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Nikon's egregious focus stacking and timelapse

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sunnycal

sunnycal

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Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.

In the same way, timelapse forces users to fly blind. You have to be dead sure of everything before you start a multi hour timelapse. There is no way to see if things are progressing as expected and to stop and adjust if something is not correct. Taking timelapse on a moving platform is an exercise in frustration.

I don't know who advised nikon on this implementation but it is just so frustrating that I may have to get another camera system for these features because of this.

I would like to know how other nikon users feel about this and if there is a hidden feature that that I am missing.
 
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sunnycal said:
In the same way, timelapse forces users to fly blind. You have to be dead sure of everything before you start a multi hour timelapse. There is no way to see if things are progressing as expected and to stop and adjust if something is not correct. Taking timelapse on a moving platform is an exercise in frustration.
Click to expand...
Another annoying part is that if your interval timer shooting gets interrupted, you likely won't get any reason why it went wrong! Had a few multi-day timelapses get ruined by this. And it wasn't my settings (probably), since I would just restart the timelapse with the exact same settings and that run would run to completion.
 
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But surely for a focus stacked image you have to frame your subject and shoot in manual.

For another shoot or image change you just repeat.

I know when my focus stacked has finished because the viewfinder lights up.

Thats all I know because I have shot with anything but Nikon.
 
backayonder said:
But surely for a focus stacked image you have to frame your subject and shoot in manual.
Click to expand...
When combined with time lapse - a tripod is often a necessity for good results

When time lapse is not needed (often the way I shoot) 25 shots can take under 3 seconds.

--

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.
 
backayonder said:
But surely for a focus stacked image you have to frame your subject and shoot in manual.

For another shoot or image change you just repeat.

I know when my focus stacked has finished because the viewfinder lights up.

Thats all I know because I have shot with anything but Nikon.
Click to expand...
The point is not that it can't be done. The point it is that it is illogical and inconvenient.

Imagine if your shutter button was inside some menu instead of on your finger? That is what Nikon has done for these features. You don't start shooting with shutter button, you do it by going into menus, and select start from there. The VF blackout is not that big of an issue in focus stack (but still, why? what purpose does Nikon think it serves) as in Time lapse.

Besides even in focus stack, on other cameras, I can see the focus shift in real time and know if my setup is working or not before I complete a 30-50 shot set and scroll through the images.
 
I agree with you. Have you written Nikon to suggest a better way?

I have not, yet - and that is dumb. I should have started a campaign on this years ago.
 
I use focus stacking with a z7 and 105 MC in my test lab quite often to image failed parts. Often doing 10 or 20 at a time. Really it's the only thing I use that camera for.

Frankly, I've never really had a big issue with it. Focus stacks aren't something I'm running and gunning while doing, so yhe procedure is a non-issue to me. I set up the tripod, test subject and lights, manual focus to the starting point, press the menu button then setup the stack parameters. Usually I'm adjusting the number of frames for stack depth as needed.

Then I wait for the little green light to stop blinking and the display to start displaying an image again.

I have the focus stack set to My Menu so I don't have to hunt for it when I want to use it.
 
sunnycal said:
Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.
Click to expand...
If you put focus shift as your top 'My Menu' item and assign a Fn button to perform the top 'My Menu' item then you can trigger a focus shift operation with just two button presses - the Fn button you assigned followed by "Ok". This isn't the same as the 'focus shift' shooting mode you're asking for but considering it's only one more button press than a shutter click, and that it doesn't require actually looking at the menu/screen while doing so, it's not too different than a separate mode in practical terms.
 
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I use focus stacking with a z7 and 105 MC in my test lab quite often to image failed parts. Often doing 10 or 20 at a time. Really it's the only thing I use that camera for.

Frankly, I've never really had a big issue with it. Focus stacks aren't something I'm running and gunning while doing, so yhe procedure is a non-issue to me. I set up the tripod, test subject and lights, manual focus to the starting point, press the menu button then setup the stack parameters. Usually I'm adjusting the number of frames for stack depth as needed.

Then I wait for the little green light to stop blinking and the display to start displaying an image again.

I have the focus stack set to My Menu so I don't have to hunt for it when I want to use it.

