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Is the GFX100RF's incredible sensor wasted on mediocre glass?

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The topic being photographed that renders whether a photograph is special to us.

Without a topic to photograph what would we photograph.
Sherman90 said:
I have to say, as far as special rendering is concerned, the Q2M is a model. Insane image quality. Have not tried the Q3 43 but I've heard it on good authority that the APO lens is next level.
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Sigma Merrill DP1 DP2 DP3 released 2012 have a rendering perhaps unique in digital compact with built in lens, when utilised within their capabilities.

My choice for my photography would be a Sigma Merrill compact before Leica Q Q2 Q2M Q3. Also probably before 100Rf.

I had original DP1 DP2 compacts released 2008.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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The lens is NOT mediocre and is at same level as the GF 20-35/4.I have the camera in use now for 3 full weeks!
 
Sherman90 said:
I've run through all the reading/YouTube promo videos. Kudos to Fuji for building a relatively small medium format P&S. I don't care about IBIS or F4. The real nagging doubt in my head is: the lens is just mediocre. Sure you can zoom in, but the rendering is meh. It may as well be APSC because I can hardly tell the difference. This is the real bottleneck on what is otherwise a fantastic system.

Am I wrong?
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Yes
 
I am sure the lens designers at Fuji took everything into account, after all, they are acknowledged to be amongst the best lens designers/manufactures in the World.

Perhaps they decided it would be pointless to design, and build, a "carry anywhere/travel camera" and then stick a four or five inch heavy lens on the front because ultimate quality only comes with lots of glass elements and that means weight and size.

Maybe an argument could be made for a 50mp sensor version.... but that is a different matter.
Jeff Biscuits said:
Well, you could turn the corrections off and then you’ve got some significant barrel distortion and falloff to enjoy 🙂

I’m not sure that rendering with bags of character would suit this camera: it needs to be pretty consistent across all the crops of varying size and shape, for a start. A more neutral rendering seems the right decision IMO.

I’ve got the 50R with adapted 35mm lenses if I want character, anyway 😉
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Rob de Loe said:
Sherman90 said:
I have to say, as far as special rendering is concerned, the Q2M is a model. Insane image quality. Have not tried the Q3 43 but I've heard it on good authority that the APO lens is next level.
Click to expand...
Serious question here.... what do you mean when you say "special rendering"?
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The Leica photos has a wow factor. Meaning they stand out and looks great.

The RF photos I've seen so far looks very ordinary like they could have been taken with any camera.
 
SrMi said:
boastar said:
Sherman90 said:
I've run through all the reading/YouTube promo videos. Kudos to Fuji for building a relatively small medium format P&S. I don't care about IBIS or F4. The real nagging doubt in my head is: the lens is just mediocre. Sure you can zoom in, but the rendering is meh. It may as well be APSC because I can hardly tell the difference. This is the real bottleneck on what is otherwise a fantastic system.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
In general, I agree. It’s a mediocre lens. I didn’t miss stabilization too much when testing the camera, but the slow and mediocre lens takes a lot from the 100mp sensors shine.

i wrote about the camera, and specifically the lens, in comparison to other compacts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68237102

I would have preferred a slightly less compact, but optically better, and faster lens.
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Trying out the camera at a store is not a proper test.
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We didn’t test the camera “at a store”. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
 
SrMi said:
Noddemix said:
SrMi said:
boastar said:
Sherman90 said:
I've run through all the reading/YouTube promo videos. Kudos to Fuji for building a relatively small medium format P&S. I don't care about IBIS or F4. The real nagging doubt in my head is: the lens is just mediocre. Sure you can zoom in, but the rendering is meh. It may as well be APSC because I can hardly tell the difference. This is the real bottleneck on what is otherwise a fantastic system.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
In general, I agree. It’s a mediocre lens. I didn’t miss stabilization too much when testing the camera, but the slow and mediocre lens takes a lot from the 100mp sensors shine.

i wrote about the camera, and specifically the lens, in comparison to other compacts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68237102

I would have preferred a slightly less compact, but optically better, and faster lens.
Click to expand...
Trying out the camera at a store is not a proper test.
Click to expand...
That's not what happened though.
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"A couple of days ago, I got to test these cameras with a group of other photographers at a bigger store in Germany, after their normal hours. It was a private event for good customers of that store. We had a couple of hours with the cameras, ranging from daylight, to a while after sunset, and then a few of us took it to the place of one of the participants, to view and discuss the results."

Still not a proper test, in my book.
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A group of professional photographers jointly testing the camera for a couple of hours, and then discussing the results, is much more of a proper test in my book, then 99% of the “tests” that get published and discussed on the internet. It’s not an optical bench test, or anything like that, but a results based test.

I value the opinion and expertise of those guys a lot. While I couldn’t care less if you think it’s a proper test or not.

Edit: and yes I’m aware that I’m also just a random guy on the internet in this context here, because I want to stay anonymous. That’s the nature of message boards, and I’m glad they still exist.
 
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boastar said:
Substantially can mean different things though. Maybe they think 1cm is substantial. Or the 3mm that they said implementing ibis would have added.
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You didn't apparently see everything they said. They said IBIS would have added 3mm to the body, which was acceptable to them.


It was the lens that would have gotten substantially bigger in order to allow the lens to cover the full sensor to account for the IBIS movements. It was this increased size that convinced their designers/engineers that IBIS was "a bridge too far" for this camera. They had almost certainly made the same calculation about making the lens faster.

