro 4/3 gives that you cannot get anywhere else? Let’s list them for those interested!" One reply is a smaller camera with strong capabilities like a stacked sensor (OM-3). The claim was that no stacked-sensor Sony is anywhere near as small as an OM-3. That claim is incorrect. But ...
A camera phone is not an ILC. An RX p&s is not an ILC. The only Sony that offers a stacked sensor and interchangeable lens mount like the OM-3 costs 2.5X the price and weighs 65% more.
A market so small it was abandoned by Sony.
But of course what a putative GM5 II or GM7 brings is the ability to say, 'I'm going out in the evening, I'll swap out the small standard zoom for a 20mm f/1.7,' or something like that.
The RX has a wobbly sh*t lens and costs $1700. No wonder Sony killed the line. Small cameras like the GM's didn't sell in sufficient numbers to be successful.
I've never used an RX100 VI or VII, but my experience with my RX100 IV (same lens as the III, V, and Va) is similar to what DPReview reported:
The RX100 IV uses the same lens as the RX100 III ...

The key thing is that the performance is really impressive. Unlike the zoom on Canon's PowerShot G7 X, which found only sharpens up at the long end of the zoom, the Sony's more modest range allows it to be at least acceptably sharp regardless of which focal length or aperture you use.
"Acceptably sharp" for a point and shoot. Rousing endorsement! Long live the wobble lens.
Anyway, back to the space in the market for MFT: the post above featured an OM-3 with a 25mm f/1.8, equivalent to a 50mm f/3.6. I'm pretty sure the RX100 IV has a maximum aperture at equivalent of 50mm of f/2.8, or equivalent to f/7.7. So in this particular comparison, MFT gives you a bit over two stops more light-gathering. IMO that's substantial.
Most importantly, the OM-3 is compatible with ~300 native lens options to suit the user's interest.
And IMO if there were a modern, updated counterpart to the GM5, then that could be an answer to "What are full-framers missing by not using M4/3".
I hear what you're saying but that ship has sailed. Camera's that small don't sell.
 
I am not interested in macrophotography (lovely images and well done nevertheless) for instance so if that is the advantage of m43s and I would not have such a cam, I would not miss it.

Otherwise the two formats exist long enough now that almost everyone is aware if their respective pro's and cons, no reason to reiterate them for me.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top