I agree with Suntan in that I'm happy with how Nikon's focus stacking works for me on the Z50II. I primarily do jewelry product and jury shots. The camera is on a tripod so framing adjustments are made as necessary. I always use the monitor screen with an Optivisor for framing and focus. I set the AF to manual for focusing and the exposure test shot, then shift it back to AF for the focus stacking series. The number of shots varies between 3 and 15 depending on the total depth of field I need. I set the Interval to 5 seconds which allows for both the flashes recharging and a couple seconds to see how the focus is progressing in the review image. Once the furthest point comes into focus I stop the series manually. First Frame Exposure Lock is set to Off as is Electronic Shutter as otherwise the flash won't work. As I have groups of similar items to photograph I don't have to change my basic framing frequently. I have Focus Stacking in the iMenu which is much easier to access than the My Menu on the Z50. In fact, almost everything I ever need from the menus I have loaded onto the iMenu. I've never tried Timelapse so cannot speak to that feature.
 
1.) An option to set the endpoint and the camera calculating the number of shots plus 1 frame on end needed for the specified step size, focal length, and aperture setting.

2. An option for the stacking to be done in-camera when shooting JPEGs.

3. With cameras like the Z6III that also have pixel shift, the ability to incorporate that with focus-shifting

I don't really have opinions about time-lapse as I use the LRTimelapse LRTimelapse PRO Timer https://lrtimelapse.com/lrtpt/ asa intervalometer and LRTimelapse processing software https://lrtimelapse.com/download/

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
I am on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio
If you like my question or response, please give a thumbs up. My ego needs the strokes.
 
Last edited:
Horshack said:
sunnycal said:
Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.
Click to expand...
If you put focus shift as your top 'My Menu' item and assign a Fn button to perform the top 'My Menu' item then you can trigger a focus shift operation with just two button presses - the Fn button you assigned followed by "Ok". This isn't the same as the 'focus shift' shooting mode you're asking for but considering it's only one more button press than a shutter click, and that it doesn't require actually looking at the menu/screen while doing so, it's not too different than a separate mode in practical terms.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip!
 
If you're in a studio with your camera on a tripod the Nikon system is a bit awkward but serviceable. But being able to set your focus stack settings once, and start a new stack with a shutter press, more things become possible.

For instance, hand-held (no tripod) stacks of stationary or intermittently moving subjects in the field. This is quite possible on other systems.
 
f16falcona46 said:
Another annoying part is that if your interval timer shooting gets interrupted, you likely won't get any reason why it went wrong! Had a few multi-day timelapses get ruined by this. And it wasn't my settings (probably), since I would just restart the timelapse with the exact same settings and that run would run to completion.
Click to expand...
What camera please and how are you powering it?

I've had similar with a dummy battery and power bank, but not from a dummy battery and mains power, so I'm guessing a power glitch?

Can you remember, when it stopped, was it paused (did the menu have the "resume" option)?

One other question you may be able to help with please... if you have a model that can be powered over USB (I'm on a Z50 which cannot), if you disconnect the USB power while the timelapse is running, reverting to the internal battery, does it interrupt the timelapse?
 
Why doesn't NX studio handle focus stacking ? That's just as big of an ommission?
 
Suntan said:
I use focus stacking with a z7 and 105 MC in my test lab quite often to image failed parts. Often doing 10 or 20 at a time. Really it's the only thing I use that camera for.

Frankly, I've never really had a big issue with it. Focus stacks aren't something I'm running and gunning while doing, so yhe procedure is a non-issue to me. I set up the tripod, test subject and lights, manual focus to the starting point, press the menu button then setup the stack parameters. Usually I'm adjusting the number of frames for stack depth as needed.

Then I wait for the little green light to stop blinking and the display to start displaying an image again.

I have the focus stack set to My Menu so I don't have to hunt for it when I want to use it.
Click to expand...
I agree. I have done focus stacks of up to 250 images on my nikon D850 and up to 140 images on my Zf. Hundreds of times. After figuring out how it works it is not hard at all. Load the images into LR, throw out the stack images I don't want, send to the Helicon plug-in, stack, finish in LR. Not hard.

I don't do time lapses, so I cannot speak to that.
 
> Focus stacks aren't something I'm running and gunning while doing, so yhe procedure is a non-issue to me.

Fair enough, if you're working in a studio, on a tripod with complete control of the lighting. In that situation Nikon's implementation is just a minimal bit of extra work.

But with other systems running and gunning is a regular use case. Chasing insects in the woods, lighting with on camera flash with purpose-built macro diffusers, you can do stacking handheld and get 10-15+ usable images. The few extra steps on the Nikon system will make a big difference in that case.
 
sunnycal said:
Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.

In the same way, timelapse forces users to fly blind. You have to be dead sure of everything before you start a multi hour timelapse. There is no way to see if things are progressing as expected and to stop and adjust if something is not correct. Taking timelapse on a moving platform is an exercise in frustration.