There was a video from Fuji about this problem. They said clearly that they prioritized the size in order to have a unique product.
boastar said:
We won’t know, but my reference point are the longer and faster lenses of the Leica Q. I would have preferred something like that, or at least a 2.8 lens.
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[No message]
 
UsherFellig said:
It's a medium format, 28mm equivalent tripod camera. Everybody wants to pretend it's a walkaround X100VI or a handheld zoom. Contrary to myth, the Fuji Texas Leica, the Pentax 67s, the Hassie Vs, only occasionally produce stellar results walkin' around no matter how spiffy their lenses may be.
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As an owner of a Texas Leica for 20+ years, I beg to differ.
UsherFellig said:
This is that type of a camera, on a tripod, using the full MF sensor at 28mm equivalent. Everybody was warned in advance, they just didn't want to listen. Those who don't care are loving it as a handheld FF, APSC, m43 zoom, and that's great for them. Those who do care might think about showing it some respect, plunking it onto a tripod, and letting stretch its wings and fly.
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First of all, I think you are being rather dogmatic about this (and you're not the only one). I also sense more than a little condescension in your comment above, which is quite unnecessary.
 
boastar said:
tex said:
boastar said:
I would have preferred a slightly less compact, but optically better, and faster lens.
Click to expand...
According to Fuji, it wouldn't have been slightly less compact, but substantially less. And it was all about the lens size, not the body size.
Click to expand...
Substantially can mean different things though. Maybe they think 1cm is substantial. Or the 3mm that they said implementing ibis would have added. We won’t know, but my reference point are the longer and faster lenses of the Leica Q. I would have preferred something like that, or at least a 2.8 lens.
Click to expand...
I definitely wouldn't buy the 100RF if the lens was big, which is inevitable with a 2.8 aperture. Why would I need such a camera if its weight/size would be the same as a 100s II with lens or an X2D+38v?
 
Hi,

However, boxes *love* it. Such as the ones for insurance and certain medical tests....

And computers. Anyone recall the Banana Jr? :P

Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer
 
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tex said:
boastar said:
Substantially can mean different things though. Maybe they think 1cm is substantial. Or the 3mm that they said implementing ibis would have added.
Click to expand...
You didn't apparently see everything they said. They said IBIS would have added 3mm to the body, which was acceptable to them.

It was the lens that would have gotten substantially bigger in order to allow the lens to cover the full sensor to account for the IBIS movements. It was this increased size that convinced their designers/engineers that IBIS was "a bridge too far" for this camera. They had almost certainly made the same calculation about making the lens faster.

There was a video from Fuji about this problem. They said clearly that they prioritized the size in order to have a unique product.
tex said:
We won’t know, but my reference point are the longer and faster lenses of the Leica Q. I would have preferred something like that, or at least a 2.8 lens.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
SeeingSomeThingsMissingMany said:
Sigma Merrill DP1 DP2 DP3 released 2012 have a rendering perhaps unique in digital compact with built in lens, when utilised within their capabilities.

My choice for my photography would be a Sigma Merrill compact before Leica Q Q2 Q2M Q3. Also probably before 100Rf.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't. And I haven't completely abandoned Foveon. I'm having a lens delivered for my SD15 tomorrow...
 
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blåland said:
Rob de Loe said:
Sherman90 said:
I have to say, as far as special rendering is concerned, the Q2M is a model. Insane image quality. Have not tried the Q3 43 but I've heard it on good authority that the APO lens is next level.
Click to expand...
Serious question here.... what do you mean when you say "special rendering"?
Click to expand...
The Leica photos has a wow factor. Meaning they stand out and looks great.

The RF photos I've seen so far looks very ordinary like they could have been taken with any camera.
Click to expand...
IMO I've not seen the wow factor in the Leica Q3 or the previous Q2 I owned. However, I definitely did experience the WOW factor the first time I encountered the 100mp sensor. But that is one person's opinion.
 
DavidMillier said:
SeeingSomeThingsMissingMany said:
Sigma Merrill DP1 DP2 DP3 released 2012 have a rendering perhaps unique in digital compact with built in lens, when utilised within their capabilities.

My choice for my photography would be a Sigma Merrill compact before Leica Q Q2 Q2M Q3. Also probably before 100Rf.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't. And I haven't completely abandoned Foveon. I'm having a lens delivered for my SD15 tomorrow...
Click to expand...
If 100Rf is marmite, then Merrills are probably even more marmite lol. At least you still have a Foveon camera.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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boastar said:
tex said:
boastar said:
Substantially can mean different things though. Maybe they think 1cm is substantial. Or the 3mm that they said implementing ibis would have added.
Click to expand...
You didn't apparently see everything they said. They said IBIS would have added 3mm to the body, which was acceptable to them.

It was the lens that would have gotten substantially bigger in order to allow the lens to cover the full sensor to account for the IBIS movements. It was this increased size that convinced their designers/engineers that IBIS was "a bridge too far" for this camera. They had almost certainly made the same calculation about making the lens faster.

There was a video from Fuji about this problem. They said clearly that they prioritized the size in order to have a unique product.
boastar said:
We won’t know, but my reference point are the longer and faster lenses of the Leica Q. I would have preferred something like that, or at least a 2.8 lens.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I’ve been over this with someone else allready. And yes, I know that obviously they said ibis would add 3mm to the body. Where else would I have gotten that number.

The argument about ibis and the lens, I’m not sure I fully buy this. Looking at the tiny Hasselblad p lenses, those fully cover the extraordinary ibis of the X2D without any problems. The 28p is just 43mm long, of which some vanishes into the body in a fixed lens camera. And weighs only 245g.
Click to expand...
I wonder how much additional coverage IBIS requires. Assuming my math is correct, 1% more coverage on the diagonal would add ~ +- 70 pixels of coverage. This gives a lens volume delta of ~ (1.01)^3 - 1 = 3%.

Sometimes ‘engineering’ statements come from marketing or other departments.
 
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