I don't know who advised nikon on this implementation but it is just so frustrating that I may have to get another camera system for these features because of this.

I would like to know how other nikon users feel about this and if there is a hidden feature that that I am missing.
Click to expand...
Finally! Someone voices out the flaws of the focus stacking and interval shooting modes of the current Nikon Z cameras.

These are some of my current frustrations when shooting landscapes with Nikon cameras. I shot a timelapse of sunset in Patagonia and because I was unable to see what was happening (the screen was in black) and my highlights of my frame were blown out. So it ruined the video that I wanted to create. Even the exposure was correct at the beginning, the change of highlights resulted in blown up highlights as the sun went down further.

Also I do a lot of hand-held focus stacking as its hard to place a tripod in some areas. It is painful to do focus stacking with Nikon cameras because I have to make sure neither my body nor my hands moves by an inch after pressing the "start" button in the menu. I dont understand why Z8 (ironically having a fast expeed 7) has to spend a few seconds to prepare before firing a burst of the photos.

i tried Canon's and Sony's cameras - I only had to press the shutter button and they just fired the shots instantly. No such hassles like Nikon.

Nikon, please give us (1) a instant live view of the exposure level in interval shooting mode and (2) a quick option that does focus stacking without any slowdowns
 
Last edited:
Horshack said:
sunnycal said:
Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.
Click to expand...
If you put focus shift as your top 'My Menu' item and assign a Fn button to perform the top 'My Menu' item then you can trigger a focus shift operation with just two button presses - the Fn button you assigned followed by "Ok". This isn't the same as the 'focus shift' shooting mode you're asking for but considering it's only one more button press than a shutter click, and that it doesn't require actually looking at the menu/screen while doing so, it's not too different than a separate mode in practical terms.
Click to expand...
This is how I do it, but still having to wait for seconds for the camera to prepare to fire the shots is very inconvenient in the situations when I must use hand-held focus stacking in the field.
 
Jeff_0000 said:
sunnycal said:
Nikon's implementation of these function is simply inverse of what logic would dictate.

When I (and pretty much every other user) want to use any of these functions, I expect to put camera in the appropriate mode (focus stacked or timelapse), adjust the framing and exposure, and start. This is also how every other camera brand works.

Not so with nikon. User will have to adjust framing and exposure beforehand, then go to menus, setup the function parameters, and then start within the menus. The screen/viewfinder will go blank and camera will start doing its thing, while the user is sitting there not knowing what is happening and if the setting and framing are still correct and have not moved.

If I have to do focus stacking on 25 different products, I have to do this 25 times. I can not just set the camera in certain mode, then go back to normal controls and take 1 or take 100 stacks with the same stack settings.

In the same way, timelapse forces users to fly blind. You have to be dead sure of everything before you start a multi hour timelapse. There is no way to see if things are progressing as expected and to stop and adjust if something is not correct. Taking timelapse on a moving platform is an exercise in frustration.

I don't know who advised nikon on this implementation but it is just so frustrating that I may have to get another camera system for these features because of this.

I would like to know how other nikon users feel about this and if there is a hidden feature that that I am missing.
Click to expand...
Finally! Someone voices out the flaws of the focus stacking and interval shooting modes of the current Nikon Z cameras.

These are some of my current frustrations when shooting landscapes with Nikon cameras. I shot a timelapse of sunset in Patagonia and because I was unable to see what was happening (the screen was in black) and my highlights of my frame were blown out. So it ruined the video that I wanted to create. Even the exposure was correct at the beginning, the change of highlights resulted in blown up highlights as the sun went down further.

Also I do a lot of hand-held focus stacking as its hard to place a tripod in some areas. It is painful to do focus stacking with Nikon cameras because I have to make sure neither my body nor my hands moves by an inch after pressing the "start" button in the menu. I dont understand why Z8 (ironically having a fast expeed 7) has to spend a few seconds to prepare before firing a burst of the photos.

i tried Canon's and Sony's cameras - I only had to press the shutter button and they just fired the shots instantly. No such hassles like Nikon.

Nikon, please give us (1) a instant live view of the exposure level in interval shooting mode and (2) a quick option that does focus stacking without any slowdowns
Click to expand...
I sent your post to Nikon in Facebook and Instagram.

Hopefully they will become concerned with it and take follow up actions.

(Although i am not too hopeful as we still dont have pre-caprure raw photos which is asked by many folks. They still dare to introduce pre-caprure jpegs only in the newest Z5ii🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬)
 
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